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PollyMobiles Rebuild
- Thread starter pollyp
- Start date
OP
OP
pollyp
Club Member
I've been looking for a set of rota alloys for awhile so one set is for daily and another set for the track, preferably 15" white grids. some on ebay had come n gone of various odd colours n offsets n high prices (they're bout £500 new alone)
but just before bed thought I'd just check ebay and ooh saw set of white 15" rota grids with tyres for £299 delivered.
read further and its been on a micra so offset is prob the same. also recognised the micra pics n vids.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/181191070458?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
at first I thought from the bodykit it was kristians but from memory of who uses white rotas would it be McCheung?
brought goodbye wallet
as if my garage is already full of 8 R888 wheels, here's another set of wheels to cram in lol, really need to sell these R888s
but just before bed thought I'd just check ebay and ooh saw set of white 15" rota grids with tyres for £299 delivered.
read further and its been on a micra so offset is prob the same. also recognised the micra pics n vids.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/181191070458?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
at first I thought from the bodykit it was kristians but from memory of who uses white rotas would it be McCheung?
brought
goodbye walletas if my garage is already full of 8 R888 wheels, here's another set of wheels to cram in lol, really need to sell these R888s
OP
OP
pollyp
Club Member
huh just found mcCheungs sale page including the rota alloys but listed in buy sell as £260 and SOLD but that was last updated on monday and I just purchased it on his ebay list for £299 this early morning?
http://micra.org.uk/threads/k11-jdm-parts-for-sale.57486/#post-620629
so either he's already sold em but forgot to update his ebay list, or double selling it, or he could go back in time after I just purchased it and update his buy sell post on monday?
http://micra.org.uk/threads/k11-jdm-parts-for-sale.57486/#post-620629
so either he's already sold em but forgot to update his ebay list, or double selling it, or he could go back in time after I just purchased it and update his buy sell post on monday?
OP
OP
pollyp
Club Member
and found his Project Firefly blog and looks like its on the same T1R tyres as mine, brill
http://micra.org.uk/threads/project-firefly.35408/page-2
http://micra.org.uk/threads/project-firefly.35408/page-2
OP
OP
pollyp
Club Member
ah so it used to be kristians ride.
so historically kristian started with that yellow SR,
turboed the stock 1.3 ,
apply wald bodykit,
upgraded to sr20 engine and sold the 1.3 turbo setup (which is what I won on ebay and using now),
mcCheung brought the car,
applied rota grids n other upgrades
and now tday tis all being broken up?
h701micra
Deactivated Account
I guess so I don't know that much history I just know it was a kristian built car
I believe it was Andy_S that told me. On the "members ebay finds thread"I want thr rota wheels but cant justify the money
OP
OP
pollyp
Club Member
oh gosh I just came back from karting with m8s tonight, 30mins session each driver and god my ribs, feet, arms, hands, neck r aching and prob even more tomorrow, so unfit
then drove my car home and ooh didn't realise the engine delivery was so comfy smooth hehe
gonna be out of action recovering for afew days i think
then drove my car home and ooh didn't realise the engine delivery was so comfy smooth hehe
gonna be out of action recovering for afew days i think
OP
OP
pollyp
Club Member
So a spare set for msc oulton park day next year then
that's the plan. T1R set for roads and 595RS-R for track
h701micra
Deactivated Account
I've taken to T1-Rs alot recently. My tyre budget has halved this year and they perform well enough
If I was pushed I'd go back to Yoko A048-Rs just a bloody good tarmac tyre
h701micra
Deactivated Account
T1-Rs? JJC stock them
its when those guys stop stocking em I'll panic
OP
OP
pollyp
Club Member
T1-Rs? JJC stock them
aye. need to research into alternatives for such occasion
SirChris
Educated Bodger
I am still in the cheap tyre realm. I just purchased some yoko a5## something or other. I am still under the belief nice tyres don't make a difference but we shall see in the next few weeks. I may have to come to you both for advice when I stop putting naff tyres on the car. I get cheap part worms so I think why not.
SirChris
Educated Bodger
Sounds about right.Yoko A539's? I run them... Not raced them yet but they seem good on the road
What you lot think of the 539s?
