Help me solve my idle issues

Is yours dizzy or coilpack ?

Its just i've noticed you say you've changed the dizzy, but also purchased an OBDII reader...isnt OBDII coilpack only?

Last thing you wanna do is wait two weeks to find out it wont fit or work. :)

You could try unplugging an injector at a time and see if it gets worse or stays the same, just incase you've got a stuck / blocked injector. The injector fuse is contacting properly yeah, sometimes the corrosion is hidden inside the fuse box so it looks fine from the top but actually isnt. Unplugging and replacing might have pushed it over the edge.
 
he ordered the obd1 to obd2 adapter too eh chris :), and the water ingress is usually a rusty filler pipe issue eh (fairly common)
 
frank said:
he ordered the obd1 to obd2 adapter too eh chris :), and the water ingress is usually a rusty filler pipe issue eh (fairly common)
Click to expand...

Ah right must have missed that bit :D always wondered if those obd1 to obd2 adapters worked with the micra...
 
Can you take injectors out without having to replace any seals? Aren't they super precise? I'm running out of things to suspect..

I fill up at mainly 3 different stations. All very new.

Until friday, I'm driving one of these..
3502993758_f7fbf0cb47.jpg
 
For testing you can leave them in and just unplug them from the loom. :)

I've removed and replaced injectors without replacing the seals, but then the seals have always looked ok on the ones i've fiddled with. Usually they've been given a soaking in wd40 though.
 
unless its intermittently running on 3 cyls ? i would,nt think it was an injector problem personally, but you can easily lift the complete rail out and spray onto some cardboard :)
 
One thing i just remembered, is that 2 weeks before it all started, I had a semi-large water puddle on the passenger floor. It was pouring from under the glovebox. Could this somehow have gotten to any electrical junctions? Is it common to have to replace the ECU?
I have access to a 1.3L at a local scrappy not to far away, but the 1.3 ECU aren't the same as the 1.0 ECUs?
I have a GA16DE sitting at a mates house, should I grab some parts from it? Like injectors?

EDIT: Now that I've done some research, it looks like the OBD2 reader i ordered isn't going to fit.. Oh well, have some other cars it will be good for, but dang. It's also possible to short some wires so you get the codes to flash? Like 7&8 or 6&8 or something like that?

This friday is gonna be hell..
 
Yep, mine is a 1999 K11C semi-facelifted 1.0L, with 200 000km on the clock. WITH NATS (I'll edit the first post for more info on the car)
The one in the scrapyard is a 1994 K11 1.3L
 
nats and non-nats have a different pinout mate, i think you would need the whole loom from the 94 k11 (and dash layout complications too!)
 
i would suggest a fuel leak. my micra (1.3L Si) had suffered really bad kangarooing as i drove back from my MOT (which it failed :( ). eventually i found the problem, which was failed seals on my fuel pressure regulator. it was an adjustable fpr and i'd used some brake seals instead of fuel seals. they lasted just over a year.
 
It's gotta be something simple, after all (as i understand) it only started acting up after the car was flooded. I know theres the coincidence factor, but as you've switched out a few things and still no joy...i'd go back to the start.

I guess water could have gotten in, but i dunno if it would have waited that long before it took effect.

I know a dirty electrical connector can be a pain, one bad connection on mine had the car disabled until i tracked down and wd40'd the plug.
 
Daniel_ said:
One thing i just remembered, is that 2 weeks before it all started, I had a semi-large water puddle on the passenger floor. It was pouring from under the glovebox. Could this somehow have gotten to any electrical junctions? Is it common to have to replace the ECU?
I have access to a 1.3L at a local scrappy not to far away, but the 1.3 ECU aren't the same as the 1.0 ECUs?
I have a GA16DE sitting at a mates house, should I grab some parts from it? Like injectors?

EDIT: Now that I've done some research, it looks like the OBD2 reader i ordered isn't going to fit.. Oh well, have some other cars it will be good for, but dang. It's also possible to short some wires so you get the codes to flash? Like 7&8 or 6&8 or something like that?

This friday is gonna be hell..
Click to expand...


There is possibility that the ecu has been damaged...if there has been some water involved.
 
