Help me solve my idle issues
- Thread starter Daniel_
- Start date
Chain stretch does not correspond to your sudden onset of problem symptoms after fuel flooding?
Chain stretch is a wear out failure over a long time, & usually last the life of the engine in the K11.
Easily confirmed by;
http://www.mgaroadster.co.uk/Technical_Information/Suck It And See.pdf
Both tests can be done in 30 minuets total.
Specifically, read/ vacuum gauge test no.10, at the bottom of page "Suck It AND See"
Chain stretch is a wear out failure over a long time, & usually last the life of the engine in the K11.
Easily confirmed by;
- scattered ignition timing observed with strobe timing light.
- Vacuum gauge engine condition testing; see links for valve timing via vacuum.
http://www.mgaroadster.co.uk/Technical_Information/Suck It And See.pdf
Both tests can be done in 30 minuets total.
Specifically, read/ vacuum gauge test no.10, at the bottom of page "Suck It AND See"
Only seen this to happen to single chain primeras, it causes the cam sensor and crank signal to run out of sync. Would be unusual but certainly a possible cause and would usually show 'cam sensor signal faulty' on EOBD (i presume the coilpack models run a cam sensor), just dont get your hopes up too much!! I am guessing that the estimate that Nissan gave includes removing the head??
Exactly what i was thinking too, hence why i said 'dont get your hopes up'
They are out and out robbers!!! you said car was in dealers at 11:54 am, at 3:15pm you get the diagnosis...3 hours..minus lunch (say 45mins) so, roughly 2 hours work and they charge you 250e!!! i would be telling them where to stick it anyway
OP
OP
It was actually 3.6hours work, for 360€ (I guessed the £ value, and it seems like I don't know my exhange rates (290£)) Made the forum post a bit after I dropped it off.
The job was quoted 1500€ (1200£)
They did the inspection with a timing rig, to confirm that the timing was scattered. They said it was common for Primeras to fail this way (and the unusual Micra). The also said the chain tensioner was maxed out (lifted valve-cover)
I'm gonna lift the engine in a few hours, not gonna fully remove it if I don't have too. Expect pictures soon, and you can see for yourselves
(290£)) Made the forum post a bit after I dropped it off.The job was quoted 1500€ (1200£)
They did the inspection with a timing rig, to confirm that the timing was scattered. They said it was common for Primeras to fail this way (and the unusual Micra). The also said the chain tensioner was maxed out (lifted valve-cover)
I'm gonna lift the engine in a few hours, not gonna fully remove it if I don't have too. Expect pictures soon, and you can see for yourselves
OP
OP
Okay, so I got started on the chain inspection now.
Started the evening like this:
After 2 hours it looked like this:
Here is a closeup on the upper chain
Is this lift normal?
Chain resting:
Here is a closeup of the upper chain tensioner
Another angle.
Imho, this doesn't look THAT bad. Or?
I don't have the new chain yet, It's probably gonna last til the end of next week...
Started the evening like this:
After 2 hours it looked like this:
Here is a closeup on the upper chain
Is this lift normal?
Chain resting:
Here is a closeup of the upper chain tensioner
Another angle.
Imho, this doesn't look THAT bad. Or?
I don't have the new chain yet, It's probably gonna last til the end of next week...
OP
OP
I'm midway through the chainswap now, here are some pics:
Lots of room to do it with the engine still in place.
Here are some of the parts, and they don't look wery worn at all Tried measuring the chains too, but they looked almost identical
Closeup on the upper tensioner, only worn about 2-3mm :/
All the gears looked wery good, feels wrong replacing them..
Ran out of loctite, so I'm gonna have to continue tomorrow when the shops open again...
Still feels like a unnecessary job...
Lots of room to do it with the engine still in place.
Here are some of the parts, and they don't look wery worn at all
Tried measuring the chains too, but they looked almost identical 
Closeup on the upper tensioner, only worn about 2-3mm :/
All the gears looked wery good, feels wrong replacing them..
Ran out of loctite, so I'm gonna have to continue tomorrow when the shops open again...
