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PollyMobiles Rebuild
- Thread starter pollyp
- Start date
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pollyp
Club Member
yeah the center of the wheel ain't exactly precise or smooth. I remounted it several times till it no longer sways sideways, tried the redresser to reduce most of the undulations and it's close enough, not perfect but'll do the job.
short of going out n buy a new wheel.
OP
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pollyp
Club Member
got more toys tday,
the quick change arrived
regreased these o-ring plungers
installed base
and adjusting the tool is so much easier and the way it cuts seems abit more rigid
definately not happy with these red carbide tipped cheapo tools cos they blunt easily and when I try grinding em, the soft steel body grinds easily but the harder carbide tip is so much more difficult to sharpen, takes alot of time & effort each time (especially with an unbalanced grinder shaking everything)
the luvely new sharp indexable carbide tools arrived
debated whether to return or try it out.
maybe the heat or frustration got to me but after the cheapo tools kept blunting and grinding is pita, thought fookit I already paid and got em here lets see if they're any good
fit in holder
centered and tested on softer Alu rod and omg it cuts it like soft butter.
the swarf is soo consistant and finish is silky smooth
ok I'm sticking with these carbide tips.
the quick change arrived
regreased these o-ring plungers
installed base
and adjusting the tool is so much easier and the way it cuts seems abit more rigid
definately not happy with these red carbide tipped cheapo tools cos they blunt easily and when I try grinding em, the soft steel body grinds easily but the harder carbide tip is so much more difficult to sharpen, takes alot of time & effort each time (especially with an unbalanced grinder shaking everything)
the luvely new sharp indexable carbide tools arrived
debated whether to return or try it out.
maybe the heat or frustration got to me but after the cheapo tools kept blunting and grinding is pita, thought fookit I already paid and got em here lets see if they're any good
fit in holder
centered and tested on softer Alu rod and omg it cuts it like soft butter.
the swarf is soo consistant and finish is silky smooth
ok I'm sticking with these carbide tips.
OP
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pollyp
Club Member
is it a wheel dresser or stone one paul ? and you have to hold it firmly to the rest too eh
it's one of these
and didn't help that the unbalanced wheels simply shakes the whole machine, table, and flimsy rest.
OP
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pollyp
Club Member
Gr8 tip frank
OP
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pollyp
Club Member
Called a devil stone Paul
what a strange name. initially thought it was a knife sharpening stone.
only a fiver online too
OP
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pollyp
Club Member
ah crap I read the wrong measurements, no wonder 60mm seemed abit too large for a driveshaft
I'll have to return it, then remeasure the actual shaft before ordering again
h701micra
Deactivated Account
Different material
Called carborundum < auto correct can spell it. I couldn't lol
h701micra
Deactivated Account
Use thicker walls to lathe down, that way both inner and outer diameter will be square to each other, which is no guarantee abd damn near impossible on an un-machined surfaceah crap I read the wrong measurements, no wonder 60mm seemed abit too large for a driveshaft
I'll have to return it, then remeasure the actual shaft before ordering again
You probably know this but just in case
OP
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pollyp
Club Member
side of the engine having another big oil leak
crossmember crack getting bigger after several launches at santapod, really needs replacing soon
normal debris on the gearbox plug from the LSD plates
LSD oil still good
the driveshaft is 25.92mm dia
the loose bore of the LSD casing is 26.2mm dia, 25.8mm long with a 2.50mm chamfer
just ordered a 25.4 x 28.58 x 38.1mm plain bearing
but according to calcs I'd have to machine the bronze sleeve down to just 0.14mm about the same as a drinks can!!!
even with my limited lathing skills, that's near impossible on a semi-accurate mini-lathe without the wafer thin walls collapsing.
my options are either to take out the gearbox, strip the LSD and enlarge the hole for the bronze bush (too big for my lathe, would have to take to another machinist),
or I lathe the inner driveshaft abit (reducing the oiling grooves and possibly weaken the shaft)
crossmember crack getting bigger after several launches at santapod, really needs replacing soon
normal debris on the gearbox plug from the LSD plates
LSD oil still good
the driveshaft is 25.92mm dia
the loose bore of the LSD casing is 26.2mm dia, 25.8mm long with a 2.50mm chamfer
just ordered a 25.4 x 28.58 x 38.1mm plain bearing
but according to calcs I'd have to machine the bronze sleeve down to just 0.14mm about the same as a drinks can!!!
even with my limited lathing skills, that's near impossible on a semi-accurate mini-lathe without the wafer thin walls collapsing.
my options are either to take out the gearbox, strip the LSD and enlarge the hole for the bronze bush (too big for my lathe, would have to take to another machinist),
or I lathe the inner driveshaft abit (reducing the oiling grooves and possibly weaken the shaft)
Is the drive shaft inner C.V too small or the LSD hole too large?
