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The 1.3 Turbo Battle####

Locking up brakes is a piece of piss even on a standard car, even with semi slicks... Doesn't mean bigger brakes are pointless as they deal with heat dissipation better, but aren't always necessary
 
Enuo said:
I'm not saying that, I'm saying if you can lock up your brakes your braking force is adaquate already. Larger brakes will brake more efficiently yes but there is a balance between extra rotating mass and braking effort. Rally tyres are also probably a much softer compound, and I bet 185 is a gravel tyre and you'd use much wider tyres on a tarmac stage.
What I'm saying is the size is a compromise and I personally don't believe the extra diameter is worth the reduction in acceleration but thats my opinion. Personally I won't be going bigger than my 247's because I think they're more than enough as is.
Click to expand...
Judging your braking force by locking up wheels is still daft. That just means you can stop the wheels from rotating, so that's too much force for the unsprung weight (lighter wheels easier lock up). When the aim of the brakes is to bring the entire vehicles weight to a stop... that's why using wheel lock up as a guide is daft.
More weight means more frictional force required
Higher speed, higher g force = higher weight to stop
 
SirChris said:
@pollyp yeah been reading through, i dont know if you gave up with them. Or if anyone knows if the sunny, pulsar and the 100nx all used the same ones. figured you would be the best person to know this #### lol. I need pads and rotors soon, can you reccomend any?
also did you get any good pads and disks for the rear?
Click to expand...

I've been using it ever since fitted back in 2010.
all the required info is indexed through my blog, suppose I have to summerise it for everyone.

Calipers
here I rebuild the calipers
http://micra.org.uk/threads/pollymobiles-rebuild.35251/page-3#post-395713

Pedals
it can be used with standard master cylinder but the longer pedal travel will require a slight readjustment of the pedals so the throttle pedal is as low as possible and the brake pedal rests as high as it safely can.
http://micra.org.uk/threads/pollymobiles-rebuild.35251/page-3#post-396172

Discs
the GTIR disc hub is 60.5mm while the k11 is 58.8mm
http://micra.org.uk/threads/pollymobiles-rebuild.35251/page-3#post-396604

so I layered some ducktap on the hub to take up the slack and keep the disc centered and reduce vibration
http://micra.org.uk/threads/pollymobiles-rebuild.35251/page-4#post-396800

currently using the black diamond grooved discs
http://micra.org.uk/threads/pollymobiles-rebuild.35251/page-53#post-514095

they require machining down to 253mm to clear the calipers
http://micra.org.uk/threads/pollymobiles-rebuild.35251/page-53#post-515275

Pads
I'm using black diamond fast track predator pads. great bite during cold normal driving and when hot on track it really tears ur face.
http://micra.org.uk/threads/pollymobiles-rebuild.35251/page-6#post-407583

with standard rear discs I'm using black diamond fast road rear pads
http://micra.org.uk/threads/pollymobiles-rebuild.35251/page-7#post-409127
 
Last edited:
pollyp said:
I've been using it ever since fitted back in 2010.
all the required info is indexed through my blog, suppose I have to summerise it for everyone.

Calipers
here I rebuild the calipers
http://micra.org.uk/threads/pollymobiles-rebuild.35251/page-3#post-395713

Pedals
it can be used with standard master cylinder but the longer pedal travel will require a slight readjustment of the pedals so the throttle pedal is as low as possible and the brake pedal rests as high as it safely can.
http://micra.org.uk/threads/pollymobiles-rebuild.35251/page-3#post-396172

Discs
the GTIR disc hub is 60.5mm while the k11 is 58.8mm
http://micra.org.uk/threads/pollymobiles-rebuild.35251/page-3#post-396604

so I layered some ducktap on the hub to take up the slack and keep the disc centered and reduce vibration
http://micra.org.uk/threads/pollymobiles-rebuild.35251/page-4#post-396800

currently using the black diamond grooved discs
http://micra.org.uk/threads/pollymobiles-rebuild.35251/page-53#post-514095

they require machining down to 253mm to clear the calipers
http://micra.org.uk/threads/pollymobiles-rebuild.35251/page-53#post-515275

Pads
I'm using black diamond fast track predator pads. great bite during cold normal driving and when hot on track it really tares ur face.
http://micra.org.uk/threads/pollymobiles-rebuild.35251/page-6#post-407583

with standard rear discs I'm using black diamond fast road rear pads
http://micra.org.uk/threads/pollymobiles-rebuild.35251/page-7#post-409127
Click to expand...

