Fuel or Ignition ?
- Thread starter HuMpH
- Start date
frank
Club Member
yeh, under the back seat eh :grinning:
frank
Club Member
have you had the pump out the tank yet ? if not do so the strainer is prob cloged from what your saying
edit. its just held by a few clips/tags bit of a pita as you need 3 hands, you should be able to see the bottom of the tank unless there so much crud in the tank if thats the case the tank needs a flush to stop any probs happening again
edit. its just held by a few clips/tags bit of a pita as you need 3 hands, you should be able to see the bottom of the tank unless there so much crud in the tank if thats the case the tank needs a flush to stop any probs happening again
Well I got as far as Taking it out and couldn't work out how it was held in place So I thought I'd go get the pump from scrappers and if its still in car then I can do my learning on the scrapper incase I bust summat :laugh: Anyway it turns out that the k11 he had in had already been well stripped and the pump gone so wasted journey.
I decided to put everything back as it was till I can find a pump or put car in somewhere to be looked at, Though to be honest it wont take long to take it apart again once I work out how its fixed inside tank. I tried the info in another post where it states putting hand behind pump housing and pushing down a tab while sliding pump out But I cant get my hand behind it - just aint enough room. I ran it again afterwards and this time made a vid with phone,more for the audio so you can hear what's happening (assuming you may watch it :blush
. At 13sec it starts to die then picks up till around 2.45 ish and you will see that temp gauge also climbs up nr red so the fan is deffo not kicking in. I stopped before it boiled and had a look at the relay for the fan, I swapped it over with fog light relay and tried fogs to make sure relay works - it does - so thats summat else to try and fix. Could it have something to do with the ecu or whatever its called that controls everything ? sorry if thats a stupid question but its gone from a very reliable good runner to suddenly having both problems.
I may as well try getting pump out and cleaning the strainer or change it if I can find one tomorrow and if that doesn't cure it then I'll have to give up and call a few places. Anyone wanna buy a micra...:laugh: oh vid if anyone can be bothered :blush:
Click Pic to play Vid
I decided to put everything back as it was till I can find a pump or put car in somewhere to be looked at, Though to be honest it wont take long to take it apart again once I work out how its fixed inside tank. I tried the info in another post where it states putting hand behind pump housing and pushing down a tab while sliding pump out But I cant get my hand behind it - just aint enough room. I ran it again afterwards and this time made a vid with phone,more for the audio so you can hear what's happening (assuming you may watch it :blush
. At 13sec it starts to die then picks up till around 2.45 ish and you will see that temp gauge also climbs up nr red so the fan is deffo not kicking in. I stopped before it boiled and had a look at the relay for the fan, I swapped it over with fog light relay and tried fogs to make sure relay works - it does - so thats summat else to try and fix. Could it have something to do with the ecu or whatever its called that controls everything ? sorry if thats a stupid question but its gone from a very reliable good runner to suddenly having both problems.I may as well try getting pump out and cleaning the strainer or change it if I can find one tomorrow and if that doesn't cure it then I'll have to give up and call a few places. Anyone wanna buy a micra...:laugh: oh vid if anyone can be bothered :blush:
Click Pic to play Vid
check fan by the above method
i remember changing the temp sensor and my old 1.0 lx fan started cutting in and out on time again
Yer I realise that changing the sensor should cure it but I was asking if a fault on ecu could be causing the symptoms Im having (both fuel and fan). Just unlucky I suppose having a couple things go at once, will short fan wires today and see. Gonna try getting pump out again and checking strainer etc maybe blow out the fuel line upto filter and anything else I can.
Anyone know of a manual in pdf anywhere ? I got one but it's russian or summat :blush:
Anyone know of a manual in pdf anywhere ? I got one but it's russian or summat :blush:
Right finally managed to remove pump and sender but cant fathom how the bottom piece is fixed to tank. Does this need to come out or is it just a plastic bracket as such ? although will be hard to get everything to slide back while its still fixed I think.
Have cleaned the strainer bit with tin full of carb cleaner as thats all I had in shed that I could use to do it with. Might as well make sure line to filter is clear too. Would it be ok to put a extra filter inline between the original and inj ? as I have a spare one, or would this restrict the flow too much.
cheers Ian
Have cleaned the strainer bit with tin full of carb cleaner as thats all I had in shed that I could use to do it with. Might as well make sure line to filter is clear too. Would it be ok to put a extra filter inline between the original and inj ? as I have a spare one, or would this restrict the flow too much.
cheers Ian
Ok Managed to pick up another pump this afternoon and got it fitted. No change still dyin :down: Gotta get temp sensor in mornin to sort fan but at a loss now with fuel side.