If the CV is too small I'd get a new or different one if the LSD is too large isn't it the problem of whoever made it? Or has it been worn somehow?
OP
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pollyp
Club Member
the RH LSD hole is slightly too large. the LH hole is perfactly fine.
not sure if it was made too large or if it was worn larger over the years cos I barely remember it didn't make the high speed wobbly noise when new.
OP
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pollyp
Club Member
I'll make afew measurements to check it's possible to shift the driveshaft in further, may have to lathe a new groove for the retaining clip
OP
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pollyp
Club Member
ur a clever guy frank
measured some more details and just look at how close this dust shield is to the gearbox casing around the oil seal (circled).
coupled with the shaft wobbling about by 0.28mm I suspect this could be where it'll be rubbing/whirring at high speed and during turns.
and ur spot on, there's about 3mm gap between the oil seal and the driveshaft face.
I could lathe the oil seal surface 3mm further along, and perfectly match the 26.2mm dia bore where it touches by approx 2-3mm to stop it wobbling.
this shifts the shaft 3mm inward so will need to cut a new square groove for the spring clip to keep it retained snug,
and remove the dust shield to clear the gearbox (circled).
hmm actually, before the big task of lathing the shaft I wonder what if I first simply knock that metal dust shield off and see if it's stopped the rubbing noise?
then if it still rattles/whirrs/knocks, I'll try lathing it to fit more snug.
SuperUno
Buy & Sell Member
I run the long shaft without a retaining clip, have done for years. I just can not fit the shaft to the LS Diff with the clip in place, only issue till now was the shaft falling out when i left it hanging when doing a different job on the front suspension. Caused a massive puddle of g/box oil on the drive, which I think I just about got away with hiding from the missis!
OP
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pollyp
Club Member
woopsidaisy, plenty of towels n powder on that puddleI run the long shaft without a retaining clip, have done for years. I just can not fit the shaft to the LS Diff with the clip in place, only issue till now was the shaft falling out when i left it hanging when doing a different job on the front suspension. Caused a massive puddle of g/box oil on the drive, which I think I just about got away with hiding from the missis!
was the clip just not allowing the shaft to be inserted? (the clip has to be bent to a certain dia and kept perfectly centered & concentric to the shaft with grease, or else it'll simply shift offset & jam),
or was it not retaining the shaft once fully inserted?
OP
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pollyp
Club Member
thx m8, hope I can soon overcome my anxiety to find a job I'll enjoy.
that was just some precision measurements and very simple 3D modelling in solidworks
OP
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pollyp
Club Member
if they have the same inner dia, but it's of minor importance at the mo
OP
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pollyp
Club Member
received the bronze bush tday
the sintered bearing is very porous and oily
began lathing it to 26mm bore/26.2mm dia
this porous oily sintered bush creates very fine dusty oily mess that clumps together and to everything so will be a pain to clean
I managed to bore the insides to exactly 26mm but when cutting the outer dia I only managed to get down to 26.5mm (0.5mm thickness) till I noticed it beginning to flex at the end and cut unevenly
it slots so nicely over the driveshaft, gotta love precision
BUT it wasn't thin enough cos it doesn't fit inside the LSD hole, it had to be 26.2mm
so that was an interesting challenge but wasn't feasible.
so lets fit the driveshaft back in with the 0.3mm slack but without the dust shield
went for a drive and the subtle whirring above 40mph is still there
the sintered bearing is very porous and oily
began lathing it to 26mm bore/26.2mm dia
this porous oily sintered bush creates very fine dusty oily mess that clumps together and to everything so will be a pain to clean
I managed to bore the insides to exactly 26mm but when cutting the outer dia I only managed to get down to 26.5mm (0.5mm thickness) till I noticed it beginning to flex at the end and cut unevenly
it slots so nicely over the driveshaft, gotta love precision
BUT it wasn't thin enough cos it doesn't fit inside the LSD hole, it had to be 26.2mm
so that was an interesting challenge but wasn't feasible.
