janspeed manifold failed emissions!!!

[Swiper]

as we all know, some people report failed mot's on emissions due to their janspeed manifold and lack of front cat. and then some people manage to get a pass.
anyway, i just thought i'd post up that my 1.3 Si failed the emissions test, getting a CO reading of 0.88% (max 0.30%) on the 1st fast idle test, and then a CO reading of 0.50% on a 2nd fast idle test.
it then passed when i went back for the free re-test with the standard manifold and 1st cat in place, but i never got an emissions print out for the pass, so i can't let you know the reading.

 

[Craig]

It will be pretty much 0% with the primary cat, out of interest, what rpm was the fast idle done at withthe janspeed on?

 

[sonic]

with just the primary cat mine was 0% CO

 

[Napster]

i failed aswell swiper!!!!

was annoyed that i had to go and buy another micra standard manifold grr , but it then passed with complete system on!!!!

 

[Swiper]

It will be pretty much 0% with the primary cat, out of interest, what rpm was the fast idle done at withthe janspeed on?

it says "engine speed measurement was by-passed", but says between 2450-3050 rpm.

i failed aswell swiper!!!!

was annoyed that i had to go and buy another micra standard manifold grr , but it then passed with complete system on!!!!

do you mean it passed with a complete standard system on, or complete aftermarket system with janspeed manifold?

 

[Retepetsir]

It should pass, but the rpm needs to be held as close to the max as possible (3000-3050). Mine failed REALLY badly when held just above the minimum RPM (Held at 2600 then 2550 with min of 2500), with a reading of 0.540ish (max 0.300) and then a reading of 0.580ish!!!

So the higher the rpm when tested, the lower the CO reading gets...

It passed with 0.030 on the retest, way below the limit of 0.300!

That's with a Janspeed manifold and just the primary cat in place. You also ideally need the cat to be nice and hot.

So with a Janspeed manifold and just the primary cat on (not too difficult to replace) it passed quite easily when the rpm was high enough.

 

[Napster]

do you mean it passed with a complete standard system on, or complete aftermarket system with janspeed manifold?

i put the whole system back to standard after it failed with "janspeed manifold and old cat back micra system (so standard except janspeed)"

i was annoyed it failed as you can tell lol....and was rushing around for ages fitting new parts and putting it back to factory!!!!

naps

 

[ollyc98]

I think it would pass if you got a shiney new secondary cat at this would be as good as 2 half dead ones.

 

[NeX]

it seems like the CG is quite a dirty engine if you cant get it thew an emitions test without two cats.

surely you could put in some clean fuel just for the Mot just to get it threw

 

[sonic]

I'm just glad that mine doesn't fall under the emissions law, how do other modified car builders manage then to get theirs through an MOT then ?

 

[Craig]

The best will have a nice high-flow sports cat or an econo map, others will swap for a std system - surely you mean secondary cat Pete, as the primary one is in the std manifold.
Craig




Oh and Nex, CG stands for "clean and green" rofl

 

[NeX]

Oh and Nex, CG stands for "clean and green" rofl

lol i know its a bit of a joke aint it maybe it should stand for Carbon Gasses

 

[Antony]

blow torch and £50 should get it to pass...lol

 

[Swiper]

what anoyed me, is that my bro's p11 gt passed with just the center cat as he had a ss autochrome header/manifold, which removes the first cat. the second cat on the p11 is exactly the same as the k11 cat aswell. i know this because i had to grind odd the studs on his cat to fit the header, and i replaced it with a spare k11 second cat that i had lying around. so i'm thinking if i get mine re-mapped with my janspeed manifold, standard second cat and a s/s cat back, then i should be able to get it to pass?

 

[Fordy]

safc will get the emissions down im sure

 

[whipit]

I think your probably find that the second cat just isn't getting hot enough to react the gases together. Think a sports cat having a metal honey comb as opposed to a ceramic will probably get hotter quick enough.

 

[Antony]

thats what i said..... a blow torch..lol

 

[whipit]

or just rag it around the block several times, wont do engine much good but might help with mot. lol

 

[Retepetsir]

The best will have a nice high-flow sports cat or an econo map, others will swap for a std system - surely you mean secondary cat Pete, as the primary one is in the std manifold.
Craig




Oh and Nex, CG stands for "clean and green" rofl

Yep, i meant the secondary then

It passes easily with a sports exhaust/manifold and just the secondary cat in place.

