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The 1.3 Turbo Battle####

Yeah 4kg for all of that just makes me feel slightly happier. I am thinking on in front of passenger as they don't move and one behind driver or somewhere better once I see ur pic lol


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Enuo said:
*Table
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Any is going to take credit for some science **** we did.. You know breaking bad the tv series..
3259035-328257.jpg

Andu is Heisenberg /walt and I am Jesse the meth head

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SirChris said:
@pollyp err so why does it still retract and all that but not massive amounts. Pish. Will rip it apart again. It won't take me as long this time round with experience.

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  • when the caliper swing arm arm is released, the spring you see attached to the arm pushes it back towards its "rest" position (provided the rotating shaft is lubricated and moves freely).
  • when the swing arm shaft is in its "rest" angle, the cam/wedge cavity profile of the shaft relieves pressure off the central shaft (think of the swingarm shaft as a crank and its moved from TDC to BDC), so the central shaft is allowed to travel back into the deeper cavity (retract) to release the handbrake action
  • the coil spring inside should push that central shaft inwards provided the shaft is lubricated and slides smoothly (if the swing arm is at "rest" but the central shaft & piston hasn't retracted least 1mm from it's "fully engaged" position, then the central shaft could be seized)
 
pollyp said:
  • when the caliper swing arm arm is released, the spring you see attached to the arm pushes it back towards its "rest" position (provided the rotating shaft is lubricated and moves freely).
  • when the swing arm shaft is in its "rest" angle, the cam/wedge cavity profile of the shaft relieves pressure off the central shaft (think of the swingarm shaft as a crank and its moved from TDC to BDC), so the central shaft is allowed to travel back in (retract) to release the handbrake action
  • the coil spring inside should push that central shaft inwards provided the shaft is lubricated and slides smoothly (if the swing arm is at "rest" but the central shaft & piston hasn't retracted least 1mm from it's "fully engaged" position, then the central shaft could be seized)
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Ta mate clearing off the work top as we speak so I can disassemble. I think used to much silicon under the arm rotating shaft doberry majig. So she is under pressure a bit well we shall see ey. Do I need to be generous with lubrication or just enough?


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It pushes out about 4 odd mm both of them. And retract back when you push the back. I Remember they used to go further and further out if you levered the handbrake. There's one issue already. @pollyp not right?


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SirChris said:
Ta mate clearing off the work top as we speak so I can disassemble. I think used to much silicon under the arm rotating shaft doberry majig. So she is under pressure a bit well we shall see ey. Do I need to be generous with lubrication or just enough?


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just enough to lube the touching surfaces.

if you pack that cavity brimmed with grease without leaving an air gap, and then install the central shaft with it's rubber o-ring, then cos grease doesn't compress, the central shaft essentially "hydrolocks".
even though the swing arm has swung round "kinda BDC" to allow the shaft to retract back, the hydrolocked grease prevents the coil spring from pushing the central shaft back inwards and the shaft/piston would appear like the handbrake mechanisms seized/doesn't work much.
 
pollyp said:
just enough to lube the touching surfaces.

if you pack that cavity brimmed with grease without leaving an air gap, and then install the central shaft with it's rubber o-ring, then cos grease doesn't compress, the central shaft essentially "hydrolocks".
even though the swing arm has swung round "kinda BDC" to allow the shaft to retract back, the hydrolocked grease prevents the coil spring from pushing the central shaft back inwards and the shaft/piston would appear like the handbrake mechanisms seized/doesn't work much.
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Ta mate just took the lot apart and took some lube out. Still.. Having issues gah
Going to take it all out and see if its all going in right will post pics

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Would the spring not being sprung enough effect it? Possibly stretch it out?

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SirChris said:
It pushes out about 4 odd mm both of them. And retract back when you push the back. I Remember they used to go further and further out if you levered the handbrake. There's one issue already. @pollyp not right?


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Click to expand...

the handbrake mechanism should purely just nudge that central threaded shaft in/out few mm as the swing arm is moved fully on/off - and since yours is moving out 4mm then retract back to its original spot, sounds like the handbrake mechanism is working ok.