OP
OP
pollyp
Club Member
new coolant pipe o-ring for when I fully disassemble the engine block
new auxilary belt
removed the old one and no wonder it squeals, its manky
the inner ribbing is worn to sharp ridges, shiny n glazed n oily n contaminated with sealant
the alternator belt is dry n fine
here's the new auxilary belt
old vs new
fitted n tensioned
removed the down pipe wrapping incase it's been contaminated with previous oil stain to hopefully stop the smell of burnt oil when stationary for awhile
the squealing has stopped now
new auxilary belt
removed the old one and no wonder it squeals, its manky
the inner ribbing is worn to sharp ridges, shiny n glazed n oily n contaminated with sealant
the alternator belt is dry n fine
here's the new auxilary belt
old vs new
fitted n tensioned
removed the down pipe wrapping incase it's been contaminated with previous oil stain to hopefully stop the smell of burnt oil when stationary for awhile
the squealing has stopped now
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h701micra
Deactivated Account
Are these cheap?Yoko A539's? I run them... Not raced them yet but they seem good on the road
If they are they could be mine and pollys replacement for the T1-Rs
£70 a tyre fitted for me...got an event on 18th august, and If i don't crash they're probably decent
Will let you two know
h701micra
Deactivated Account
No tyre can hold you on the stage... just see how long thry hold£70 a tyre fitted for me...got an event on 18th august, and If i don't crash they're probably decent
Aye I'm sure me and Paul will want to know
Still £20 over a T1-R factoring in fitting
h701micra
Deactivated Account
Yarg
£39.30 a tyre; £10 to fit.
No idea if Pauls is the same
They do a 175/55/15?
SirChris
Educated Bodger
Not a bad price
OP
OP
pollyp
Club Member
yep bout £40 a tyre and £30 to fit the set
T1R only available from 185, 195, 205, 225
OP
OP
pollyp
Club Member
since work is calmed abit and JAE is getting closer, time to finally commence fixing the last stage of the engine.
first drove out to the country road to warm up n test compression in a secluded area.
here's the compression history so far, seem to have stablised. also the piston top is now 90% dry so oil rings prob wearing in good but plugs still has a slight hint of white burnt oil residue and oil consumption has slowed alot but it still drops abit weekly.
for the wet compression test I injected a small syringe of oil into each cylinder (exactly the same 1-2 tablespoon) and on 1st crank attempt it peaks at bout 15.5bar hmm seems bit high?
so reset the gauge and leaving it connected, I repeat the test 3 times, each attempt the reading would get abit lower as some of the oil pool is evacuated out under each crank so it seals the rings less.
this means I cannot reliably & consistently compare wet & dry readings directly cos its very dependent on how much oil is in the cylinder to help seal the rings momentarily.
but the important factor with compression readings is that all the cylinder compressions are consistently the same within the spec, and for the wet & dry tests they're pretty even so that's good
while the gearbox oils warm I also tried to test the LSD preload condition by lifting each front wheel one at a time and turning it with the torque wrench but both sides show no resistance at all so I'm concerned that once again the belleville ring may have shattered AGAIN?
draining oil
some more bits on the gearbox plug
removed the cam cover to check the hot valve clearances
Mmm the regular oil changes have kept the insides nice n clean
plugs with teh white oil staining residue
measured the hot valve clearances and the result is good:
top left section is the min, max & ideal hot/cold clearance values for the valves.
top right is a colour coded scale of those value limits.
in the inlet and exhaust graphs, the upper values are from during the break-in period (good inlet clearance but loose exhaust clearances)
the lower section of the graphs are from tday after the break-in period with the corrected shims (inlet clearance is perfect and exhaust clearance may need to loosen by a fraction)
first drove out to the country road to warm up n test compression in a secluded area.
here's the compression history so far, seem to have stablised. also the piston top is now 90% dry so oil rings prob wearing in good but plugs still has a slight hint of white burnt oil residue and oil consumption has slowed alot but it still drops abit weekly.
for the wet compression test I injected a small syringe of oil into each cylinder (exactly the same 1-2 tablespoon) and on 1st crank attempt it peaks at bout 15.5bar hmm seems bit high?
so reset the gauge and leaving it connected, I repeat the test 3 times, each attempt the reading would get abit lower as some of the oil pool is evacuated out under each crank so it seals the rings less.