New filter
changed pump
cleaned out injectors
flushed pipes
no fault codes
seems a lot rougher tickin over now too and sounds real rough when revved. Exhaust pops like mad and sounds like its blowin or summat. Think its time to give it to an expert
Thanks for all the help fella's.
New filter
changed pump
cleaned out injectors
flushed pipes
no fault codes
seems a lot rougher tickin over now too and sounds real rough when revved. Exhaust pops like mad and sounds like its blowin or summat. Think its time to give it to an expert
Thanks for all the help fella's.
Yep will do dont worry, hopefully know more 2morra as the guy is coming out to look at it. If I get chance I will post saturday evenin if im back from london early enough, managed to borrow a car luckily. Funny enough pickin up a nice xflow for my mk1 fez(Y) no silly ecu's at least :laugh:
Frank would love it to be as simple as a plug mate, has drove me mad all week.
Frank would love it to be as simple as a plug mate, has drove me mad all week.
Well now tuesday and still waiting for the so called expert to come and have a look at it.
Really need to get this sorted out now so if anyone has any ideas of what else I can try then I would appreciate the pointers.. when talking to anyone about coming to look at it they all seem to assume it is a pump problem, would be mighty unlucky if the replacement pump is faulty too although it came from a micra that was running fine but failed mot on welding so hoping it's ok.
Still need to buy a temp sensor but holding off incase it is something else thats causing all these symptoms. Do you think its worth me checking head gasket ?? although when it does run hot it is not losing water and I cant see or smell anything in the coolant.Graspin at straws now really till I can get a mechanic who turns up :laugh:
Really need to get this sorted out now so if anyone has any ideas of what else I can try then I would appreciate the pointers.. when talking to anyone about coming to look at it they all seem to assume it is a pump problem, would be mighty unlucky if the replacement pump is faulty too although it came from a micra that was running fine but failed mot on welding so hoping it's ok.
Still need to buy a temp sensor but holding off incase it is something else thats causing all these symptoms. Do you think its worth me checking head gasket ?? although when it does run hot it is not losing water and I cant see or smell anything in the coolant.Graspin at straws now really till I can get a mechanic who turns up :laugh:
Possible Solution.
My M reg micra was showing much the same symptoms and after leaving it to it`s own devices it refused to start altogether. Outside my folks house luckily!
We finally, after stripping and testing most circuits found a faulty and rather burnt couple of components on the ECU were the issue. This was replaced with a donor secondhand one and the car now runs as new!
I`m not suggesting my problem would be exactly the same as you described, but the symptoms you mention sound pretty close and hopefully may rule out whether the ecu was the issue here. The other main giveaway for me was the fact that the injectors were not being fed the pulse from the ecu i.e stalling under load and then in the end totally packing up.
Hope this info may help your cause, and more to the point i wish you luck.
My M reg micra was showing much the same symptoms and after leaving it to it`s own devices it refused to start altogether. Outside my folks house luckily!
We finally, after stripping and testing most circuits found a faulty and rather burnt couple of components on the ECU were the issue. This was replaced with a donor secondhand one and the car now runs as new!
I`m not suggesting my problem would be exactly the same as you described, but the symptoms you mention sound pretty close and hopefully may rule out whether the ecu was the issue here. The other main giveaway for me was the fact that the injectors were not being fed the pulse from the ecu i.e stalling under load and then in the end totally packing up.
Hope this info may help your cause, and more to the point i wish you luck.
When I tried the shorting of pins to get the ECU to show any fault codes it came up normal - no faults, could it show that if something in it was faulty/ burnt ? surely something would show up then or the test not work.
I am willing to try anything at this point so could you explain how you tested/found the fault , it looks like a sealed unit so was the burnt item visible or did you do some kind of electrical test to find it. Also you say you replaced it - is it easy to do or do they have to be reset ? I didn't think you could just swap with another from a donor car.
Sorry for all the questions forum must be sick of me by now, this is partly why I have my mk1 fez.. so simple to keep on the road.
I am willing to try anything at this point so could you explain how you tested/found the fault , it looks like a sealed unit so was the burnt item visible or did you do some kind of electrical test to find it. Also you say you replaced it - is it easy to do or do they have to be reset ? I didn't think you could just swap with another from a donor car.
