SU carbed k10

[MicrAde]

Don't wanna be a killjoy but doing a blowthrough could end up costing 5x the cost of a drawthrough. If budget is no problem then go blowthrough for definite. Reason I was looking at drawthrough was cost, I reckoned on a build cost of maybe 200 quid, as I've said before I'm a tight arsed yorkshireman

 

[padraicR]

Don't wanna be a killjoy but doing a blowthrough could end up costing 5x the cost of a drawthrough. If budget is no problem then go blowthrough for definite. Reason I was looking at drawthrough was cost, I reckoned on a build cost of maybe 200 quid, as I've said before I'm a tight arsed yorkshireman

id love to do draw thru simply because its so different, but the thoughts of explosions seems nasty , turboing is risky enough as it is , isn't intercooler and extra piping the only real added cost ? i can make plenum myself ?

 

[MicrAde]

You need to sort fuelling also, on boost enrichment etc. Metro turbo carb is rocking horse poo and priced accordingly. None of that with drawthrough. Guess I may have to get another k10 and do a drawthrough setup just because

 

[padraicR]

but the metro turbo uses a hif44 also ? same as mine ? so unless they've modded the carb i should have the same?

 

[h701micra]

Yup ! If i manage to im sure i can pull a turbo from a breakers yard , now , with this set up , not needing carbon sealed , will turbos from diesel cars work ? I presume so ? Isnt pork uding the td04 turbo ?

Yea a td04 is a common turbo on subarus and saabs etc. They're a petrol turbo.
I prefer to avoid diesel turbos as their performance is limited. But something in my head is saying no dont use a diesel one

 

[l_jonez]

From years of playing with minis I'm fairly sure you can convert a normal HIFF44 to a turbo carb, I'm sure the only difference is a seal, either remove or insert can't remember which way around it is.

 

[MicrAde]

Not all hif44 su's are sealed for blowthrough, though iirc they can be converted with turbo Su rebuild kit

 

[h701micra]

From years of playing with minis I'm fairly sure you can convert a normal HIFF44 to a turbo carb, I'm sure the only difference is a seal, either remove or insert can't remember which way around it is.

Insert a seal

Not all hif44 su's are sealed for blowthrough, though iirc they can be converted with turbo Su rebuild kit

And thats how

 

[padraicR]

EDIT: COMPLETLY WRONG PICTURE

 

[padraicR]

straight from the horse itself turbo seal kit :
http://sucarb.co.uk/turbo-seal-kit-hif44.html

 

[h701micra]

Correct. You may need bowl floats too iirc

 

[MicrAde]

Bit more to it than that
http://www.mgexp.com/article/how-to-blow-through-an-su.html

 

[MicrAde]

You're welcome

 

[h701micra]

Bit more to it than that
http://www.mgexp.com/article/how-to-blow-through-an-su.html

You thoroughly researched this didnt you

 

[MicrAde]

You thoroughly researched this didnt you

I said I had looked into it

 

[padraicR]

Damn! thanks ade,
Ade, has this well looked into before and knows draw thru is simpler , i suppose its a matter of budget!
best thing to do is go ahead with turbo and mani, and figure out the rest in the mean time!

 

[MicrAde]

Damn! thanks ade,
Ade, has this well looked into before and knows draw thru is simpler , i suppose its a matter of budget!
best thing to do is go ahead with turbo and mani, and figure out the rest in the mean time!

As I said, I was looking for cheapness and simplicity and drawthrough would have given me that but admittedly it's not for everybody!

 

[padraicR]

im just a little worried my baby would go bang!

 

[MicrAde]

im just a little worried my baby would go bang!

Nah, be reyt!

 

[padraicR]

in theory, whats to cause damage? the fact that this fuel mix is passing through the turbo and if this were to somehow ignite?

 

[MicrAde]

in theory, whats to cause damage? the fact that this fuel mix is passing through the turbo and if this were to somehow ignite?

Biggest problem is pooling and at least the fuel/air mix is in the 'cool' side of the turbo

 

[Belly93]

i would say so as the turbo gets hot with it being part of the exhaust

 

[h701micra]

To prevent pooling use a swirl tank and a coarse inlet pipe to atomise fuel
Connecting swirl tank to fuel return incase of pooling
The atomising pre turbo is the best way

 

[MicrAde]

To prevent pooling use a swirl tank and a coarse inlet pipe to atomise fuel
Connecting swirl tank to fuel return incase of pooling
The atomising pre turbo is the best way

Or try to keep run lengths as short as possible, preferably with a slight fall ie carb higher than turbo

 

[padraicR]

where would the swirl tank be located? is a diy job acceptable? inlet pipe to the swirl tank?

 

[MicrAde]

where would the swirl tank be located? is a diy job acceptable? inlet pipe to the swirl tank?