this means I cannot reliably & consistently compare wet & dry readings directly cos its very dependent on how much oil is in the cylinder to help seal the rings momentarily.
but the important factor with compression readings is that all the cylinder compressions are consistently the same within the spec, and for the wet & dry tests they're pretty even so that's good
while the gearbox oils warm I also tried to test the LSD preload condition by lifting each front wheel one at a time and turning it with the torque wrench but both sides show no resistance at all so I'm concerned that once again the belleville ring may have shattered AGAIN?
draining oil
some more bits on the gearbox plug
removed the cam cover to check the hot valve clearances
Mmm the regular oil changes have kept the insides nice n clean
plugs with teh white oil staining residue
measured the hot valve clearances and the result is good:
top left section is the min, max & ideal hot/cold clearance values for the valves.
top right is a colour coded scale of those value limits.
in the inlet and exhaust graphs, the upper values are from during the break-in period (good inlet clearance but loose exhaust clearances)
the lower section of the graphs are from tday after the break-in period with the corrected shims (inlet clearance is perfect and exhaust clearance may need to loosen by a fraction)
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OP
OP
pollyp
Club Member
this morning began disconnecting the engine. camera power at the last bit got cut off which didn't show how I struggled to disconnect that damn neutral swith plug cos it had this hidden tag and managed to stab finger with screwdriver!...plaster!
I've been noticing a smell of exhaust from the vents during WOT and here it might be cos the turbo elbow downpipe gasket is leaking. I need to remove those studs off the turbo elbow and sand the surface flat cos its quite rough n rusty
remove more stuff till I finally remove the engine
remove gearbox
remove crank pulley, notice the oil staining n dirt, all traced up to that leaking timing chain side panel
release bearing collar looks abit dry n scored, not enough graphite?
PP fingers fine
may as well measure the dimensions of the flywheel & clutch cos I know r-reg and others are in middle of upgrading and this may be useful info.
first I fit these 2 threaded bars which keeps my straight edge ruler (ref plane) exactly 11cm from the engine/gearbox face (to clear the release bearing) and I use my vernier calipers from the ref plane to measure all distances relative to the engine face
clutch off
wtf after all these miles only 1/4 of the flywheel side of the clutch is still touching, somethings not right. either the disc or the fly isn't flat. this ain't ideal for getting the max out of it especially during drag launch
the PP side of the clutch is ok n flat
with a straight edge on the fly it seems the face wasn't exactly machined flat enough. the inside is off by 3 thou!
it still bites gr8 but should I bother getting it machined flat and hope the flywheel side of the 200mm clutch plate mates to the new face? or leave it cos it works and save cash?
flywheel off, no signs of leakage here
so here's all the measurements of the flywheel & clutch for this 200mm setup.
pretty surprised that when the release bearing touches the PP finger, it's actually resting alot further back in its travel on the input shaft collar whereas on a stock clutch there's prob some gap there
to compare with the stock clutch positions I fit the jun fly & clutch
remeasured and the flywheels are exactly the same depth from the engine face, only difference is the 200mm clutch fingers are 78.7mm from the engine face while the jun fly with paddle clutch and stock PP is closer at 75.2mm from the engine face
I've been noticing a smell of exhaust from the vents during WOT and here it might be cos the turbo elbow downpipe gasket is leaking. I need to remove those studs off the turbo elbow and sand the surface flat cos its quite rough n rusty
remove more stuff till I finally remove the engine
remove gearbox
remove crank pulley, notice the oil staining n dirt, all traced up to that leaking timing chain side panel
release bearing collar looks abit dry n scored, not enough graphite?
