PollyMobiles Rebuild

[pollyp]

i looked inside the inlet ports and no sign of leaking inlet valve stem seals. drained some oil till its at 3/4.
started her cold and still no good. first 15sec the exhaust is clear, then the blue mist slowly builds till its a mix of blue mist n steam, garage is full of blue mist for 3mins then it becomes a white steamy mist of water from the cat.

i'm at a loss here. once again something in the engine has gone wrong and burning oil before ed tunes it, not ideal.

i tried uploading the stock map with the turbo MAF & injectors and it idles lean n lumpy at 15.8afr but revs 3k at round 14.7 with help of the o2 sensor

 

[Stani1029]

Could it be the turbo then??

 

[pollyp]

turbine seal? how do i find out? maybe take the gtir elbow off n see if the turbine is damp?

i doesn't smoke from cranking to 15secs, so its not pooling oil. nor smoke at all under full power or vac or idle once the exhausts heated up.
it just seems like the oils too thin when cold like when i was using the 5w50 on her.
should another flush with new 10w40 maybe get rid of the old 5w50 incase some remained?

 

[frank]

if its only since the oilchange, i would try some cheap 20w50 paul, and see what happens

 

[martinb]

Blue smokes not good, pull the air filter off and check for play in the turbo

I guess it's not smoking for first 15 as engines not hot enough to get oil to turbo seals to start leaking

Me personally I'd stick with 10w 40w as that's what it was designed for by nissan

I bet as much as you love your turbo do you sometimes get the hump and think if the convenience of NA?

 

[martinb]

Oops just realised you've already got 10w 40w

Check the turbo for play mate

Also what's the t2 from?

 

[Stani1029]

If you remove the turbo from the exhaust and run the engine to see if the smoke comes from the ports then that rules out the turbo, also check the oil drain is free from blockages

 

[pollyp]

if its only since the oilchange, i would try some cheap 20w50 paul, and see what happens

yeah i feel i wanna try castrol 15w40 to see if it helps the cold start issue but asda/tesco stopped selling it

 

[frank]

yeah i feel i wanna try castrol 15w40 to see if it helps the cold start issue but asda/tesco stopped selling it

opie have it for £18/5L eh paul

 

[pollyp]

Blue smokes not good, pull the air filter off and check for play in the turbo

I guess it's not smoking for first 15 as engines not hot enough to get oil to turbo seals to start leaking

Me personally I'd stick with 10w 40w as that's what it was designed for by nissan

I bet as much as you love your turbo do you sometimes get the hump and think if the convenience of NA?

gonna check for play in abit

yeah it takes afew secs to build enough oil pressure to the turbo

anything other than stock exhaust is bound to cause an issue. just gotta stick at it

 

[pollyp]

Oops just realised you've already got 10w 40w

Check the turbo for play mate

Also what's the t2 from?

turbo came with the turbo kit

 

[pollyp]

If you remove the turbo from the exhaust and run the engine to see if the smoke comes from the ports then that rules out the turbo, also check the oil drain is free from blockages

neighbours won't be impressed at the noise of running without a manifold :/

would a blocked turbo drain not cause it to smoke when warm and at high load/vac too?

 

[pollyp]

ah Asda has 15w40 in stock. is it ok to just drain the 10w40 and fill with 15w40 without touching the filter?

 

[frank]

ah Asda has 15w40 in stock. is it ok to just drain the 10w40 and fill with 15w40 without touching the filter?

just run it for a few secs with the drainplug out eh paul, and 5w aint much difference fwn 20w50 ftw

 

[pollyp]

just run it for a few secs with the drainplug out eh paul, and 5w aint much difference fwn 20w50 ftw

It'll be grinding metal without oil pressure wouldnt it?