Only had time to fix the backbox, will continue troubleshooting tomorrow
30703931.jpg

Before
31946785.jpg

After

Took a quick peak at the ECU (only removed plastic cover), but everything seemed nice and dry..
Will test some stuff and report back tomorrow.
 
Update!
Today i drained the tank, and put some fresh petrol in it to eliminate water in the tank. No change.

Ordered a Nissan OBD1 Datascan, but it will be here in a week, so then i could give you a movie from all the sensors etc.

Gonna tinker with the injectors next week.. It was alot of festive activities that kept me from troubleshooting this weekend, but I'll catch up!

Any more ideas?
 
Daniel_ said:
One thing i just remembered, is that 2 weeks before it all started, I had a semi-large water puddle on the passenger floor. It was pouring from under the glovebox. Could this somehow have gotten to any electrical junctions? Is it common to have to replace the ECU?
I have access to a 1.3L at a local scrappy not to far away, but the 1.3 ECU aren't the same as the 1.0 ECUs?
I have a GA16DE sitting at a mates house, should I grab some parts from it? Like injectors?

EDIT: Now that I've done some research, it looks like the OBD2 reader i ordered isn't going to fit.. Oh well, have some other cars it will be good for, but dang. It's also possible to short some wires so you get the codes to flash? Like 7&8 or 6&8 or something like that?

This friday is gonna be hell..
Click to expand...

]
water ingress into the ecm was a big problem for k11's at one stages, remove the ecm and open the case you'll clearly see corrosion damage. ive replaced a few at work before
 
jacob_ts said:
]
water ingress into the ecm was a big problem for k11's at one stages, remove the ecm and open the case you'll clearly see corrosion damage. ive replaced a few at work before
Click to expand...

Care to elaborate on that? I tried searching, but found nothing like you said. ECM? the ECU? Should i pop the case on the ECU?

I tried shorting the consult port, but no codes flashed..

Car is booked for garage again this Monday, but now I have something to show you, a video! Here is the youtube link:

Helpful?
 
yeh water in/on ecu,, even the plugs on it can loosen so push that on firm tighten the nut in the middle off the plug
you can remove the ecu to see it better.

did the maf sensor and idle valve get a clean out ? thats a cold start right?
 
Daniel_ said:
Care to elaborate on that? I tried searching, but found nothing like you said. ECM? the ECU? Should i pop the case on the ECU?

I tried shorting the consult port, but no codes flashed..

Car is booked for garage again this Monday, but now I have something to show you, a video! Here is the youtube link:

Helpful?
Click to expand...

they used to leak water from scuttle panel clips which dripped into the ecm/ecu, this shorted the pins inside. just disconnect and remove it and open up the case and examine both sides of the pcb board, i believe there is a technical bulletin about it
 
out of interest is your last 6 of VIN below '437000' if so there is a common fault that causes over fueling on 1.0l's regarding temp sensor
 
jacob_ts said:
they used to leak water from scuttle panel clips which dripped into the ecm/ecu, this shorted the pins inside. just disconnect and remove it and open up the case and examine both sides of the pcb board, i believe there is a technical bulletin about it
Click to expand...
usually this causes non start so probably not issue, just read bulletin, still worth a check
 
Update, here are some pics.

Doesn't seem like any water could have leaked in here
12105094.jpg

67317553.jpg

53578231.jpg

Sorry for yellow pictures, I'm using a high powered garden lamp :p

Here is the ECU:
19316707.jpg

75355960.jpg

67921192.jpg

14754409.jpg

49735249.jpg

I can't see anything wrong with it!
 
also when you tried shorting wires on connector, which did you short and which light were you looking at? as its that red led in the ecm that should flash,and if there is no faults it should flash code 55
 
Ah, I tried shorting the two bottom left ones, But the mechanic also had a Nissan Consult thingy, that said that there are no error codes saved.

