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PollyMobiles Rebuild
- Thread starter pollyp
- Start date
You ask for your money back and buy another
its getting a bit daft in my opinion
OP
OP
pollyp
Club Member
I'll need to assess the small print.
12mth guarantee from invoice is prob invalid now but lifetime warranty still applies and their T&C seem to mention something bout either repair or replace defective goods.
OP
OP
pollyp
Club Member
You ask for your money back and buy another
am I allowed a refund even after 2yrs? although it has also been rebuilt after each yr so yea abit inconvenient.
what other options are out there that won't break the bank?
although my income (tiny funding to help start new business) at the mo is not even minimum wage! so no chance of any upgrade/changes for the next few months
OP
OP
pollyp
Club Member
here's the rebuilt LSD for the 2nd time
but hold on, that wasn't like that before
gArgh someone at gripper needs a good bollucking cos it's obviously been dropped and dinged a section of the 1mm thick bearing cage
further thinking, maybe it could've been dropped badly during parcel transit? wasn't labelled Fragile
I can't straighten it up with pliers but don't think its a major issue and it'll still roll but certainly won't help cos the once straight edges of the cage now bends in slightly at the edge of the roller bearings and could wear it out abnormally?, especially since I push it on track. that'll bug me
before servicing, lets check the preload torque. insert the spare driveshafts, secure one end on a breaker bar and my electronic torque wrench on the other.
slowly increase torque till it slips and the wrench shows the peak torque the preload provides is 55Nm (in future I can lift one wheel and use the wrench to monitor the preload torque monthly against this reference and spot if it fails again)
to undo the cover, I insert the cogs and engage multiple gears to bind/lock/hold the diff before loosening the bolts in a diagonal progressive manner to prevent warping the parts
the new preload ring
the previous rebuilt ring on page 51 had a heavily copper coated appearance, while this new one looks abit darker so maybe a new batch?
old preload ring was 2.6mm thick with a conical offset of 1.2mm
this new one is a slightly thicker 2.66mm and a conical offset of 1.04mm
now lets measure the plates and see whats been replaced or swapped (before -> after rebuild)
Outer Plate 1 (1.89 - 1.90) same
Inner Plate 1 (1.74 - 1.73) same
Outer Plate 2 (1.10 - 1.54) swapped outer plate 4 to outer plate 2
Inner Plate 2 (1.54 - 1.53) same
Outer Plate 3 (0.95 - 0.94) same
Inner Plate 3 (1.53 - 1.53) same
Outer Plate 4 (1.55 - 1.34) new plate
Inner Plate 4 (1.55 - 1.53) same
previously the total plate thickness was approx 11.85mm with a 2.6mm thick preload ring and 1.2mm offset = total 15.65mm free length
tdays rebuilt diff has a total thickness of approx 12.04mm with a 2.66mm thick preload ring and 1.04mm offset = 15.74mm free length
given the distance between the planet driver surface and the LSD cover remains the same, the new preload ring seems to be squeezed tighter.
planet driver
before reassembly, always good practice to tap & clean all threads.
gripper technician clearly hasn't, even though the bolts been 'blue' thread locked upon arrival, cos here you can see the remains of the old 'red' thread lock on the thread tapper
(yes r-reg I sense you'll be commenting bout the Matrix-like 'red/blue pill' theme)
this is why I tend to disassemble and reassemble stuff I've received/purchased, even if it's new, cos in most cases it's never built/assembled carefully to my level of quality attention to detail.
prob a mild form of mechanical ocd/perfectionism? but tis just piece of mind to know that I've triple checked the things been built correctly so it'll function efficiently and reliably (learned since old days of weekly overhauling my bicycles). if ya want stuff done proper, you do it yourself eh
now a long video of reassembling the LSD
rechecked the preload and it remains 55Nm.
but hold on, that wasn't like that before
gArgh someone at gripper needs a good bollucking cos it's obviously been dropped and dinged a section of the 1mm thick bearing cage
further thinking, maybe it could've been dropped badly during parcel transit? wasn't labelled Fragile
I can't straighten it up with pliers but don't think its a major issue and it'll still roll but certainly won't help cos the once straight edges of the cage now bends in slightly at the edge of the roller bearings and could wear it out abnormally?, especially since I push it on track. that'll bug me
before servicing, lets check the preload torque. insert the spare driveshafts, secure one end on a breaker bar and my electronic torque wrench on the other.