Sorry for all the questions
forum must be sick of me by now, this is partly why I have my mk1 fez.. so simple to keep on the road.Nope not solved it:down: think it's time to buy a new pump maybe, as I got the last one from breakers so could be faulty too.
When RAC fella tested lekky side of pump he said it was at 6 (not sure if he meant volt or amp etc) and normal is between 4 and 8 so was happy with it but did mention that the impeller could still be iffy. He had some toy that he put between plug and leads which looked like a glass bowl and reckoned that there was some fault in dizzy. He cleaned inside cap etc and still had same results.
Like I say I got a dizzy from breakers and fitted that but still have problems so im assuming it now needs a brand new pump.
When RAC fella tested lekky side of pump he said it was at 6 (not sure if he meant volt or amp etc) and normal is between 4 and 8 so was happy with it but did mention that the impeller could still be iffy. He had some toy that he put between plug and leads which looked like a glass bowl and reckoned that there was some fault in dizzy. He cleaned inside cap etc and still had same results.
Like I say I got a dizzy from breakers and fitted that but still have problems so im assuming it now needs a brand new pump.
Hi, Just scanned the thread.
If i were you i would attach a bulb (or led is better) to the signal to the fuel pump relay with the other side to earth of cause, the ecu should be sending a current to the relay while the engine is running (and for 5 secs before you start the car) to power the pump, so the light should stay on while you are driving. it could be a loose connection on this wire or a fault with the ecu, faults dont always show up on tests btw especially if it is a loose connection.
Also, i have a spare 1.3 ecu (non nats) that i could send you so that you could try it to see if it is a fault with your ecu (but your paying postage )
sorry if i have missed something in the thread which means my post is irrelevant.
If i were you i would attach a bulb (or led is better) to the signal to the fuel pump relay with the other side to earth of cause, the ecu should be sending a current to the relay while the engine is running (and for 5 secs before you start the car) to power the pump, so the light should stay on while you are driving. it could be a loose connection on this wire or a fault with the ecu, faults dont always show up on tests btw especially if it is a loose connection.
Also, i have a spare 1.3 ecu (non nats) that i could send you so that you could try it to see if it is a fault with your ecu (but your paying postage
) sorry if i have missed something in the thread which means my post is irrelevant.
frank
Club Member
you need one of these ian http://www.ecutalk.com/consultlcd.aspx
live display on the fly
live display on the fly
Arr, missed that part. Sounds like that connection could be the problem then frank, the ecu does tell the fan to kick in aswell.that does,nt explain the overheating/fan problem tho eh ian
That connection would be my next check then HuMpH. make sure all the pins are properly in the plug and that it is bolted right home.
well cant see anything wrong with that connection at ecu , just rang breakers an he has one for a tenner so can I just swap the ecu and try that or are they coded for each car or something.Sorry if that's a stupid question but Im lost if its after 83 and doesn't have fiesta on the boot :laugh:
solarice
Ex. Club Member
So long as it hasnt not the Nats (nissans anti theft) its a straight swap over...the replacement will have forgotten by now anyway, so the car will run funny for a bit while it catches up again.
Also see my post in the dizzy thread.
I know its not gonna solve the overheating issue...but the other probs your having also sounds like an air leak, especially the stalling under load. Have you checked all the little hoses in the engine for splits / disconnections...the leak would be after the maf. Im guessing the airfilter is clean and clear.
Also see my post in the dizzy thread.
I know its not gonna solve the overheating issue...but the other probs your having also sounds like an air leak, especially the stalling under load. Have you checked all the little hoses in the engine for splits / disconnections...the leak would be after the maf. Im guessing the airfilter is clean and clear.
Well when I went the breakers the ECU he had was a lot bigger, more square where mine is oblong shape. Helet me try it anyway but must be nats or just totally different cos when I plug it in it dont even prime the pump.
Not been able to get another today but have found one a bit further away that I'll go for in morning. I got a new temp sensor and fitted that too and it still goes into the red and no fan.. Although the car does sound rough atm and does still have a blip it seems a little better since I have re-fitted my own ECU but I did tighten the bolt rather tight so dunno if thats made a difference.
Im convinced that the problem lies with ecu now or maybe a connection somewhere but i have checked all that I can see. I can't see any splits in hoses ect and airfilter is pretty new and clean.