Here is the bottom
45265382.jpg

Should i check for error codes again?
 
all looks to be pretty good, it is bottom left ones, if you turn the ignition on itll do a bulb test, which just turns on that little red led, then short the two wires for at least 2 seconds, after removing link, it should flash five long five short which is code 55 which means its not the crank, maf, temp, ignition or throttle circuits
 
Aha! according to my multimeter, the 12V Ign has 0V potential, but the pin above it has 12V?!
Gonna go try them upside down now
 
Update!
I went and got myself a Nissan Consult cable. I installed the 300ZX Conzult freeware, and fired it up on my Windows 8 laptop (Tricky!)
img9665q.jpg


Tried to search for fault codes, and got the 55 as expected:
17800714.png


Put the key in the IGN mode:
82960504.png


Idle, First 7 seconds:
81511495.png


Problem is, as soon as the car starts acting up, the conzult drops the connection. Is this hinting towards harness damage?
 
is the old waxstat fast idle mechanism still on, if so remove it cos they're most likely seized these days.
now that the butterfly can fully close, check the tps is adjusted to 0.5ohm closed and 4.2ohm WOT

also noticed during IGN the IAV is 65% but drops to 20% after cold start. it should actually be wide open (fast idle) if the engines stone cold

see you've cleaned the IAV but does the moving valve rotate freely without any binding at all?
the old ball bearing tends to grit n bind abit. now that you have some diag software control you could seperate the IAV motor from the valve side, twiddle the valve shaft with ur fingers fully open/close few times to free it up, recalibrate the IAV so at 0% (force 0% in the Active Test menu) the valve is just bout closed (where it just bout blocks light through the gap), reinstall everything, warm up engine and recalibrate the idle bleed screw

guide
http://micra.org.uk/threads/pollymobiles-rebuild.35251/page-19#post-446256

this is my cold start video datalog to compare
 
Thanks pollyp, your knowledge on the matter helped me alot!
I made a T/B with the waxstat removed, TPS tweaked, IAC cleaned and spinning, BUT, I don't think I'm gonna slap it on. The car's going to a mechanic tomorrow, and I don't wan't to confuse him. Will send the extra parts with the car though.

Update after monday I guess..
 
Daniel_ said:
Update!
I went and got myself a Nissan Consult cable. I installed the 300ZX Conzult freeware, and fired it up on my Windows 8 laptop (Tricky!)
img9665q.jpg


Tried to search for fault codes, and got the 55 as expected:
17800714.png


Put the key in the IGN mode:
82960504.png


Idle, First 7 seconds:
81511495.png


Problem is, as soon as the car starts acting up, the conzult drops the connection. Is this hinting towards harness damage?
Click to expand...

Am just wondering there....is there any danger the ECCS relay is faulty?? when the relay gets a bit of heat into it then is it breaking down the current in the windings??. wild guess but something tells me this is a very simple fix and that you will kick yourself when you find it. Check all your earths for good connection. When checking them i always check the resistance levels from the battery - to the earth your checking, cable side
 
Lord Lucan said:
Am just wondering there....is there any danger the ECCS relay is faulty?? when the relay gets a bit of heat into it then is it breaking down the current in the windings??. wild guess but something tells me this is a very simple fix and that you will kick yourself when you find it. Check all your earths for good connection. When checking them i always check the resistance levels from the battery - to the earth your checking, cable side
Click to expand...

It's funny that you mention this, because sometimes when the Check Engine Light is flashes, I can hear a loud relay click from the fuse box compartment. It might be worthwile to check this relay (There are 4 there, wich is wich?)

I checked the engine intake manifold ground, and it was OK. Some other grounds that should be checked?

I will update this later tonight if I get the car back fixed or not :S
 
Daniel_ said:
It's funny that you mention this, because sometimes when the Check Engine Light is flashes, I can hear a loud relay click from the fuse box compartment. It might be worthwile to check this relay (There are 4 there, wich is wich?)

I checked the engine intake manifold ground, and it was OK. Some other grounds that should be checked?

I will update this later tonight if I get the car back fixed or not :S
Click to expand...