so lets fit the driveshaft back in with the 0.3mm slack but without the dust shield
went for a drive and the subtle whirring above 40mph is still there
OP
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pollyp
Club Member
h701micra
Deactivated Account
Experience Paul that's all
OP
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pollyp
Club Member
tday received a pair of HSS square ends to sharpen
and a small pilot hole bit
I was looking through some bike bits in the garage and found that the seat posts are 27mm dia alloy and this old fork had a 25x28mm dia steel shaft, perfect for machining a super-thin sleeve
I recently saw a vid about how a mini-lathe could cut better by running in reverse
so curiously I tried it on mine and it works quite good.
following andyH701 advise, I managed to lathe the alloy seat tube down to precisely 60mm for using as an inner supporting bung, tis an awesome feeling to see such accuracy
cleaned up the outside of the steel tube.
thing I found about the lathe chuck is that it ain't exactly centered. after lathing one end smooth n flat, I swap ends and it'd be off-center, suppose can only use one end for now.
bored the inside of the steel tube to 60.01mm and the alloy bung just about slips in by 10mm (there's a very very slight taper probably from the bore tool poking so far out from the toolpost)
now with the insides supported, I can take tiny cuts getting so close to 60.2mm
maybe it was a good thing the alloy bung didn't go all the way cos I think the alloy was getting warm/expand & wobble slightly and causing the tip to cut too close and begin to create holes.
the rest of the steel tube not supported by the alloy bung was bout 60.25 - 60.30mm
cut & file the ends off with a dremel
and voila, the sleeve thickness ranges from 0.13 - 0.20mm, that's as close as I'll get tbh
soon see if it fits
and a small pilot hole bit
I was looking through some bike bits in the garage and found that the seat posts are 27mm dia alloy and this old fork had a 25x28mm dia steel shaft, perfect for machining a super-thin sleeve
I recently saw a vid about how a mini-lathe could cut better by running in reverse
so curiously I tried it on mine and it works quite good.
following andyH701 advise, I managed to lathe the alloy seat tube down to precisely 60mm for using as an inner supporting bung, tis an awesome feeling to see such accuracy
cleaned up the outside of the steel tube.
thing I found about the lathe chuck is that it ain't exactly centered. after lathing one end smooth n flat, I swap ends and it'd be off-center, suppose can only use one end for now.
bored the inside of the steel tube to 60.01mm and the alloy bung just about slips in by 10mm (there's a very very slight taper probably from the bore tool poking so far out from the toolpost)
now with the insides supported, I can take tiny cuts getting so close to 60.2mm
maybe it was a good thing the alloy bung didn't go all the way cos I think the alloy was getting warm/expand & wobble slightly and causing the tip to cut too close and begin to create holes.
the rest of the steel tube not supported by the alloy bung was bout 60.25 - 60.30mm
cut & file the ends off with a dremel
and voila, the sleeve thickness ranges from 0.13 - 0.20mm, that's as close as I'll get tbh
soon see if it fits
OP
OP
pollyp
Club Member
to correct the lathe chuck off-center, I needed a really smooth, round, straight reference rod and the shafts from my old coilover dampers came in handy
a quick jig to hold the dial indicator from my bore gauge kit.
the chuck is about 0.07-0.09mm offset and with the reading getting bigger further away from the chuck, it's also angled slightly off-axis.
I had to grind a small amount off the backing plate to give the chuck room to shift around, then with the chuck securing nuts loosened I nudged the chuck with a rubber hammer till the dial is 0.01-0.03mm offset. the accuracy is very dependant on how the 3-jaw chuck clamps onto the rod each time.
the 2 x 14mm parting blade arrived but this cheapo quick-change post ain't made right. it only has a 1mm lip and doesn't clamp squarely. it's guaranteed to slip off dangerously under load
so figured I could setup the lathe like this, fit my dremel milling bit on the chuck and use it as a milling machine
now the blade is secured much safer
the lathe cross slide handle has alot of play when changing direction. I previously tried to remove this handle with a hammer to access the mechanism but was unsuccesful.
so this time made this simple puller which worked better.
there's no bearing but just a simple lip. there's a 0.07mm play in the cavity (don't have any washer that thin) so I just sanded & sanded the steel face down till it's snug enough
a quick jig to hold the dial indicator from my bore gauge kit.
the chuck is about 0.07-0.09mm offset and with the reading getting bigger further away from the chuck, it's also angled slightly off-axis.
