Turbo/sc/nitrous

ollyc98

ollyc98

Ex. Club Member
So as not to junk up franks thread any more I started this one. Discuss....

£350 for a nitrous install, as much extra power as you want, also gives colder EGT's.

The extra heat from a turbo will cause damage to a standard engine, more than a properly tuned nitrous system will
 
Too cheap. Probably uses nasty solenoids and offers poor distribution. Almost guaranteed to melt any CG engine as the inlet manifolds have such poor distribution when used for a fuel/air mix. Been there done that etc.
 
Yes, but would rapidly work out a lot more expensive with the refills.
 
Aah, forgot about the refills lol. I still think it's a better system than a turbo (at least on paper, I haven't got any practical experience in any of these)
 
well after having a few cars with turbos and having been in kris's/solarice super s i would say SC all day long! less hassel and its just as much fun, plus its more of a "sleeper" an turbo's are more common than a supercharger and it give more of a "wow" factor when talking about it in a micra.

not had nitrous so carnt comment, only thing that puts me off is the refils where as you dont need to top a SC or turbo up
 
Iv'e been in cars running turbos and nitrious kits.

You can do a diy turbo kit cheap very cheap infact if you know what your doing.

Turbo for me also.
 
Turbos have lag, when you swap cars you can take your nitrous kit with you, if you want to double your nitrous power it costs £12 for new jets, it costs a load more to double your turbo output.
 
if nitrous was so good wouldnt it be more commonly seen around the streets?

personally i would go for turbo only because the sound even though they arent technically the best
 
Nitrous isn't so common because there's so much bad information around on it. If people realised how good it was they'd all have it. As soon as I can insure a nitrous kit I'll have one, they are cheaper to insure than turbo cars for me.

Also when you're off nitrous you retain factory fuel economy. Turbos ALWAYS use more fuel as they force in more air requiring more fuel.
 
throwing your fuel economy out the window means constant fun :) it should be the least of your worries if youre turboing a car
 
All i can comment on is my ST (super charger and turbo) and i honestly like both although fitting to an engine without would need the right parts and a good knowledge and doing properly to see good gains and minimal rebuild costs etc, turbo and i believe a nitrous car would require quite a bit of maintenance to keep it running sweet. If you do go for nitrous or turbo etc... make sure its all good as im learning first hand, rebuilding an engine is not really fun, interesting though (Y)
 
ollyc, can you give me a whole 101 on nitrous ive not been in a car with it and dont know much about it (never realy intrested me)

might be worth looking at to go on my k11 along with the turbo
 
Deffently turbo or s/c over nos for me too. turbo / sc will work out cheaper in the long run as you always have the power there, not having to swap bottles and get them refilled ect.
 
micras69 said:
ollyc, can you give me a whole 101 on nitrous ive not been in a car with it and dont know much about it (never realy intrested me)

might be worth looking at to go on my k11 along with the turbo
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You'd be better off finding a nitrous forum, I have been researching nitrous for months now in preparation for a build and I still don't know enough to start teaching others about it. The only advice I can give is stay away from cheap kits.
 
you know i always thought superchargers were the way forward and always thought they should turbo everything! from factory so less of the lag factor :)
 
ollyc98 said:
Turbos have lag, when you swap cars you can take your nitrous kit with you, if you want to double your nitrous power it costs £12 for new jets, it costs a load more to double your turbo output.
Click to expand...

have you owned a turbo'd car?? yes they have lag but for that split second then its boost all the way throughout gear changes aswell. from a standing start my micra doesnt have lag at all, and about doubling the power i already have and it will be even more once its setup so beat that with a nitrous kit.... dont think so
 
Stani1029 said:
have you owned a turbo'd car?? yes they have lag but for that split second then its boost all the way throughout gear changes aswell. from a standing start my micra doesnt have lag at all, and about doubling the power i already have and it will be even more once its setup so beat that with a nitrous kit.... dont think so
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I've driven a turbo diesel :p

All I'm saying is when you want to double the extra power from a turbo you need ECU remaps and whatnot. For nitrous you buy a couple of jets and some colder plugs.

Obviously if you are going mental with the power you'll need some major engine work.
 
Olly don't take this the wrong way but your posts do often come across as if you have read something but have absolutely no real experience about what you say at all, yet are trying to state it as proven fact.