 

[frank]

It'll be grinding metal without oil pressure wouldnt it?

eventually yeh, wizz it on the starter for 1/2 a min if you,re worried then (just to empty the pump and filter)

 

[pollyp]

daren't risk it. i'll just loosen the filter to let the trapped oil out.

stani i think ur right.
while draining i saw this

apart from the bad drain seal i prev tried to fix with several copper washers, the turbine housing now has an oil leak which could be a damaged turbine seal = turbo overhaul:down: and would explain the burning smoke n smell from the engine bay this morning and maybe the awful emissions?

i doubt i could get the turbo rebuild kit in time so a thicker oil is my only option. unless someone knows where i can physically buy the kit to fit before monday?
hang on i found a kit on ebay for £45, txting them if i could pay & collect the kit if i drive over fri night after work

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120776948612

or blackpool

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Turbo-Reb...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item5adec29f80

 

[pollyp]

changed to 15w40 last night. this morning same story.
start engine and clear for 5sec, then theres steam for 15sec which turns to blue'ish steam that hangs about for 1min then back to white steam, maybe its the pool of residue left from the 10w40. driving down road still has a burning oil smell when stationary from the burnt residue on the turbo casing.

driving to work might've burnt off the last residue. if the thicker oil has worked it shouldn't smoke as much when i restart her this lunchtime.

 

[pollyp]

still smoking from cold.

tried to drive over to blackpool at lunch to get turbo seal kit but A1 was shut n diverted prob cos of a crash. whole things a car park and nav said couldn't make it in time so had to ring the guy n ordered the t2 turbo rebuild kit and also added a staggered rear oil seal ring cos decatting may cause a normal one to blow, all sent next day for £75

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/390284353408?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Garrett-T...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item4aa8ed537d

 

[pollyp]

well turbo's out

bit of oil vapour from the breather, need to sort that out

inside the exhaust ports are dry n normal so not burning oil from there

turbo exit coated from that octane booster

video of the amount of bearing play





turbine looks fine

and inside the turbine housings dry

blades n shaft marked

the compressor nut was very tight. stuck the turbine nut on a hex socket and had to buy an 8mm o-spanner to undo the retaining nut clockwise. and then the compressor fan was a fairly tight fit to the shaft, after alota twisting n pullin n wd40 it came off

remove circlip

this plate was tricky to remove. had to fiddle with some thin flatheads to carefully pry it out

the 3 torx bolts are really! tight, bent my soft £ shop torx key. gonna have to buy a harder torx bit from hardware store

turbine shaft slides out with a light tap

signs of burnt oil deposit?

quite thick

maybe burnt deposits were building up and the rear seals failing. how do you remove & fit the rings?

 

[frank]

any seal leakage would travel down here would it not paul ?

 

[pollyp]

any seal leakage would travel down here would it not paul ?

the compressor side was slightly oily cos the rocker breather was plumbed straight to the inlet with no catch can. i'll need to clean out the intercooler from oil. the pipes from the IC, through the GTIR MAF and into the TB isn't oily so think the mist just stays down the intercooler.

the rear of the housing shows more signs of light oil burning and some radial oil spray on the turbine backface.
at idle the turbo doesn't move so maybe when its cool the rear seal tolerances are too great, not helped by the slightly worn bushes, and as oil pressure builds after 15secs its forced out through the stationary rear seal gap and burnt. once the turbo's heated enough after 2min the gaps close up.

 

[frank]

your oil pressure will be at its highest while the engine is cold eh paul, (1st minute ?) then the pressure will drop as the oil warms up/thins down i guess

 

[pollyp]

makes sense

 

[pollyp]

well tday i need a mini circlip plier to remove the bushes and a hard torx bit to remove the thrust bearing and i'm also awaiting the important delivery of the turbo service kit.
if i go with me sister to buy the tools i could miss the delivery and not service the turbo in time. so she goes to get the tools while i wait at home.
she came back first. the torx bit was able to removed the thrust plate but the pliers were for normal size circlips so had to dremel em abit

circlip off and bushes removed

using the pliers in reverse i could remove the seal rings

hear a van arrive and immediately opened the door before the guy could figure which house it is
turbo kits arrived

stepped rear seal ring

went to remove the front seal ring and Yikes it snaps if the new one snaps this easily i'll be doomed