slowly increase torque till it slips and the wrench shows the peak torque the preload provides is 55Nm (in future I can lift one wheel and use the wrench to monitor the preload torque monthly against this reference and spot if it fails again)
to undo the cover, I insert the cogs and engage multiple gears to bind/lock/hold the diff before loosening the bolts in a diagonal progressive manner to prevent warping the parts
the new preload ring
the previous rebuilt ring on page 51 had a heavily copper coated appearance, while this new one looks abit darker so maybe a new batch?
old preload ring was 2.6mm thick with a conical offset of 1.2mm
this new one is a slightly thicker 2.66mm and a conical offset of 1.04mm
now lets measure the plates and see whats been replaced or swapped (before -> after rebuild)
Outer Plate 1 (1.89 - 1.90) same
Inner Plate 1 (1.74 - 1.73) same
Outer Plate 2 (1.10 - 1.54) swapped outer plate 4 to outer plate 2
Inner Plate 2 (1.54 - 1.53) same
Outer Plate 3 (0.95 - 0.94) same
Inner Plate 3 (1.53 - 1.53) same
Outer Plate 4 (1.55 - 1.34) new plate
Inner Plate 4 (1.55 - 1.53) same
previously the total plate thickness was approx 11.85mm with a 2.6mm thick preload ring and 1.2mm offset = total 15.65mm free length
tdays rebuilt diff has a total thickness of approx 12.04mm with a 2.66mm thick preload ring and 1.04mm offset = 15.74mm free length
given the distance between the planet driver surface and the LSD cover remains the same, the new preload ring seems to be squeezed tighter.
planet driver
before reassembly, always good practice to tap & clean all threads.
gripper technician clearly hasn't, even though the bolts been 'blue' thread locked upon arrival, cos here you can see the remains of the old 'red' thread lock on the thread tapper
(yes r-reg I sense you'll be commenting bout the Matrix-like 'red/blue pill' theme
)
this is why I tend to disassemble and reassemble stuff I've received/purchased, even if it's new, cos in most cases it's never built/assembled carefully to my level of quality attention to detail.
prob a mild form of mechanical ocd/perfectionism? but tis just piece of mind to know that I've triple checked the things been built correctly so it'll function efficiently and reliably (learned since old days of weekly overhauling my bicycles). if ya want stuff done proper, you do it yourself eh
now a long video of reassembling the LSD
rechecked the preload and it remains 55Nm.
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It would save you £44 quid Paul & you'd know it would be right
OP
OP
pollyp
Club Member
I doubt they supply bearings for the micra diff.
johns reply was
few pointers.
- tis abit inconvenient to pull out the bearings to prevent damaging the bearing each time I need the lsd rebuilt
- I dont have a puller. but even if I do or get someone to do it, it'll prob damage the bearing anyway!
- so really, each time i get the diff sent off to be rebuilt, if it gets dinged it'll need a new bearing? = more time & money.
just spun the bearing on the gearbox casing and it runs fine n smooth so the dinged cage isn't causing an issue yet. I'll just try straighten her abit n get on with it. can't be bothered wasting unnecessary time n money letting a shop replace the bearing when it seems to work as it should.
OP
OP
pollyp
Club Member
the rubber boot on the selector rod is abit torn which isn't good for keeping muck out so I'm gonna have to swap over the one on the spare gearbox
split pins out and removed spare gearbox selector rod
I think someone on the forum or on ciscos was asking bout this selector rod oil seal so here's some pics
ah this thread:
http://micra.org.uk/threads/gear-selector-shaft-oil-seal.23245/
swapped the boots, reinstalled the rod and wtf the boots too big for the lip? did i fit it the wrong way?
rod removed again, and huh, oh ffs the spare gearbox selector rubber boot has a bigger hole than this gearbox :/
here's the bigger end on the spare gearbox, which I later found was removable
the current gearbox has a smaller but metal lipped seal
without damaging it with a screwdriver, I hold the ends with needle pliers and just pry it off and off it comes
both fit the same hole so can be swapped
now lets try to straighten the diff bearing cage. don't have such a tool for the task so lets make one
abit of refinement led to this
slip it in the gap and bend it up progressively along the lip like a tin opener
this is as best as I'll get, better than nothing suppose
the slot edges in the cage still slightly curved but it'll be fine. tisn't critical and still spins freely with no issues so meh
all cleaned n assembled
next is prep the bay, steam wash all the oil stains off, repaint crossmember and fit the gearbox
split pins out and removed spare gearbox selector rod
I think someone on the forum or on ciscos was asking bout this selector rod oil seal so here's some pics
ah this thread:
http://micra.org.uk/threads/gear-selector-shaft-oil-seal.23245/
swapped the boots, reinstalled the rod and wtf the boots too big for the lip? did i fit it the wrong way?