Still feels like a unnecessary job...
pollyp
Club Member
upper chain looks abit stretched judging by the upper chain tensioner near the very end of its travel. once the internal ratchet mechanism has reached its limit and stops the spring, its no longer able to apply any preload during low oil pressures (cranking & idling) so the chain and tensioner rattles loosely all over.
during higher oil pressure/revs the upper tensioner can be hydraulically pushed further onto the chain upto a point but a very worn/stretched chain will beging to affect valve timing relative to the crank.
the lower tensioner is also spring preloaded but has an absolute travel limit. so once it's reached its limit (that black notch hits the metal cage) when the lower chain is stretched excessively it can no longer extend to take up slack irrespective of oil pressure/engine speed so it always rattles loosely
during higher oil pressure/revs the upper tensioner can be hydraulically pushed further onto the chain upto a point but a very worn/stretched chain will beging to affect valve timing relative to the crank.
the lower tensioner is also spring preloaded but has an absolute travel limit. so once it's reached its limit (that black notch hits the metal cage) when the lower chain is stretched excessively it can no longer extend to take up slack irrespective of oil pressure/engine speed so it always rattles loosely
I was thinking this was going to be the case, i am convinced its something very simple that has been missed
Hi Dan
Disappointed to to read that the maxed out chain was not the answer.
May I suggest that you & a mechanically minded friend, with a fresh approach, use the next ten days to check your records to retest & verify what is working correctly every step of the way in logical methodical process of elimination.
There may well be several easily rectified faults, from connections to basic mechanical settings. Your video of the hunting wandering idle speed rising & falling fluctuating on the IAC valve operation, suggests vacuum leaks & or that basic cold start throttle advance fast idle needs setting on top the waxstat housing, as well as the hot engine throttle stop idle setting. Nissan designed the waxstat to be part of the engine management control system for normal operation in a cold climate like yours in the North of Finland.
Dealerships are under intense pressure to max out ( chain ? ) income & profits with unnecessary expensive repairs being part of their culture. You cannot change human nature or their culture. However, you can question everything & make them prove what they say, as they attempt to sell you another expensive service repair or a ruinous credit deal to buy one of their overpriced vehicles for sale.
Disappointed to to read that the maxed out chain was not the answer.
May I suggest that you & a mechanically minded friend, with a fresh approach, use the next ten days to check your records to retest & verify what is working correctly every step of the way in logical methodical process of elimination.
There may well be several easily rectified faults, from connections to basic mechanical settings. Your video of the hunting wandering idle speed rising & falling fluctuating on the IAC valve operation, suggests vacuum leaks & or that basic cold start throttle advance fast idle needs setting on top the waxstat housing, as well as the hot engine throttle stop idle setting. Nissan designed the waxstat to be part of the engine management control system for normal operation in a cold climate like yours in the North of Finland.
Dealerships are under intense pressure to max out ( chain ? ) income & profits with unnecessary expensive repairs being part of their culture. You cannot change human nature or their culture. However, you can question everything & make them prove what they say, as they attempt to sell you another expensive service repair or a ruinous credit deal to buy one of their overpriced vehicles for sale.
OP
OP
Good advice there, will probably go over stuff again with some other mechanical friends
BUT, since this ain't my passion to troubleshoot an erratic error (I really want to use the spare time on my SR20 powered NX), I'm on the lookout for a new daily driver.
Going to go look on a 2001 Micra, with a 1L that has only 100k km on the clock this week. If it's tidy, I think I'm gonna go for it.
OP
OP
Nah man, too cold
. Vehicle ahs been taken ff the road, and is waiting for spring, will probably take until March. Fuel delivery is the only logical thing to check then.Enjoying the new CG10DE,it gets alot better gas mileage
OP
OP
Got an email from the buyer, and he solved it!
It was.... THE FUELPUMP
Kinda odd, since I paid a mechanic to change it for 200€... Either he messed up or the tank was filled with crud?
He now put it on the road again to soldier on...
If I've learned something from this, don't rely totally on mechanics...
It was.... THE FUELPUMP
Kinda odd, since I paid a mechanic to change it for 200€... Either he messed up or the tank was filled with crud?
He now put it on the road again to soldier on...
If I've learned something from this, don't rely totally on mechanics...
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