steam engine

richj

richj

Deactivated Account
Just wondering why cars don't use some form of steam engine to make use of all the heat created by an engine. A radiator is just a pure waste really. Is there a good reason for this? expense? weight? Does an engine typically not produce high enough steam pressure?
 
yeh, ICE engines are pretty inefficient eh, about 25% of the energy gets converted into motion iirc.
peltier devices have been tried out in the past, that convert heat energy into electric (to charge the battery) but until the the fosil fuels get really expensive, nobody will bother :upside:
 
thats what i was thinking frank, with the engine up to temp, could you power the head lights, a cd player, electric window etc.. with the heat produced by the engine. I presume it is expense that is the culprit.
 
You could be onto something there buddy, it makes sence (in my mind anyway). Time to spend some time in your shed working it our (like all great engineers lol)
 
Steam engines are not very compact, and thus are not suited to something like that.
 
Well consider that you need a boiler, etc etc...dont think its really practicle unless its on a bus or something...then the weight of it would probably make it pointless as you'll be carrying weight thus making it burn more petrol/fuel etc
 
^and thats someone who knows what they are talking about lol......
but there must be a way ..i can see the blog allready "RichJ's steam engine conversion"
 
well yeah like Frank says 25% ish. It takes what 5bhp to power headlights etc... With modern materials, you could probably build a steam engine out of plastics. Curtis, the engine would of course be the boiler. I agree Ed, I am not trying to say it is possible or even a good idea. Just curious is all. Never a crime ;)
 
steam engines require large pistons relative to their power output due to the lower pressures they work at. Also, if you were to say use the exhaust temp to create steam you would use that and then it could only be let off as waste steam like a train, not a closed system like an old power station due to the insufficient room to condensate it properly and re-use the water. Which also means you need to carry water around with you as well!
 
Like you say Ed, there are major problems, and this is fantasy land. But its nice to have an alternative angle to think about none the less??
 
what about a 6 stroke engine?

after the exhaust gasses are flushed out, fill the chamber with water, the water will turn to steam and push the piston whilst cooling the engine, then it is vented back out and normal stroke carries on?
 
yes me too, but your processor wouldn't exist if someone hadn't said, f*ck it, there must be a way.
 
richj said:
thats what i was thinking frank, with the engine up to temp, could you power the head lights, a cd player, electric window etc.. with the heat produced by the engine. I presume it is expense that is the culprit.
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peltier (thermoelectric generators) are only about 10% efficient so far, how about a small sterling engine ? (from a household combined heat and power unit)
 
obviously the ultimate ambition is to keep the engine at a suitable temperature. I don't know what a sterling engine is, but i will look it up.
 
NeX said:
lol well you never know :D might find someone stupid enough to tip water into their intake to see if they can run it off steam lol
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With the amount of vandilism threads that have been cropping up recently, it wouldnt suprise me if someone could clarify this lol
 
If you put water in the combustion chamber, the compression will cause the head gasket to blow among other things. I presumed Nex's suggestion involved calculating a quantity of water that would not cause problems and an engine made from or internally coated in materials that would resist degradation at higher than life temperatures. DONT put water in your intake manifold :)
 
rich

you could bring your efficiency up close to that of a diesel engine (ie low pumping losses) by fitting a long duration inlet cam to give late inlet valve closing (like the toyota prius engine) atkinson cycle esque
 
frank said:
rich

you could bring your efficiency up close to that of a diesel engine (ie low pumping losses) by fitting a long duration inlet cam to give late inlet valve closing (like the toyota prius engine) atkinson cycle esque
Click to expand...

Which would instantly result in poor combustion and high emissions at idle!!!

The Prius is a joke. They can't even go 10 miles on their batteries, and return less mpg than many other cars under many conditions. Its simply an eco friendly tax dodging car!!
 
richj said:
Curtis, the engine would of course be the boiler. I agree Ed, I am not trying to say it is possible or even a good idea. Just curious is all. Never a crime ;)
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If the engine is the boiler then how do you create the heat from the exhuast?
Or if you ment the water in the engine to be the boiler (coolent) wouldn't work as the engine would just over heat..
 
Interesting thread..

I think people shouldn't be shot down for wild stab in the dark guesses for new forms of power..

However silly it seems..

I think in the future all cars will be powered by water..

..by this, I mean H20... Hydrogen and Oxygen to a degree...

I do have my doubts though on weather we will even move around in the similar ways in the long term future..

Hydrogen as a fuel is obviously a good answer to our fossil fuel problems.. However, only a fool would dismiss a completely new form of Propulsion.. as oppose to a new fuel for traditional type of transport..

Concidering 99.999% of all transport relys on fossil fuels at the moment.. theres no OBVIOUS long term replacment lined up.. electric? hyroden? a mixture of the two..

Steam power as this is the thread topic is an inefficient means of power generating using the traditional methods. Tank engines.. and massive amounts of water and fuel.. massive wastage and huge size..

Using the by-products of a car engine running and its heat has been going on since the beginning.. cabin heat through the blowers for comfort and demisting..??? Utilising some for a little extra power/efficiency is a nice idea.. but ultimatly the petrol engine now has a shelf life..

If anyone knows the new mass form of transport, whichever it may be..hink that let me know. Because im going to by some shares in that company early..

I DO think that an interesting point was made on top gear last week. That cars in their current form will become toys.. expensive, but used for enjoyment. I think the comparison made to horse's was a good one.
 
one thing i dont understand is on the electic car why dont they put alternators on the opposite two wheels to power the motors so the battery is there just to get it in motion
 
electric power stations are effectively steam engines, and they,re pretty efficient :glance: and hydrogen has got a long way to go before being a valid transport fuel, it,s highly energy intensive to produce, and needs to be compressed to 3000psi to be tankered or cooled to -250deg to be liquified

jowley said:
one thing i dont understand is on the electic car why dont they put alternators on the opposite two wheels to power the motors so the battery is there just to get it in motion
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as in perpetual motion :p
 
frank said:
electric power stations are effectively steam engines, and they,re pretty efficient :glance:
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ok.. as a system smaller than a 2 bedroom house, and portable..

frank said:
and hydrogen has got a long way to go before being a valid transport fuel, it,s highly energy intensive to produce
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.. hence its price atm.. BUT when the inevitable happens.. and it will happen.. it will get cheaper and cheaper to resource.. unlike fossil fuels.. It doesn't matter how cheaply you can pull it out of the ground if its running out at a rapid rate..

.. How much water do we have?.. Ignoring the obvious zero byproduct with its use..

i.e.... Zero emmisions..

Its simply the way things will go.. sooner or later..
 
kristian said:
ok.. as a system smaller than a 2 bedroom house, and portable..



.. hence its price atm.. BUT when the inevitable happens.. and it will happen.. it will get cheaper and cheaper to resource.. unlike fossil fuels.. It doesn't matter how cheaply you can pull it out of the ground if its running out at a rapid rate..

.. How much water do we have?.. Ignoring the obvious zero byproduct with its use..

i.e.... Zero emmisions..

Its simply the way things will go.. sooner or later..
Click to expand...
nah, a scaled down 50hp steam turbine
yeh, but it takes A LOT of energy to separate the H from the O tho fwn
 
Well due to our inefficient ways at seperating the two you certainly don't get a return. If you split water and hyrdrogeon then you obviously need to use energy to do so, if you then start a chemical reaction where the by product is water using Hydrogeon and Oxygeon then you are simply returning it to its original state. With no net gain or loss of energy... in a perfect world, but its not so we have losses through inefficiency so its actually a net loss!
 

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