Yes daniel, should be a main earth lead from the battery down onto the gearbox, i think this also bolts to the chassis leg too. They are not very strong and salt gets into the core and oxidizes the copper,causing very high resistance....or usually breaking it altogether, Almeras of this vintage are well known for this problem . im sure there is another earth point in the car near the main relay box, as your car is l/h drive im not 100% is it in the same place. on r/h drive its in the drivers footwell. It could be worth opening all block connectors and give them a shot of contact cleaner too....disconnect your battery first though
 
When the car starts acting up, the consult data drops out & you hear the relays clicking ? This may indicate unstable power voltage/earth connections to the engine management system & its sensors/relays & control transducers. Use Haynes manual Micra 1993-2002 page 12:17 circuit diagram no 3 & the relay fuse box cover plans to identify each relay/fuse.
  • Easy to continuously confirm steady power supply & earth with test lamp & multimeter in combination at the 14 pin data diagnostic test outlet, while the car is & is not acting up.
  • Rig up a low wattage test lamp & leads. Say 10 watts or less 12v lamp.
  • Data diagnostic outlet has 14pins & only six of them connected to the wiring.
  • Only the Pink 12v power supply & Black ground/earth wires are relevant for this test.
  • To ensure correct identification of the wire/pins, remove the data plug outlet from its chassis mounting to see the wires at the back; this will confirm whether it is upside down or not.
  • Fuel pump relay item no. 26 & ECCS relay item no 30, on Haynes diagram 3, also need to be verified as stable or not during normal & fault condition when car acts up. They appear to be interchangeable on the circuit diagram.
  • When monitoring the voltages, try jiggling the ignition switch, slightly, & also the relevant fuses/ relays.
  • Try tapping the components with a med size screwdriver handle. That is all suspect fuses, connectors, relays, ignition switch, & all the transducers of the engine management system.
  • Fuse no 17,- Fuel pump, & Fuse no FL6 power to ECCS, & FL5 & FA are of particular importance. Any poor connection, in the above circuits, breaking down under load, will give your kangaroo symptoms.
  • Next,the inputs to the ECU. need to be verified as stable. More on that later if required.
  • Fuel pressure supply & vacuum gauge engine condition tests, ditto.
If your vehicle is automatic trans., verify & confirm the neutral switch, item no 37 diagram 3, steady continuous operation.
Hope this is helpful to proceed in a logical evidence gathering sequence.
Happy days, happy hunting.
 
Okay, will get right on that, on my way to pick the car up now! The mechanic did not get it fixed, and he was at it for 2 days!

If it's not the relays, I'm considering dropping it off at the Nissan garage, but that's gonna get expensive...
 
Checked the relays. Switched them all around and tried tapping on them. No change
Checked the voltage at the Data diagnostic outlet. No Vdrops.
Checked the fuses. Again. No change.

The car is going to get booked into a Nissan garage tomorrow.
 
Car is now at the dealership, and it'll probably be there over the holidays if 2 days aren't enough to troubleshoot it. Keeping you posted!
 
Final verdict from Nissan:
Stretched chains, maxed out chain tensioner. Causes the timing to go haywire. 250£ for the diagnosis, and 1200£ if I want to fix it there.

Think I'm gonna order a chain kit and rip the engine apart now. Feels so good to know what the error is, albeit it has been a pricey road...
 
Daniel_ said:
Final verdict from Nissan:
Stretched chains, maxed out chain tensioner. Causes the timing to go haywire. 250£ for the diagnosis, and 1200£ if I want to fix it there.

Think I'm gonna order a chain kit and rip the engine apart now. Feels so good to know what the error is, albeit it has been a pricey road...
Click to expand...

Oh wow, that's unusual for a K11!

1200euro is mad. Good luck fixing, shouldn't be too difficult with the abundance of help here!
 
Daniel_ said:
Final verdict from Nissan:
Stretched chains, maxed out chain tensioner. Causes the timing to go haywire. 250£ for the diagnosis, and 1200£ if I want to fix it there.

Think I'm gonna order a chain kit and rip the engine apart now. Feels so good to know what the error is, albeit it has been a pricey road...
Click to expand...
nah, you would need a hell of a lot of slack to cause that daniel ! i,ve run with a 2.5mm headskim and the chains making a terrible racket, but it never had your symptoms tho o_O
 
Well,I'm gonna inspect it myself, but it does seem odd that it's causing so much trouble. The car has always had regual oilchanges, and afaik the chains suffer alot when oil changes are uncommon.

Ordered the chains, tensioner, guides etc. Set me back 149€ shipped. Will be an awesome win if I pull it off!

You guys interested in some pictures/writeup when I'm at it? Started today by firing up the fireplace in the garage, and removed the hood. Will probably be warm enough tomorrow to really start the teardown.
 

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