Paul you make me feel guilty everytime I talk to you on another thread.... you love showing off ur build threads.. dont lie :D I am only giving you a vent for your info
 
@pollyp. whats your opinion on this all. AND btw i did read through your blog before you commented. I just didnt know if you had changed since, or missed it,
 
SirChris said:
Paul you make me feel guilty everytime I talk to you on another thread.... you love showing off ur build threads.. dont lie :D I am only giving you a vent for your info
Click to expand...

my blog is there to provide ppl with info of my past experiences and I like to help ppl by referring direct links related to a specific topic which might be useful to them in avoiding the same mistakes cos I've been there
 
SirChris said:
@pollyp. whats your opinion on this all. AND btw i did read through your blog before you commented. I just didnt know if you had changed since, or missed it,
Click to expand...

conclude it all works fine for normal street driving.
dunno how much performance advantage grooved discs are on track compared to solid vented discs but they really chew up my pads on track so tbh next time I'd get some normal vented discs for durability.
rear brakes don't do much work so just stock pads will do imo.

would be nice to upgrade the master cyl cos the travel increases with temp on trackdays but I can't be bothered and just settle with double pumping the pedal for more firmness.
in normal driving, the bite point of the cooler brakes is shorter so it works fine.
 
Drilled/grooved discs only have an advantage in rally tbh where they're constantly covered in water/mud/dirt etc and it needs somewhere to escape
 
pollyp said:
conclude it all works fine for normal street driving.
dunno how much performance advantage grooved discs are on track compared to solid vented discs but they really chew up my pads on track so tbh next time I'd get some normal vented discs for durability.
rear brakes don't do much work so just stock pads will do imo.

would be nice to upgrade the master cyl cos the travel increases with temp on trackdays but I can't be bothered and just settle with double pumping the pedal for more firmness.
in normal driving, the bite point of the cooler brakes is shorter so it works fine.
Click to expand...
The double pumping in my eyes is a safety issue, I don't know why, I just don't feel comfortable pumping for brakes :D
 
SirChris said:
Drilled and grooved to look lovely. Drilled scare me, rust and cracking.
Click to expand...
Drilled is hit and miss. Good drilled discs are fine (they can still crack dont get me wrong). My brother has run black diamond drilled/grooved discs on his rx7 for 3 years now (still only on one set of discs) they have lasted many track days and spirited road driving with no cracks so far.

I will always swear by black diamond.
 
mas12555 said:
Drilled is hit and miss. Good drilled discs are fine (they can still crack dont get me wrong). My brother has run black diamond drilled/grooved discs on his rx7 for 3 years now (still only on one set of discs) they have lasted many track days and spirited road driving with no cracks so far.

I will always swear by black diamond.
Click to expand...
He also doesn't drive it very often? Could that be a factor, possibly less wet weather seen?
 
mas12555 said:
It was a daily car from 2008ish-2013. He has just got a new daily car so he doesnt have to waste fuel driving an rx7 around.
Click to expand...
Hmm so it has seen daily wear. Must be manufacture then. I just see it as drilling would allow more rust and possibly odd expansion under heat.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
 
h701micra said:
Instant cooling is what cracks em but a rarity.
You'll be fine with drilled. If not I'd go dimpled
Click to expand...
Suppose. I think with Polly's experiance of brake wear and pads wearing fast I may stick solid. Cause if it wears for him I dread to think what my driving style would do to them lol.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
 
h701micra said:
Instant cooling is what cracks em but a rarity.
You'll be fine with drilled. If not I'd go dimpled
Click to expand...
Thats it mate. Going from a hot braking situation then going through a deep old puddle. Crack. They say that if you get discs that are cast with the holes in that they are alot less likly to crask as discs which are drilled get hair line fractures in the drilling process.
 
