Is that ur scientific view dave
<----- Yeah, cause I'm a right NERD
Is that ur scientific view dave
Tyres are polyester. Other factors come in when it comes to grip... like how solid the tyre shoulder is, how stiff the carcass is... eco tyres for example will have a VERY stiff carcass/sidewall, to minimise sidewall flex. This increases fuel efficiency but decreases grip. A539's, T1R's etc have very little treadways on the shoulder. This is where the majority of the load is carried mid corner, and the more rubber there is (e.g. fewer treadways) the more grip you have, at the expense of poor water displacement so reduced wet weather cornering grip.
Lol.. Ikr<----- Yeah, cause I'm a right NERD
Preaching to the choir here.Too much stiffness can lead to too much grip as mentioned above so it obviously can happen, even if it is a side effect of something else. Too much grip was a massive problem when I was karting, too.
Grip on the road under normal road conditions doing the speed limit and driving sensibly yeah, but not rallying! Most road tyres are made for functionality, least amount of wear and least amount of noise, not high grip under lots of load.
Yeah budget tyres are harder, but they got incredibly hot for only a few laps. They wear getting hot in the first/second corner.
I agree about pro teams.
I also agree about not having 100% grip at all times because depending on the surface, situations, tyre wear, weather conditions etc the car can be too grippy. I 100% believe that!
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You've got that backwardsTherefore its pointless trying making a car handle on cheap tyres with sidewalls like jelly, no?
If I was going to run those tyres 24/7 I'd make an effort to get the car handling as good as possible on them but they were sat in the back garden taking up room
In the juniors we used to run on Pirelli P700's and a few juniors had them pop off the rim :/
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You've got that backwards
Eco tyres have very stiff sidewalls not soft
That's called lateral grip. Regardless of material a sidewall will always flex unless its solid. Which is impossibleSo why are the sidewalls bending then? I never said they were eco tyres, I'm just saying the sidewall is like jelly because they're cheap! Drive them yourself and find out, not all tyres are the same are they?
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That's called lateral grip. Regardless of material a sidewall will always flex unless its solid. Which is impossible
If every tyre was the same there would only be need for certain parameters for max grip.
I use standard eco winter tyres to forest rally a grpA cosworth.. believe me I know they're plenty capable
Not saying there isnt advantages, sidewall strength is one so they dont pop, your swaying from the original point. You're trying to tell me setting up on cheap tyres then running expensive ones doesnt work... I'm telling you it does. Whether you like it or not... it works
All comes down to cost. I can chew up 3/4 sets of gravel tyres in testing and at £80 a tyre its just not a cost effective way to set the car up
I found a tyre that had the same contact patch, sidewall size and material. Set up on 4 sets, ran the proper gravel tyres, got a 1st in class and 2nd O/A.. results speak for themselves.
If you're in a championship where you run 1 control tyre then it pays to use a proper set to set up on. But my events are never the same let alone on the same terrain. Tarmac Rally is essentially track racing and much simpler to set up
Contrary to popular opinion, it's possible to get a car handling very well on quite skinny tyres. That's because there's a huge difference between road holding and handling.
If you've a car that grips, grips, grips like **** to a blanket - and then when it lets go kills you -then I don't reckon you've a car that handles very well. On the other hand, if you've a car that you can make understeer, oversteer, or be neutral then you've got a car handling well.
Fitting big sticky tyres is the last step, not the first. When the car is handling (or you're driving it) in a way that inspires confidence and gives you excellent control, then's the time to up the grip levels. Generally, the car will then handle in exactly the same way, but at higher speeds and cornering loads.
Won't higher grip mean more car lean in corners, requiring more camber, stiffer springs, stiffer shocks to control the faster weight transfer etc?
If you've got the base setup it wont matter. Its about balancing and distributing weight in a controlled manner, higher speeds mean fast transfer, higher G means more transfer. The 2 are not the same though. That's where the art of damping comes inWon't higher grip mean more car lean in corners, requiring more camber, stiffer springs, stiffer shocks to control the faster weight transfer etc?
PARDON!!!!!!!!! I'll pass on that offerno idea davy.. just freestyling... feel me?
I once saw this article from Autospeed.com bout handling & grip
http://tech.mirage-performance.com/...d articles/article0223[1]Cornering basics.pdf
I just cause arguments lol
Also 48's ain't really majorly sticky grippy tyres compared to what others run, so I guess they're the right tyres to set up on? A move to even more expensive slicks would prove good results but that's way out of budget to be spending on every event.
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I just run Avon Semi Slicks.