Can't help you with that, it wasn't in my plan Cheap and simple remember

 

[padraicR]

well i could make a swirl tank with scrap bits no?

 

[h701micra]

You could
Will fit between filter and turbo

 

[h701micra]

Or try to keep run lengths as short as possible, preferably with a slight fall ie carb higher than turbo

Carb will normally always be above the turbo. You'll still get pooling at low boost and cool smooth air.
Only slight but on a gradual increase through load

 

[MicrAde]

You could
Will fit between filter and turbo

Is that between carb and turbo? Wouldn't that actually promote pooling? Fuel/air mix condensing in the swirl pot??

 

[h701micra]

Yea carb and turbo.. same thing
It should atomise fuel into the air charge before meeting the turbo.
Any pooling can be returned. Whereas in the turbo you cant. Rather in a swirl tank than the turbo

 

[padraicR]

Yea carb and turbo.. same thing
It should atomise fuel into the air charge before meeting the turbo.
Any pooling can be returned. Whereas in the turbo you cant. Rather in a swirl tank than the turbo

so between carb and turbo right?

 

[h701micra]

Yea. You'll want your air fuel mix from the carb atomised before entering the turbo

 

[MicrAde]

Yea carb and turbo.. same thing
It should atomise fuel into the air charge before meeting the turbo.
Any pooling can be returned. Whereas in the turbo you cant. Rather in a swirl tank than the turbo

It might be (and probably is) me being dense but I don't see it. Doesn't the carb atomise the fuel/air? So wouldn't you want this atomised fuel air going into the turbo asap ie carb close to turbo with nothing in between?

 

[Belly93]

It might be (and probably is) me being dense but I don't see it. Doesn't the carb atomise the fuel/air? So wouldn't you want this atomised fuel air going into the turbo asap ie carb close to turbo with nothing in between?

but with th carb being draw through does it not take longer to atomise than it would from an injector?

 

[MicrAde]

but with th carb being draw through does it not take longer to atomise than it would from an injector?

According to an article questioning the demise of carburettors, carbs actually atomise fuel better than injectors. I'll see if I can find it

 

[Belly93]

was just a theory you have done too much research lol

 

[h701micra]

It might be (and probably is) me being dense but I don't see it. Doesn't the carb atomise the fuel/air? So wouldn't you want this atomised fuel air going into the turbo asap ie carb close to turbo with nothing in between?

What you say makes perfect sense and you would.
But if we think about the turbo if its boosting out of one end at say 8 psi. Your inlet will be pulling air in at 8 psi. Carbs arent designed to atomise fuel at that vacuum so a small swirl tank will do what the carb can't
You still work it the same way ie close to and above to. After swirl tank its smooth pipe for speed.
I've no idea if I make sense

 

[MicrAde]

Warren Johnson: Properly tuned, carburetors make more peak power than EFI in a Pro Stock engine. A carb’s pressure differential atomizes the gas a lot better than spraying fuel through an orifice.

Read more: http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/carburetor_vs_injection/#ixzz2VNCvilVH
It's American so probably not true at all! lol

 

[h701micra]

American.. all the gear no idea

 

[MicrAde]

What you say makes perfect sense and you would.
But if we think about the turbo if its boosting out of one end at say 8 psi. Your inlet will be pulling air in at 8 psi. Carbs arent designed to atomise fuel at that vacuum so a small swirl tank will do what the carb can't
You still work it the same way ie close to and above to. After swirl tank its smooth pipe for speed.
I've no idea if I make sense

I can understand a swirl pot working for a liquid ie petrol, but not for a vapour. What would cause the atomisation? I am so not a mechanic btw so don't be too brutal with me, just having a little difficulty getting my old head around it

 

[h701micra]

Ive just skimmed it... I'm guessing thats based on n/a setups?

 

[MicrAde]

Ive just skimmed it... I'm guessing thats based on n/a setups?

Probably but in a drawthrough the carb is in effect NA, it doesn't get pressurised as in a blow through

 

[padraicR]

So supposing the swirl pot is needed, can i keep it up against the turbo so the turbo can still support carb ? Like such?

 

[h701micra]

So supposing the swirl pot is needed, can i keep it up against the turbo so the turbo can still support carb ? Like such?

Sure

 

[h701micra]

Probably but in a drawthrough the carb is in effect NA, it doesn't get pressurised as in a blow through

True but it is under extreme vac?

 

[padraicR]

hmm i can see some sence in ade's theory that its still acting as N/A however i know very little in this field!

 

[padraicR]

if i were to try it using just a turbo first and then if didn't work right design a swirl tank? would any harm be done?

 

[h701micra]

No course not. Its just a way of avoiding pooling in the turbo

 

[padraicR]

how would i know if pooling occurs?