was soooo nervous fitting the new ring. it required so much precision n steady hand to stretch it JUST enough to slip on, had to abort it several times but eventually got it on

stepped rear seal ring vs normal ring

fitted

new bushes fitted

new front plate

new thrust bearing appears to be brass while the original was prob aluminium

brass thrust bearing has T28 stamped

front plate fitted

the compressor wheel is such a tight fit on the shaft. had to turn n push it down hard almost cutting my fingers on the blades.
the shaft has much less play now

housings fitted

tried to get a new full width alternator belt of similar length but its too long

new manifold gasket

turbo on

cleaned the IC pipes from oil and reassembled everything.

started her up and the exhaust steams up once again after 15sec while it warms up, was hard to tell if its just a big ploom of water vapour from the cold exhaust pipes or a hint of oil smoke. engine bay smoking abit as the residue oil burns off.
but with near bearings n seals i noticed the turbo's now spinning at idle.

went for a drive to heat n burn off the oil stains. doesn't smoke at WOT or high vacuum or at warm idle. cooled for few minutes and still doesn't smoke after a warm start, so far so good.
see if it smokes tomorrow morning

 

[frank]

well done paul (Y) fingers crossed for ya

 

[will930]

stuff haynes! think paul :blush:

 

[Stani1029]

Great news so far, hope theres nothing else now

 

[r-reg-sr]

:grinning:

 

[pollyp]

thx guys i hope it works out for monday

 

[pollyp]

added vid of the turbo shaft play.

cold started her this morning and it appears to be mainly alota steam coming out throughout 15mins of idling but the turbine housing is still leaking & burning abit of oil :/
uploading video

took her out for afew blasts to heat things up and no longer steams or leak from the turbine except for the usual drain pipe fitting, just like before.

leaking oil from the turbine housing is surely the rear seal eh?

 

[pollyp]

cold start this morning




warm start after cooling down from afew blast down the road

 

[pollyp]

restarted her after cooling down for 3hrs to ambient temp. no steam or smoking




here's when its heated up

 

[pollyp]

Remap Turbocharged Standard Engine

feels like this car wants to die
such a crap week.
first the turbo seal blew,
then i almost had 3 accidents going to/from Ed,
then the crap newspaper manifold gasket blew during remapping,
then it failed the emissions test AGAIN with the same readings:wasntme:
now there's this serious over-rich flatspot at 3.5k on the new map,
then i coudn't do a full nistune datalog for Ed cos the consult kept disconnecting from interferance,
and finally this morning before work while trying to swap the old manifold gasket, but ran out of time, i forgot to fit the dipstick back so oil is spattered all over the front end

WHY! ffs
worst week ever. this turbo will prob never pass the mot.
gonna need to cool off before i could report back fully

 

[r-reg-sr]

turbo blanking plate ft mot win ?
yeh cool out a bit then solve the riddle

 

[pollyp]

ok i fitted the old manifold gasket back on and really tightened the turbo drain pipe to try stop it leakin.

here's the rubbish failed cardboard gasket

 

[pollyp]

tested my previous turbo map and it works fine like before.
loaded up the new remap

fuel map

timing map

did some WOT datalogs in 1st, 2nd & 3rd gear

1st gear is fine, wheelspins at high rev

2nd gear fine, the issue sometimes happens

now in 3rd gear revs go upto 3k when suddenly it halts, boost is still 10psi and mixture goes 10AFR but you can see the timing just goes -21deg! (dizzy position was wayy off btw so that's prob -10deg) so no wonder it stopped making power

looking at the timing map it looks like the timing goes haywire once it enters the blue flagged section

then timing retards to -21degfwn

whats on earths goin on there?

 

[Antony]

a micra turbo does not need a cat test to pass an mot..
the mot testers flow chart for emmisions (doccument 7) states that if an exact match for the vehicle to be tested cannot be found in the database then a non cat test must be carried out"

and since a turbo micra never existed.... bajingo...... no cat test.

doing the same thing with the MR2. a 3.0 v6 mr2 never existed, so no cat test.... regardless of year as they have nothing to go on...
i mean a turbo micra is never going to pass the cat test for a non turbo one is it?