 

[Napster]

just an update for me please.......with janspeed and MID CAT

solutions are:
1. get CAT hot
2. have a friendly Mechanic
3. put standard manifold on
4. Fuel controller

now the 1st one cant always been done so thats out of the question unless car is there on exact time before test?

number 2....just not exceptable in my opinion

number 3....a bit of a mission to put it back for an hours testing, but sure u will pass

and bullet point 4.....fuel controller.....now im unsure on this.....so can some one help!!! threads have been talked about on here stating there bad, no good waste of money etc....but.....would for an hours testing...on a lower setting for inputting fuel into the engine system be a problem? getting the limit just right might take some adjusting so it doesnt starve the engine, but is that a simple solution???

thanks

 

[Ed]

Number 1 is vital. The trouble with cats on the K11 is at idle so little (relatively) exhaust gas is made that the cat simply does not heat up enough. You need to take it for a hard drive for 10 mins just before the emissions are tested. Also a good and working lambda sensor will be important. With these the car should pass.

Number 4 is an option, and can help, but with the above done it should be fine in many cases.

 

[frank]

would,nt lagging the 2nd cat with heat wrap be an option ?

 

[Napster]

Number 1 is vital. The trouble with cats on the K11 is at idle so little (relatively) exhaust gas is made that the cat simply does not heat up enough. You need to take it for a hard drive for 10 mins just before the emissions are tested. Also a good and working lambda sensor will be important. With these the car should pass.

Number 4 is an option, and can help, but with the above done it should be fine in many cases.

thanks Ed!!
i know the cat needs to be hot, but i meant generaly it wont be hot enough and like what i said and u said...unless its been heated before the test!

i failed with my janspeed due to overfueling at idle......and by looking at the lambarda sensor.....i believe its time is up....the mechanic said the second cat was working fine and doing its job, just to much fuel! so should i replace the lambarda sensor?

so...thats when i thought about a fuel controller...but wouldnt know if that would work or be exceptable for the test to run??

thanks for helping me understand

 

[frank]

napster

iv,e got a multimeter fixed to the dash, wired to the middle wire on the lamda it gives a reading on the fly (1 second refresh) , very usefull for tweeking your emissions !,
when running on petrol mine is showing rich (.7/.8 volts) on tickover and would probably fail.

frank

 

[Napster]

napster

iv,e got a multimeter fixed to the dash, wired to the middle wire on the lamda it gives a reading on the fly (1 second refresh) , very usefull for tweeking your emissions !,
when running on petrol mine is showing rich (.7/.8 volts) on tickover and would probably fail.

frank

wicked! thanks "Frank"!!!
i may go try this soon! see what i find!!!
so if i gt a fuel contoller i adjust the valve till it reads between the "volts" or otherwords "acceptable emissions settings" and go from there???

according to "swiper" (from his 1st post) he said that levels are "30%"....what would that equal on a multimeter looking at volts or can i not do that? i dont know? thanks

 

[frank]

napster

mine,s a 7 quid multimeter from machine mart set on millivolts (ooo - 999) , a lamda value of 1.0 ( about 13/1 i think) should read .5v or 500mv, but i find my car holds back a bit at that ! it runs best at around .6v and returns 260ml/10 quid gas so can,t be far out
red lead to middle wire/lamda, common lead to earth.

frank

 

[Ed]

Doesn't really work like that. The lambda sensor is only capable of reading a very narrow region, or AFR. At 14.7 (probably too fast to really see) When in closed loop, the volts will go up-down repeatedly swinging back and forth. This is closed loop. And to pass the MOT your car must be in this region, if this doesnt happen or its slow, you probably need a new lambda sensor.

 

[frank]

i know what your saying ed, factory lamda,s are narrow band, but that meter has a 1 second refresh and is quite easy to follow.
if i run at .4/.5 v the car holds back quite bad, if i run at .7/.8 v the tailpipe gets sooty so it does me allright

 

[Low Rider]

My last MOT emissions figures were as follows; NME cams, BTB Group A exhaust with centre cat.

Natural Idle @ 850rpm
---------------------
CO - 0.24%

Fast Idle @ 2980rpm
--------------------
CO - 0.07%
HC - 21ppm
Lambda - 1.00

 

[Napster]

thanks for the posts guys and helping me out! and others i am sure!!!

well im going to see about getting a Fuel controller and see if this helps me pass an mot! maybe a waste of money but id rather pay out for one and have no problems getting through an mot with a fine tweek than swap manifolds days before and then back again after imo!