I had to grind a small amount off the backing plate to give the chuck room to shift around, then with the chuck securing nuts loosened I nudged the chuck with a rubber hammer till the dial is 0.01-0.03mm offset. the accuracy is very dependant on how the 3-jaw chuck clamps onto the rod each time.
the 2 x 14mm parting blade arrived but this cheapo quick-change post ain't made right. it only has a 1mm lip and doesn't clamp squarely. it's guaranteed to slip off dangerously under load
so figured I could setup the lathe like this, fit my dremel milling bit on the chuck and use it as a milling machine
now the blade is secured much safer
the lathe cross slide handle has alot of play when changing direction. I previously tried to remove this handle with a hammer to access the mechanism but was unsuccesful.
so this time made this simple puller which worked better.
there's no bearing but just a simple lip. there's a 0.07mm play in the cavity (don't have any washer that thin) so I just sanded & sanded the steel face down till it's snug enough
OP
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pollyp
Club Member
a project that's been taking me few days to resolve was my dads bike where the chain kept falling off the big front pedal sprocket when in low gear (offset between the large front & rear sprockets too large).
I lathed this shaft to hold the cogs from a rear derailer and use it as an idler gear to keep the chain moving straight to/from the pedal gear
idler cogs mounted to a stiff L-bar bolted to the frame.
also notice I welded up a new pedal sprocket closer to the center to reduce the offset between front/rear gears
(welded the big sprocket onto an old steel cutting disc)
but this didn't work. the steep angle of the chain simply made it skip off the cogs, especially when changing down-gear and the chain rattles up/down.
also the sprocket wasn't welded perfectly straight & concentric on the flat disc.
so made these flanged idler wheels to hold the sides of the chain
this kinda worked (flange wasn't high enough to enclose the chain) but due to the oscillating shape of the chain on the smooth wheel, it vibrates too much and very noisy.
so rather than use this scrapheap welded off-center pedal sprocket, decided to use the original straight crank sprocket and rather than lathe & retap a new length of rod, I lathed a threaded rod to hold the cog
the straight round pedal sprocket helped but the angled chain still skips off
instead of using wheels to guide the chain, I decided to fully enclose the chain with a tube so it has no chance of skipping off the pedal sprocket.
wanted to flare this tube to smoothly guide the chain from all angles, so made this cone forming tool
welded them to threaded rod for adjustments
mounted to the L-bar, it now works soo well
other than the slight chatter of the chain running along the tubes, the chain no longer falls off
christ that was quite a distraction and made a mess in the garage.
now I can begin fixing the loose driveshaft
I lathed this shaft to hold the cogs from a rear derailer and use it as an idler gear to keep the chain moving straight to/from the pedal gear
idler cogs mounted to a stiff L-bar bolted to the frame.
also notice I welded up a new pedal sprocket closer to the center to reduce the offset between front/rear gears
(welded the big sprocket onto an old steel cutting disc)
but this didn't work. the steep angle of the chain simply made it skip off the cogs, especially when changing down-gear and the chain rattles up/down.
also the sprocket wasn't welded perfectly straight & concentric on the flat disc.
so made these flanged idler wheels to hold the sides of the chain
this kinda worked (flange wasn't high enough to enclose the chain) but due to the oscillating shape of the chain on the smooth wheel, it vibrates too much and very noisy.
so rather than use this scrapheap welded off-center pedal sprocket, decided to use the original straight crank sprocket and rather than lathe & retap a new length of rod, I lathed a threaded rod to hold the cog
the straight round pedal sprocket helped but the angled chain still skips off
instead of using wheels to guide the chain, I decided to fully enclose the chain with a tube so it has no chance of skipping off the pedal sprocket.
wanted to flare this tube to smoothly guide the chain from all angles, so made this cone forming tool
welded them to threaded rod for adjustments
mounted to the L-bar, it now works soo well
other than the slight chatter of the chain running along the tubes, the chain no longer falls off
christ that was quite a distraction and made a mess in the garage.