Not been able to get another today but have found one a bit further away that I'll go for in morning. I got a new temp sensor and fitted that too and it still goes into the red and no fan.. Although the car does sound rough atm and does still have a blip it seems a little better since I have re-fitted my own ECU but I did tighten the bolt rather tight so dunno if thats made a difference.
Im convinced that the problem lies with ecu now or maybe a connection somewhere but i have checked all that I can see. I can't see any splits in hoses ect and airfilter is pretty new and clean.
Then its pre nats, I have a 1.3 pre nats ecu you could try (it will work on your 1.0 as far as i know)
If you pay postage you are welcome to try it and if it solves the problems then you could buy it off me for £25 (which is what i paid at the breakers). otherwise just post it back.
when you looked at the wiring did you check for loose/damaged pins in the plug? if they are fine then my money is on fautly ecu.
If you pay postage you are welcome to try it and if it solves the problems then you could buy it off me for £25 (which is what i paid at the breakers). otherwise just post it back.
when you looked at the wiring did you check for loose/damaged pins in the plug? if they are fine then my money is on fautly ecu.
Noddie,
Big thanks for your offer of the ecu I appreciate that but I have one organised in the morning and breaker is only half hr away plus he only wants a tenner (same as the guy today).Might as well try that at least I can have a go tomorrow. If there are any problems or it turns out to be different then I will take up your offer.
Big thanks for your offer of the ecu I appreciate that but I have one organised in the morning and breaker is only half hr away plus he only wants a tenner (same as the guy today).Might as well try that at least I can have a go tomorrow. If there are any problems or it turns out to be different then I will take up your offer.
Yep well im mad that way :laugh: daughter was gonna scrap it when mot ran out but I took it and had new xmember on it and got full ticket.Car was a lil cracker till all this started and besides it's a learning curve, I know a bit more about the thing now
Anyhow I just changed the ecu and so far it hasn't spluttered or died But it is still getting hot and fan is not kicking in.. I have replaced the temp sensor with a new one (red cap) and if it short it direct from battery it works so its not the actual fan, Is there another sensor for it anywhere ? the one above the temp sensor that has 1 wire on it ... is that for temp gauge ?.
Well wife went out in it half hour ago and just txt to say she got there and no probs so fingers crossed. Just wish I could sort this fan.
so what would you recommend now with the fan Frank ?. Should I have it bridged so its on all the time or do you think I still have a problem from ecu not switchin it on when needed.
I just found a old post about the connector on temp sensor having grease all over it and it caused the guys problems which sound similar to what I was having, also my connector was covered in grease so may try cleanin it all off incase it's hindering the connection. I thought it was done intentionally to stop it rusting :laugh:
I just found a old post about the connector on temp sensor having grease all over it and it caused the guys problems which sound similar to what I was having, also my connector was covered in grease so may try cleanin it all off incase it's hindering the connection. I thought it was done intentionally to stop it rusting :laugh:
:down: well had to nip out and tow it home again...:blush:
No time to play with it now. its the one day i work these days. So back to square one 2morra unless the ecu needs to settle in as you say. Does car need to be running for that frank or as long as its all plugged in it sorts itself ?. Think I will spend 2morra cleaning every single connector on that car as a few have grease on em. Only thing that's not been changed is tank... maybe crap from when i ran low on fuel as I said at beginning ? anyway ive had enough for now it's got me beat.
No time to play with it now. its the one day i work these days. So back to square one 2morra unless the ecu needs to settle in as you say. Does car need to be running for that frank or as long as its all plugged in it sorts itself ?. Think I will spend 2morra cleaning every single connector on that car as a few have grease on em. Only thing that's not been changed is tank... maybe crap from when i ran low on fuel as I said at beginning ? anyway ive had enough for now it's got me beat.
so its dieing just as before again? i would connect an led to the negative going to the fuel pump and then the other side to chassy. that way the led will light up when the pump is running and you will know thats not the problem (if it isnt the problem, which it still might be)
hope that makes sense.
hope that makes sense.
Yes it died again yesterday when the wife took it out. Have a bulb here ready to connect now and then I will take it up and down road and see if it dies again.
I have just done the solder fix too, not sure it needed it but everything else has been changed so ..
Ok if I try the bulb trick, wouldn't the bulb go out anyway once it dies or should the pump be running cos the ignition is still on ?.
I was gonna get another pump anyway,there is one in for sale section but guy hasn't been on for a while.There is a micra just come in scrappers but obviously it too could be the reason the car is in there :laugh: still think i will get it on monday just to see cos he only wants a tenner.