PP fingers fine
may as well measure the dimensions of the flywheel & clutch cos I know r-reg and others are in middle of upgrading and this may be useful info.
first I fit these 2 threaded bars which keeps my straight edge ruler (ref plane) exactly 11cm from the engine/gearbox face (to clear the release bearing) and I use my vernier calipers from the ref plane to measure all distances relative to the engine face
clutch off
wtf after all these miles only 1/4 of the flywheel side of the clutch is still touching, somethings not right. either the disc or the fly isn't flat. this ain't ideal for getting the max out of it especially during drag launch
the PP side of the clutch is ok n flat
with a straight edge on the fly it seems the face wasn't exactly machined flat enough. the inside is off by 3 thou!
it still bites gr8 but should I bother getting it machined flat and hope the flywheel side of the 200mm clutch plate mates to the new face? or leave it cos it works and save cash?
flywheel off, no signs of leakage here
so here's all the measurements of the flywheel & clutch for this 200mm setup.
pretty surprised that when the release bearing touches the PP finger, it's actually resting alot further back in its travel on the input shaft collar whereas on a stock clutch there's prob some gap there
to compare with the stock clutch positions I fit the jun fly & clutch
remeasured and the flywheels are exactly the same depth from the engine face, only difference is the 200mm clutch fingers are 78.7mm from the engine face while the jun fly with paddle clutch and stock PP is closer at 75.2mm from the engine face
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OP
OP
pollyp
Club Member
lets assess the gearbox first cos if the LSD is broke n needs rebuilding I wanna send that off to gripper first whilst checking the engine.
remove the cover and yay the preload ring is surprisingly still intact
removed clutch pack, wipe clean & place on kitchen roll
K lets compare readings with the last time it was rebuilt in march
http://micra.org.uk/threads/pollymobiles-rebuild.35251/page-77#post-580551
Belleville Preload Ring (previous/current measure)
thickness - (2.66 / 2.66mm)
conical offset - (1.04 / 0.85mm)
it's been squashed flatter during the engine break-in/cruising period by 0.19mm!
Outer plate 1 - (1.9 / 1.89mm)
Inner ring 1 - (1.73 / 1.73mm)
Outer ring 2 - (1.54 / 1.53mm)
Inner ring 2 - (1.53 / 1.53)
Outer ring 3 - (0.94 / 0.93mm)
Inner ring 3 - (1.53 / 1.53mm)
Outer ring 4 - (1.34 / 1.33mm)
Inner ring 4 - (1.53 / 1.53mm)
Planet driver
so looks like all of the outer plates have worn by 0.01mm while the inner plates are still the same thickness but the biggest change is the thinner preload spring
the area between the top of the cap and the face of the planet driver, which the clutch pack has to squeeze within, is 15.45mm
this distance stays consistant and how much the clutch package is compressed determines the preload
originally the 1st rebuilt lsd back in feb 2012 had a clutch pack total thickness of 15.65mm (0.20mm preload)
http://micra.org.uk/threads/pollymobiles-rebuild.35251/page-51#post-510710
the 2nd rebuild back in march 2013 had a clutch pack total thickness of 15.74mm (0.29mm preload)
http://micra.org.uk/threads/pollymobiles-rebuild.35251/page-77#post-580551
and now that has worn down to the current total thickness of 15.53mm (0.08mm preload!)
so no wonder I felt no resistance spinning the wheels cos there's almost zero preload (only just enough to take up slack in the clutch pack)
wonder if I should send it back to gripper over the next week and ask em to replace the belleville ring (which turns out to be either too brittle or too ductile/deformable) with more solid clutch plates. or just leave it and get on with the rebuild.
remove the cover and yay the preload ring is surprisingly still intact
removed clutch pack, wipe clean & place on kitchen roll
K lets compare readings with the last time it was rebuilt in march
http://micra.org.uk/threads/pollymobiles-rebuild.35251/page-77#post-580551
Belleville Preload Ring (previous/current measure)
thickness - (2.66 / 2.66mm)
conical offset - (1.04 / 0.85mm)
it's been squashed flatter during the engine break-in/cruising period by 0.19mm!
Outer plate 1 - (1.9 / 1.89mm)
Inner ring 1 - (1.73 / 1.73mm)
Outer ring 2 - (1.54 / 1.53mm)
Inner ring 2 - (1.53 / 1.53)
Outer ring 3 - (0.94 / 0.93mm)
Inner ring 3 - (1.53 / 1.53mm)
Outer ring 4 - (1.34 / 1.33mm)
Inner ring 4 - (1.53 / 1.53mm)
Planet driver
so looks like all of the outer plates have worn by 0.01mm while the inner plates are still the same thickness but the biggest change is the thinner preload spring
the area between the top of the cap and the face of the planet driver, which the clutch pack has to squeeze within, is 15.45mm
this distance stays consistant and how much the clutch package is compressed determines the preload
originally the 1st rebuilt lsd back in feb 2012 had a clutch pack total thickness of 15.65mm (0.20mm preload)
http://micra.org.uk/threads/pollymobiles-rebuild.35251/page-51#post-510710
the 2nd rebuild back in march 2013 had a clutch pack total thickness of 15.74mm (0.29mm preload)
http://micra.org.uk/threads/pollymobiles-rebuild.35251/page-77#post-580551
and now that has worn down to the current total thickness of 15.53mm (0.08mm preload!)