the mechanism adjusts itself when you apply hydraulic brake with the handbrake mechanism fully retracted.
basically:
  • handbrake swing arm is fully retracted to its "rest" position,
  • the central threaded shaft is allowed to be fully pushed/retracted back by the internal coil spring,
  • now with the central shaft held fully back, hydraulic pressure moves the piston outwards,
  • the "female" threaded part of the handbrake mechanism attached to the piston is also pushed outwards along the "male" central shaft,
  • when hydraulic pressure is released, the rubber piston seal flexes back which Pulls the piston backwards very slightly to release force off the pads. handbrake mechanism is now self adjusted.
when you now apply handbrakes
  • handbrake swing arm rotates on
  • the Cam action of the swing arm shaft pushes the central shaft outwards
  • the flat blunt end tip of the central shaft touches the inside of the piston and pushes it outward to apply force on the pads to engage brakes
and finally when releasing handbrakes
  • handbrake swing arm is fully retracted to its "rest" position,
  • the central threaded shaft is allowed to be fully pushed/retracted back by the internal coil spring,
  • central shaft relieves pressure off the piston
  • the piston seal flexes back which again Pulls the piston backwards to release force off the pads and thus release braking

the part you mention about the bits going further and further out with each handbrake pull to self-adjust is only related to the drum brake self adjusters, not disc calipers
 
In that case could it be the brakes not being close enough to the disk in the first place. The hand brake levers are engaging all the way when pulling the hand brake up. Possibly need to run in the brakes and disks? That will get a flat even surface then when the handbrake is pulled its got more contact patch?

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SirChris said:
In that case could it be the brakes not being close enough to the disk in the first place. The hand brake levers are engaging all the way when pulling the hand brake up. Possibly need to run in the brakes and disks? That will get a flat even surface then when the handbrake is pulled its got more contact patch?

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Chris daft question but are the handbrake cables all secured up into their brackets in the exhaust tunnel so each side gets equal pull etc?
 
The handbrake cable works perfectly and is operating the handbrake levers on the calipers perfectly. The cable is not the issue.
 
Skinner_87 said:
Chris daft question but are the handbrake cables all secured up into their brackets in the exhaust tunnel so each side gets equal pull etc?
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Yeah Paul. Both the calipets were maxing out on the handbrake arm and extending. Causing the piston to come out... Might be thinking they are doing there job but I must say the brakes need some extra bleeding and air block would mean that the piston retracts big style when pedal is depressed possibly causing that when I put the hand brake on it just doesn't meet the pads or it meets the pads but they are still no bedded in so the contact patch is nothing.

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Enuo said:
The handbrake cable works perfectly and is operating the handbrake levers on the calipers perfectly. The cable is not the issue.
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Last time I listen to you with you Haynes manual reading. Repeatedly pull hand brake to bring the pads in contact
... Just read the Haynes.. Its not there. It is however there for the drums lol

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SirChris said:
Yeah Paul. Both the calipets were maxing out on the handbrake arm and extending. Causing the piston to come out... Might be thinking they are doing there job but I must say the brakes need some extra bleeding and air block would mean that the piston retracts big style when pedal is depressed possibly causing that when I put the hand brake on it just doesn't meet the pads or it meets the pads but they are still no bedded in so the contact patch is nothing.

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Ahh right only suggested as i had one of the cable bolts sheer causing one side to work and not t'other.

Get them blead out fully mate would be a good place to start as you say air in the system isnt going to help.

Its always the final bits & bobs that cause the headache!
 
Skinner_87 said:
Ahh right only suggested as i had one of the cable bolts sheer causing one side to work and not t'other.

Get them blead out fully mate would be a good place to start as you say air in the system isnt going to help.

Its always the final bits & bobs that cause the headache!
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Pain ey :D all part of the fun lol. BTW if the bias adjusted is stuck right up high does that mean the rears are getting as much fluid as the fronts?

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SirChris said:
Pain ey :D all part of the fun lol. BTW if the bias adjusted is stuck right up high does that mean the rears are getting as much fluid as the fronts?

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If it was right up high id think it'd be bias alot more in favor of the front Chris? (Pauls pic)

brakebiasloweredunadjus.jpg


dont quote me on that i've not used one for years tbh :confused:
 
If I can't get it to run with handbrake I have to change back to drum to pass mot and bring blocks with me to stop her rolling down the hill lol

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Well the arm is not attached at all. I wonder if the lack of attaching to the bias valve then causes the rods to drop then blocking off the rear brakes again.

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SirChris said:
Well the arm is not attached at all. I wonder if the lack of attaching to the bias valve then causes the rods to drop then blocking off the rear brakes again.

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Every time you push down on the pedal id imagine the plunger is pushed down with the fluid but drawn back up with it / any air mate carnt imagine thats helping you at all
 
But they are not attached to any thing. From standard I believe. They literally rest on the swing arm.

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Still you are right the swing arm has not been attached the spring mech is not there and the arm on the bias valve is swinging about.

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Oh I see. The fluid just flows back. I have a one way valve do day tool which should eliminate that no?

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So where does it need to sit. If I attach the brake bias. Does it just have to be taught on the mechanism?

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