 

[Antony]

oh and the best bet for mani gasket is pressed from copper, then anealed under a flame and cooled to soften it, then use that.

it will hold much better than any paper style gasket and the soft copper will fill out any imperfections in the mating surfaces too.

 

[pollyp]

a micra turbo does not need a cat test to pass an mot..
the mot testers flow chart for emmisions (doccument 7) states that if an exact match for the vehicle to be tested cannot be found in the database then a non cat test must be carried out"

and since a turbo micra never existed.... bajingo...... no cat test.

doing the same thing with the MR2. a 3.0 v6 mr2 never existed, so no cat test.... regardless of year as they have nothing to go on...
i mean a turbo micra is never going to pass the cat test for a non turbo one is it?

i thought the mot guy i just went to said that they'd test my cars emission according to the reg so treats it as though its stock irregardless of its configuration. and yea its near impossible to get it to pass without leaning it out heavily and affect drivability.

i need to check up on that regulation

 

[pollyp]

oh and the best bet for mani gasket is pressed from copper, then anealed under a flame and cooled to soften it, then use that.

it will hold much better than any paper style gasket and the soft copper will fill out any imperfections in the mating surfaces too.

the old gaskets holding on for now. gonna try the new expensive nissan gasket.
how or where can i get a copper gasket made?

need to get summore thicker copper washers for the turbo drain fitting cos its still leaking tiny amounts

 

[pollyp]

ok this morning i thought i'd try deactivating those blue flag cells in the timing map but couldn't just press O key like the o2 closed loop flags on the fuel map, had to go into raw data mode and saw the flagged area values shoot up from 20 to 150​

filtered values mode are

so copied those values into the raw data

​

tried it down motorway and it works

reason why this issue didn't affect the prev map was cos the rev scale was different. previously the scale only went up to 4k so i never reach the marked region of the timing map. now with the new map the rev scales up to 6.4k but the same cells are marked which means that at 3k i enter that cell region and so timing goes wack

 

[Ian]

a micra turbo does not need a cat test to pass an mot..
the mot testers flow chart for emmisions (doccument 7) states that if an exact match for the vehicle to be tested cannot be found in the database then a non cat test must be carried out"

and since a turbo micra never existed.... bajingo...... no cat test.
/QUOTE]


Surely that's never going to fly as its just a modification to a stock micra therefore has to be tested as one?

 

[frank]

a micra turbo does not need a cat test to pass an mot..
the mot testers flow chart for emmisions (doccument 7) states that if an exact match for the vehicle to be tested cannot be found in the database then a non cat test must be carried out"

and since a turbo micra never existed.... bajingo...... no cat test.
/QUOTE]


Surely that's never going to fly as its just a modification to a stock micra therefore has to be tested as one?

yeh , the mot guy just types in whatever engine code is on the block and it comes up on his screen, the exact match thing is if they cant find an engine code anywhere

 

[pollyp]

just went for another blast and yep the timing issues def fixed

wonder if the paddle clutch is glazing cos it slips if i upshift 1st to 2nd too early from standstill at wot

 

[pollyp]

yeh , the mot guy just types in whatever engine code is on the block and it comes up on his screen, the exact match thing is if they cant find an engine code anywhere

grind the engine code off and write VTEC on cam cover with black marker pen

 

[will930]

grind the engine code off and write VTEC on cam cover with black marker pen

be sneaky and change the code to SR20 :grinning:

 

[pollyp]

checking its not smoking on the morning before the remap



Ed remapping the turbo



this morning going to work the timing issue was still there when i got WOT at 0:09s
then at 5:20s i fixed the timing values and it accelerated no probs

 

[Guy]

Good news then Paul . Looks quick'n all :wow:.

 

[pollyp]

it's gettin there. next is the hardest task of getting it through an MOT :/