so no wonder I felt no resistance spinning the wheels cos there's almost zero preload (only just enough to take up slack in the clutch pack)
wonder if I should send it back to gripper over the next week and ask em to replace the belleville ring (which turns out to be either too brittle or too ductile/deformable) with more solid clutch plates. or just leave it and get on with the rebuild.
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OP
OP
pollyp
Club Member
*Belleville preload ring
Amazing stuff Polly, keep it up, you're inspiring more ideas out of my head and more money out of my wallet every day
corrected
OP
OP
pollyp
Club Member
needed to find some way of rigging the workshop cam before working on the engine so I found this small clamp, drill a hole and screwed the cam mount onto it
so now I can clamp it anywhere
so here I begin removing all the ancillaries, sump, and head
little bits of sealant under the pickup mesh again
oil quite mucky black but will be all clean again
head removed
center of the pistons have a thick crust of burnt oil. the outer edges kept thin by the constant wetness whenever it runs. top of the cylinders have a thick carbon crust which I'll nee to clean off before removing the pistons.
still surprised at the amount of piston-bore clearance for these forged pistons, can see the rings
head looking abit crusty
all coated in baked crust, this will take awhile to clean off
so now I can clamp it anywhere
so here I begin removing all the ancillaries, sump, and head
little bits of sealant under the pickup mesh again
oil quite mucky black but will be all clean again
head removed
center of the pistons have a thick crust of burnt oil. the outer edges kept thin by the constant wetness whenever it runs. top of the cylinders have a thick carbon crust which I'll nee to clean off before removing the pistons.
still surprised at the amount of piston-bore clearance for these forged pistons, can see the rings
head looking abit crusty
all coated in baked crust, this will take awhile to clean off
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OP
OP
pollyp
Club Member
removing the custom windage tray then the pistons
before removing the pistons, we need to clear this thick layer of burnt oily carbon which could ruin the perfect rings
began wiping away with carb cleaner n rag
all smooth, smear some oil over it so the pistons slide out smoothly
pistons n crank out and knocked the crankcase breather out too
parts all over
piston 1, crusty top but look how spotless it is below 2nd ring. Suppose the motomans hard initial break-in seemed to have helped bed the top rings fast for good consistent compression and reduce signs of blowby.
Prob just oil rings that need sorting now.
piston 2 same sign
piston 3
piston 4
good signs at the moment. we'll have a detailed look tomorrow.
cleaning all the crusted oil off the piston top n head is gonna be alot of elbow grease
before removing the pistons, we need to clear this thick layer of burnt oily carbon which could ruin the perfect rings
began wiping away with carb cleaner n rag
all smooth, smear some oil over it so the pistons slide out smoothly
pistons n crank out and knocked the crankcase breather out too
parts all over
piston 1, crusty top but look how spotless it is below 2nd ring. Suppose the motomans hard initial break-in seemed to have helped bed the top rings fast for good consistent compression and reduce signs of blowby.
Prob just oil rings that need sorting now.
piston 2 same sign
piston 3
piston 4
good signs at the moment. we'll have a detailed look tomorrow.
cleaning all the crusted oil off the piston top n head is gonna be alot of elbow grease
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OP
OP
pollyp
Club Member
whats the end-gap of the expanders in the bore paul ?
when the ends of expanders touch it is usually slightly larger dia than the bore in order to push the rings outwards. so they don't have a "gap" in the bore.
unless you mean how much their ends overlap on top of each other (preload?) when squeezed within the bore?
or unless u mean the oil ring end gaps. they were all set to 0.381mm
http://micra.org.uk/threads/pollymobiles-rebuild.35251/page-78#post-583432
I'll be rechecking all clearances tomorrow against the values when it was freshly built