Long term turbo beats N2O in every respect, it even works out significantly cheaper.

Do you know what turbo lag is? (without looking to google etc)

Like all cars you can adapt your driving to make use of available power, be it nitrous or turbo vtec or whatever. Turbo's still offer the best cost/performance/economy option of any tuning upgrade for performance if choosing between N2O/Supercharged/Turbo.
 
ollyc98 said:
Pretty much. Have you seen the tiny amounts of BHP americans get out of their V8's? V6 ftw :)
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I know of one particular V8 which I have witnessed personally. And it made over 1000bhp on the same dyno I used. In fact its the only car on that dyno ever to break the 1000bhp barrier.
 
As I have said from the start I have no real experience. But have done similar research into all 3 mentioned options and on paper nitrous looks best. I'm not saying it's fact it just seems nitrous is more 'tuneable'.

I'm quite prepared to listen to the views of more experienced people, if I didn't I'd never learn anything. When it was mentioned that refills cost money I realised that over time it won't be cheaper, but I still think it balances out as you aren't always on the nitrous, only when you need the extra bit of boost. It depends what sort of driving you want to do I guess.

From what I understand turbo lag is the time it takes for the turbo to spin up to speed and create boost.
 
I think you'd find Olly that you have a performance car to use it :). When I needed to save money the only option was for me to sell the Starlet (I know its not a full on performance car but whatever) because I couldn't help myself from driving it full acceleration, cos thats what I bought it for.
Interestingly the Super S is getting the same economy as the Starbo did so I've messed up there lol.
 
If you have a performance car then great. But for the car I'm going to tune (Reliant Robin) there aren't parts like forged pistons, turbo manifolds, copper headgaskets etc available so for ease of use nitrous has it for me.

And when I roll the bloody thing I can take my kit out and fit it in another car the same way I would a sound system.

So cost aside, the lazy part of me says nitrous.
 
ollyc98 said:
As I have said from the start I have no real experience. But have done similar research into all 3 mentioned options and on paper nitrous looks best. I'm not saying it's fact it just seems nitrous is more 'tuneable'.

I'm quite prepared to listen to the views of more experienced people, if I didn't I'd never learn anything. When it was mentioned that refills cost money I realised that over time it won't be cheaper, but I still think it balances out as you aren't always on the nitrous, only when you need the extra bit of boost. It depends what sort of driving you want to do I guess.

From what I understand turbo lag is the time it takes for the turbo to spin up to speed and create boost.
Click to expand...

I can tell your a sponge for any information for sure, you are just in my opinion a little to quick to hand out facts thats all. A nitrous refill is £40 it used to last me at most two weeks on the march ST. Say I am only filling it once a month, thats still nearly £500 a year. That and the cost of the nitrous your already in the region of a DIY turbo kit even if you get it mapped by someone like me.

You have to define turbo lag better. There are two parts to it, turbo lag and turbo threshold. Lag is the amount of time the turbo takes to spool in a region where it is able to make boost already. For example you have a turbo that makes 1 bar @ 4000 rpm your coasting closed throttle at 5000 rpm. you floor it, the turbo spools to 1 bar, the time it takes to make full boost is the lag.
Turbo boost threshold is the point at which the turbo starts to make boost. If you were to have a huge turbo on a small engine the turbo may not spool till 5000 rpm, this may not be a laggy turbo, its one with a high boost threshold. Once your above this threshold the lag may in fact be small.

HTH.

Ed
 
Thanks for that, now I understand turbos (a bit) better :D I didn't know nitrous was so expensive.

Anyway, having this new information I can't argue my point any further, anyone care to discuss supercharger vs turbocharger?
 
typical superchargers gives a progressive (flat) torque curve see below:

4..jpg

turbos on the other hand are more efficient but have a more aggressive ride, and when driving in an area where its not met its boost threshold turbo cars feel very underpowered.

This graph shows wheel hp but the torue curve is shown clearly (the dotted one) and its not nearly as flat as the supercharger above.

IMG_7362..JPG

Typically turbo charged cars feel more fun to drive as you get a rush of power. Infact many manufactures will try to do all they can to remove this to the point that the turbo alsost is un-noticed. but that to me is boring!
 
So a turbo could be considered similar to my 2-stroke, pretty flat and at a certain rpm a nice kick?