now I can begin fixing the loose driveshaft
OP
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pollyp
Club Member
so I removed the driveshaft tday, the thin sleeve just "barely" slipped over the shaft. the outer dia is now 60.3mm
did it work? no
the hole seems to be tighter than 60.3mm looking at how the chamfered hole has bashed the front edge in, it doesn't fit
so what size is the hole?
to test, I grabbed the pipe that I lathed precisely to 60mm outer dia and inserted into the LSD hole to check how much clearance there is.
it seems that the hole is tapered from the years of this driveshaft rattling about.
when fully inserted, the pipe only has a very tiny amount of slack but when it's 1/2 out, there's abit of play.
so the LSD bore is at fault, the driveshaft is fine n straight.
the driveshaft could've been lathed down to the dia of the splines at 24.7mm so the sleeve could be a thicker 0.625mm but that would get rid of the oiling grooves on the shaft, which I dunno how that'll affect lubrication.
really don't fancy taking the LSD out to get it machined either so I guess I'll just have to live with it
did it work? no
the hole seems to be tighter than 60.3mm looking at how the chamfered hole has bashed the front edge in, it doesn't fit
so what size is the hole?
to test, I grabbed the pipe that I lathed precisely to 60mm outer dia and inserted into the LSD hole to check how much clearance there is.
it seems that the hole is tapered from the years of this driveshaft rattling about.
when fully inserted, the pipe only has a very tiny amount of slack but when it's 1/2 out, there's abit of play.
so the LSD bore is at fault, the driveshaft is fine n straight.
the driveshaft could've been lathed down to the dia of the splines at 24.7mm so the sleeve could be a thicker 0.625mm but that would get rid of the oiling grooves on the shaft, which I dunno how that'll affect lubrication.
really don't fancy taking the LSD out to get it machined either so I guess I'll just have to live with it
OP
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pollyp
Club Member
just booked my ticket & 12:40 track time slot fot the Petrol & Pistons Show at Croft on 21/08/2016
http://petrolandpistons.co.uk/
have to learn I track I've never driven before.
hopefully Neil Jackson will be there in his white nismo k11 or silver lotus
If anyone is going, could pop by
http://petrolandpistons.co.uk/
have to learn I track I've never driven before.
hopefully Neil Jackson will be there in his white nismo k11 or silver lotus
If anyone is going, could pop by
OP
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pollyp
Club Member
checked the size of the LSD hole by lathing a tube diameter down till it fits.
found the inside is 60mm while the outside of the tapered hole is exactly 60.1mm
lets dismantle the inner joint so I can use the inner shaft as reference for lathing the new piece. cut off the one-piece boot clip
ew it's filled with this brown runny goo. wonder if I'll be alright using that dark grey CV grease I got from halfords
the inner shaft has a nicely machined lip, gr8 for clamping on the lathe
other than some little heat discolouration, ain't too bad inside
machined a tube upto 59.92mm inner dia
and it slips nicely over the 59.91mm shaft.
mount the assembly onto lathe, center it, then lathe the outer dia to precisely match the LSD bore
found the inside is 60mm while the outside of the tapered hole is exactly 60.1mm
lets dismantle the inner joint so I can use the inner shaft as reference for lathing the new piece. cut off the one-piece boot clip
ew it's filled with this brown runny goo. wonder if I'll be alright using that dark grey CV grease I got from halfords
the inner shaft has a nicely machined lip, gr8 for clamping on the lathe
other than some little heat discolouration, ain't too bad inside
machined a tube upto 59.92mm inner dia
and it slips nicely over the 59.91mm shaft.
mount the assembly onto lathe, center it, then lathe the outer dia to precisely match the LSD bore
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pollyp
Club Member
centered via the machined oil seal surface nearest the sleeve within 0.025mm
began shaving the sleeve outer dia down.
although the sleeve was bored to 59.92mm and just slid over the 59.91mm shaft, the sleeve would occasionally spin around whilst cutting which ruins the concentricity.
so to keep it still, just afew dabs of superglue helped
lathed it down to 60.05mm (took abit too much on the last cut).