So much better than even performance Road tyres from Yokohama, got rid of all the (little) the understeer my car had... Will have to buy some more
Like I say there's so many other factors.I can understand it but on skinny half decent tyres not skinny terrible tyres
I also just asked an up and coming rally driver and he said that he can have two sets of tyres, same compound and both of the same level grip that can completely change the handling of the car because they're different make tyres. Which shows how much of an influence a small change in tyres makes, never mind a big change!
And the middle paragraph says bad things about having too much grip
H701, what was that rally? I want to know if I've seen you about on the stages.
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Point provenAlso 48's ain't really majorly sticky grippy tyres compared to what others run, so I guess they're the right tyres to set up on? A move to even more expensive slicks would prove good results but that's way out of budget to be spending on every event.
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Point proven
Ok mate. I know nothing. Please teach me your wisdomNo it's really not... 48's are a performance tyre to set up on and are made to perform well.
THESE ARE NOT
These are the tyres I had on to test, NOT GRIPPY AT ALL AND NOT ANY GOOD TO SET UP ON.
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Lol I think you are missing what we were saying at the start. Lol it was never this seriousWhy?! Are you mad?! What a waste of money when you could just get £30 Eco tyres! Ha
See, they are the kind of tyres to maybe set up on if the budget is tight.. Some performance road tyres that are half decent.
Not not these things
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Like I say there's so many other factors.
I don't care what "up and coming" rally drivers think. I'll stick with tried, tested and proven. They didn't have "decent" tyres in the 70s and look what they achieced. Could tell you all day long but I don't think you'll listen to me regardless so I'll save my energy
Being as I took the suspension route of specialisation as a trade I like to think after a few years I know what I'm doing
Have a look around. Chances are if you've seen me it'll be a white and red evo 7. The track rod rally springs to mind.
Finally you realise you know nothing... Still waiting for this message with ur numberOk mate. I know nothing. Please teach me your wisdom
Deviated from the point completely to the point I'm borderline being called a suspension novice. I lol'dLol I think you are missing what we were saying at the start. Lol it was never this serious
Lol I think you are missing what we were saying at the start. Lol it was never this serious
Well u do know nothing mate... Msc are like do a gearbox change without a crane.. Split the engine and box in the bay... I say...Deviated from the point completely to the point I'm borderline being called a suspension novice. I lol'd
Lol... You watch me... I have rocked cheddar Gorge with 155 ditch finders .When I say cheap tyres I mean scrapyard tyres but what andy just replied "point proven" to tells me that his budget tyre is a yoko 48?
There is no way in hell that you can make a car handle on the above photographed tyres!
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Initial D style I betLol... You watch me... I have rocked cheddar Gorge with 155 ditch finders .
You forget or don't know I devote every waking moment to suspension and handling. Believe me if I wanted the car to handle on those tyres it will handle with those tyres onWhen I say cheap tyres I mean scrapyard tyres but what andy just replied "point proven" to tells me that his budget tyre is a yoko 48?
There is no way in hell that you can make a car handle on the above photographed tyres!
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I've heard the storiesLol... You watch me... I have rocked cheddar Gorge with 155 ditch finders .
On a comfy rug. Posh or whatWell u do know nothing mate... Msc are like do a gearbox change without a crane.. Split the engine and box in the bay... I say...do a wheelie
Seeing the other car flip and nearly land on ur bonnet... I felt like I was in some cheesy fast and furious stuntI've heard the stories
Quite the opposite lolInitial D style I bet
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You're always in a cheesy faat and furious sceneSeeing the other car flip and nearly land on ur bonnet... I felt like I was in some cheesy fast and furious stunt
Yeah I was saying he bottom bitYou forget or don't know I devote every waking moment to suspension and handling. Believe me if I wanted the car to handle on those tyres it will handle with those tyres on
The point was cheaper tyre to set up. Advance to expensive tyre to amplify effect. THAT was our point
You forget or don't know I devote every waking moment to suspension and handling. Believe me if I wanted the car to handle on those tyres it will handle with those tyres on
The point was cheaper tyre to set up. Advance to expensive tyre to amplify effect. THAT was our point
Well it wasnt till someone with large and expensive tyres... Crashed. Whilst I was running **** skinny ditch findersInitial D style I bet
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Well there must be grip there... Cause like.. They have to be approved for road use? Am I mixing something?I'm not questioning your suspension guru ability because I don't know you.
I am trying to get my opinion across though, but it's obviously wrong.
I'd prefer set up on part worn 48's or at least a mild performance tyre, not ditchfinders. I believe there is no advantage in finding grip that isnt there.
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I didn't mean literally NO grip at all. Obviously they have to grip. But while being driven sensibly at the speed limit and not in a manner that will get you pulled over for reckless driving. They are made for grannies in Micras so they don't have to replace the tyres for 10 years.Well there must be grip there... Cause like.. They have to be approved for road use? Am I mixing something?