SirChris said:
Suppose. I think with Polly's experiance of brake wear and pads wearing fast I may stick solid. Cause if it wears for him I dread to think what my driving style would do to them lol.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
The grooves are there to deglaze pads
And holes to expel brake dust, water, mud etc etc. On a road car they're not necessary :)
Nothing wrong with solid discs whatsoever
mas12555 said:
Thats it mate. Going from a hot braking situation then going through a deep old puddle. Crack. They say that if you get discs that are cast with the holes in that they are alot less likly to crask as discs which are drilled get hair line fractures in the drilling process.
Click to expand...
Yes and no. Its not how the holes are made that's the issue. Its the fact the hole is a small stress point on the disc
SirChris said:
Yeah the going through puddles thing lol

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Gotta be a good deep one :p fords are the best ones ;)
 
Drilled discs can crack because they are sand cast and then machined. Sand casting leaves a LOT of internal stresses in the metal. Machining relieves stress in some areas but not in others and can focus stresses in some areas particularly near machined features. More expensive discs may have some sort of heat treatment to remove stresses and prevent cracking under rapid cooling.
 
SirChris said:
The double pumping in my eyes is a safety issue, I don't know why, I just don't feel comfortable pumping for brakes :D
Click to expand...

on first pump the brakes work alright so its not an issue. its just that my leg is abit extended so can't push as hard. when I double pump, the bite point is higher up so my leg can exert more force.
this is only under track stress where the brakes get real hot.

if ur only using it on road its perfectly fine.
 
SirChris said:
Suppose. I think with Polly's experiance of brake wear and pads wearing fast I may stick solid. Cause if it wears for him I dread to think what my driving style would do to them lol.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

my rapid brake wear is cos I push them on track and the grooved disc may offer great performance but at a cost of even faster wear.

if its only used on street then its fine but in that situation u may as well just stick to vented solids tbh
 
pollyp said:
yep but imo cba to spend anymore time n money n work in upgrading minor things and just adapt to it :D
Click to expand...
Minor... Paul.. That is pure bollocks. You are the king of minor and everything which follows after lol

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
 
SirChris said:
Minor... Paul.. That is pure bollocks. You ate the king of minor and everything which follows after lol

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

tis minor cos it still works perfectly fine.
when the brakes cold on road the bite point is just where I want it level with the throttle.
when it red hot on track the bite is slightly below the throttle as things get spongy and just reapplying the brake is not a prob.
since most the time its a daily car n works fine, it ain't worth my effort to work on it at this time n just deal with it.
 
h701micra said:
I've got a skyline gtst master cylinder, no double pumping required :)
Click to expand...

is it a 4-output ABS version like on mine?

straight fit onto bulkhead & pedals and slight change of plumbing?

one day when I have the engine out and the time n money, I may consider changing the braking system to finally resolve it :cool:
 
pollyp said:
is it a 4-output ABS version like on mine?

straight fit onto bulkhead & pedals and slight change of plumbing?

one day when I have the engine out and the time n money, I may consider changing the braking system to finally resolve it :cool:
Click to expand...
Only 2 I'm afraid on the side. You can get 4 port ones but they're more expensive

It bolted straight to the K10 servo no touble. Same M10x1.0 thread. So I little re-bend of the pipework and jobs a goodun. Its a simple job Paul :)
 
I feel my brakes just are not solid if that makes sense? Also I wonder if the rear disks can be swapped from the rear gtir setup
 
skymera said:
Wouldn't this require a lot of work with perhaps master cylinder etc?

I've got vented 283mm discs on the 'Vic and tbh they feel less responsive than my K11!
Click to expand...
Yes but we still need to renew the brake fluid on da Vic. That will makes Huge difference
 

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