Personally I enjoy a sudden rush of power, it makes it more noticeable, even if it's less useful.
 
I think even with turbo lag it wont be bad depending on what car your applying it to, and if its a cg, well :p

From what i see turbo works very well! :)
 
come on people think out the box :)

V8, 4 wheel drive, super charger on the top, turbo either side and nos, best of all worlds!!

they all have their advantages and disadvantages, the only way to cure all the disadvantages is to use them all together, but if you can only have one then turbo is probably the one, tho super chargers are so awesome!
 
mckenziecz said:
get supercharger then!
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wtf do you know what a s/c is? it gives a very latteral pull of power through the rev range where as a turbo would give the sudden rush of power ollyc98 talks of, the nitrous idea i was actually thinking myself today but nitrous is always the last option once all other things have been tried used and maxed out, nitrous is the last push. ollyc98 im guessing youve been watching fast and furious, very few manufacturers can and will recommend a push button f&f style nitrous shot due to the users not really understanding how nitrous works and then they blow their engines!!
This bollox about turbo lag, mate i have a t2871r powered sr20det and it has very little lag, what size turbo are you thinking a t28 would be far to big on a micra engine anyway, a smaller more eficient or even standard figaro turbo would have virtually no lag, nitrous has lag as you cant (well not cant shouldnt) use nitrous untill well up the revs and on full throttle as the fuel injection solenoid is not made for low revs so would over fuel causing mega rich running resulting in a loss of possible bhp! not to mention possible bore wash knackering the engine. Nitrous is good when used properly and installed by a pro using real makes with guarentees like NOS, wizards of NOS etc not these cheapo ones youre asking for trouble. N2o should be respected its very usefull but turbos are better, cheaper, more useable.
turbo vs supercharger debate will go on all night but at the end of the day the facts are
superchargers
good points
latteral constant power
easy installation (compared to turbo)
good power gains
swapping for smaller pulleys make more power easily done

bad points
use around 60% stock bhp/energy to run!!
expensive
have to match the right type of charger roots, etc
not as tunable as a turbo

turbo
good points
cheap to buy
use 6%percent of wasted energy and nothing else
more efficient
massively tuneable
if your like me and a secret chav you can fit a nice big dump valve

bad points
hard to install
expensive to convert a n/a engine
larger turbos cause more lag
 
also talking about getting bigger nitrous nozzles you should never use more than stock bhp jets so if your in a 60bhp car then thats your maximum you should add!
also on price for upping the nozzles £12 quid or whatever, although i dont like manual bleed valves they are a few quid once bought you can turn the boost up as far as the engine/turbo will take so imo turbo wins again
 
gtsnissanb;420958 ollyc98 im guessing youve been watching fast and furious said:
I knew about nitrous long before those tools that made that awful movie came along. I've always had an interest in drag racing (bikes though) and nitrous comes with that.

The only system I would consider installing is one that kicks in on full throttle, no danger of messing up there.
Click to expand...
 
ollyc98 said:
I knew about nitrous long before those tools that made that awful movie came along. I've always had an interest in drag racing (bikes though) and nitrous comes with that.

The only system I would consider installing is one that kicks in on full throttle, no danger of messing up there.
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minimiser or maximizer are good choices the problem being once youve run all these throttle switches you end up running into serious costs plus nitrous frpm a reputable supplier im guessing you want a wet kit as direct port is not a good plan as you tap into the engine insted of blowing nitrous down the intake. then paying for refills every few weeks!
a turbo kit wont cost that much
small turbo
oil lines t piece into oil pressure switch
modified stock manifold modified down pipe
fuel turned up get it r/r ed and tuned to run safely on high comp na engine at around 7-8psi im guessing?
ive done it on a d15 civic and my b18c integra whole kit cost £500
end result 250bhp@9psi
 
mckenziecz said:
gtsnissanb: yes i do now. dont need to read your essay
Click to expand...

well maybe you should give the lad correct information

olly : So a turbo could be considered similar to my 2-stroke, pretty flat and at a certain rpm a nice kick?

Personally I enjoy a sudden rush of power, it makes it more noticeable, even if it's less useful.

which implies turbo/nitrous

your post ; get supercharger then!
:wasntme:
im hoping thats sarcasm:glare:
 

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