getting about as thin as kitchen foil with the oil grooves showing up and how it's crinkling
the inner part might be too tight and the crinkles don't help, so I tried to split it off with a part tool, was worried it'll tear the thin sleeve so finished the cut with a craft blade
completed sleeve
fully inserted into LSD but there's still abit of rocking, perhaps the 60.05mm sleeve in the 60.1mm hole was still too loose? or maybe I should've left that crinkly inner section of the sleeve on?
meh it's better than nothing
certainly snug enough from the scratch marks
k reassemble & install the driveshafts tomorrow
began shaving the sleeve outer dia down.
although the sleeve was bored to 59.92mm and just slid over the 59.91mm shaft, the sleeve would occasionally spin around whilst cutting which ruins the concentricity.
so to keep it still, just afew dabs of superglue helped
lathed it down to 60.05mm (took abit too much on the last cut).
getting about as thin as kitchen foil with the oil grooves showing up and how it's crinkling
the inner part might be too tight and the crinkles don't help, so I tried to split it off with a part tool, was worried it'll tear the thin sleeve so finished the cut with a craft blade
completed sleeve
fully inserted into LSD but there's still abit of rocking, perhaps the 60.05mm sleeve in the 60.1mm hole was still too loose? or maybe I should've left that crinkly inner section of the sleeve on?
meh it's better than nothing
certainly snug enough from the scratch marks
k reassemble & install the driveshafts tomorrow
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pollyp
Club Member
Water? In the same way that mixing coolant & engine oil gives a choc milkshake look? Wonder how that happened cos the cv boot n clips look original n all intact n solidly secure.
I'll be ok using that grey cv grease?
Did you ever go through a reasonably deep puddle or ford?
There's air in the CV joint as well as grease, as the CV works it heats up and expands pushing some air out of the boot, immerse it in water and it suddenly cools the air contracts creating a suction, sucking in whatever is around it in the case of a puddle....water.
As a caver we'd get the same problem with supposedly waterproof headlamps...
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pollyp
Club Member
Nice explanation. The last time I drove through a deep ford was I think 2012 during heavy rain n poor country road drainage, enough to make the engine misfire for few secs.
I'll repack it with grey grease n hope for the best.
SuperUno
Buy & Sell Member
The grease needs to be CV / moly grease - https://www.gsfcarparts.com/981aa05...et_url_key##&utm_campaign=googleproductsearch
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pollyp
Club Member
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pollyp
Club Member
I wasn't satisfied that the driveshaft was only half snug, I didn't go through all this disassembly just to do it again later, so lets do this again properly
don't have any steel pipes that's 25-27mm dia, the only one's I found close are the fork stems off bicycles, so had to sacrifice this road bike frame that I'll never use cos it's too small
bored the steel tube to exactly 59.91mm
this time it's such a close tolerance fit that I had to hammer the sleeve on, this'll help secure the sleeve on the shaft while I lathe it
centered the shaft
now the long process of trimming the diameter down bit by bit and got close to 60.11mm outer & 60.05mm inner.
had to change the carbide tips few times to cut accurately and stop it vibrating.
test fit in the LSD and it's real snug with zero play
cleaned as much of the old goo off
and repacked with grey Comma lithium moly CV grease
shafts installed
and the result?
went to a high speed right turn on the country road where I usually hear it wobble about and this time it's quiet there's only the very slightest wobble per rotation but I believe that's the outer CV which has abit of play.
so that's fixed now
don't have any steel pipes that's 25-27mm dia, the only one's I found close are the fork stems off bicycles, so had to sacrifice this road bike frame that I'll never use cos it's too small
bored the steel tube to exactly 59.91mm
this time it's such a close tolerance fit that I had to hammer the sleeve on, this'll help secure the sleeve on the shaft while I lathe it
centered the shaft
now the long process of trimming the diameter down bit by bit and got close to 60.11mm outer & 60.05mm inner.
had to change the carbide tips few times to cut accurately and stop it vibrating.
test fit in the LSD and it's real snug with zero play
cleaned as much of the old goo off
and repacked with grey Comma lithium moly CV grease
shafts installed
and the result?
went to a high speed right turn on the country road where I usually hear it wobble about and this time it's quiet
there's only the very slightest wobble per rotation but I believe that's the outer CV which has abit of play.so that's fixed now