rod removed again, and huh, oh ffs the spare gearbox selector rubber boot has a bigger hole than this gearbox :/
here's the bigger end on the spare gearbox, which I later found was removable
the current gearbox has a smaller but metal lipped seal
without damaging it with a screwdriver, I hold the ends with needle pliers and just pry it off and off it comes
both fit the same hole so can be swapped
now lets try to straighten the diff bearing cage. don't have such a tool for the task so lets make one
abit of refinement led to this
slip it in the gap and bend it up progressively along the lip like a tin opener
this is as best as I'll get, better than nothing suppose
the slot edges in the cage still slightly curved but it'll be fine. tisn't critical and still spins freely with no issues so meh
all cleaned n assembled
next is prep the bay, steam wash all the oil stains off, repaint crossmember and fit the gearbox
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OP
OP
pollyp
Club Member
that's a point.
if the new/replacement boot is exactly the same and has the same hole size, then yeah you could just punch out the dual split pins that hold the external gear linkage arm bracket bit to the selector rod, slide the bracket off, replace boot, refit the arm bracket. so you don't have to take the whole gearbox apart.
but if the boot has a different size hole like what I just discovered last night, then you have to disassemble the gearbox, punch out the split pins holding the rod to the casted selector finger, slide the whole selector rod out, swap over the selector rod oil seal, replace the boot and reassemble.
OP
OP
pollyp
Club Member
how much was the boot and from who?
Stani1029
Club Member
I meant the boot thats currently on the gearbox, its a new oil seal ive ordered so i hope i have the correct boot to match whichever seal i get
OP
OP
pollyp
Club Member
I meant the boot thats currently on the gearbox, its a new oil seal ive ordered so i hope i have the correct boot to match whichever seal i get
ah its an oil seal u ordered. when u receive the new seal, test fit it against the boot. if wrong send it back for another type.
just looking through nissan4u and seems that from Nov 94 they changed the oil seal & boot from the original larger lipped, larger holed, all rubber oil seal to the smaller holed, metal covered oil seal
OP
OP
pollyp
Club Member
freezing tday
drive shafts on
the brake discs are in a sorry state rusting over the snowy/wet month
few mins of wire brushing the thick rust coating off
back to bare metal. slight bit of tiny rust pitting but few thou miles will wear that smooth again
calipers on
taking a break cos its so cold and slightly murky headache.
then continue with the pads and the rest of the bay
drive shafts on
the brake discs are in a sorry state rusting over the snowy/wet month
few mins of wire brushing the thick rust coating off
back to bare metal. slight bit of tiny rust pitting but few thou miles will wear that smooth again
calipers on
taking a break cos its so cold and slightly murky headache.
then continue with the pads and the rest of the bay
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OP
OP
pollyp
Club Member
pads sanded clean n flat n fitted
the oil galleries will be bone dry so lets prelube it by injecting oil via the turbo oil feed line
the down pipe metal gasket starting to crack, tis minor but will need replacing soon
with the wheels on I can check the LSD static preload behavior.
one wheel is held static on the floor while the other is raised and my torque wrench measures the torque in both directions.
LH (clutch & ramp) side measures
50Nm deceleration & 60Nm acceleration
RH (floating ashtray) side measures
50Nm deceleration & 80Nm acceleration
The planet driver ramp relies on the torque difference between the LSD body and the pinion gears to generate additional clamping force against the clutch plates. more torque difference = more clamping force
Also once the plates begin to slip, it goes from a high static friction to a lower dynamic friction so the torque value drops.
The LH of the diff has a lower Acceleration static preload torque than the RH cos the LH side-gear is engaged to the clutch-pack, which means it moves/slips the clutch plates & reaches peak torque earlier before the pinion ramp gets to generate extra clamping force.
It also moves against a floating RH side gear & ashtray driver (zero deg ramp), which means it doesn't generate as much 'ramp' force as the other side.
Now the RH of the diff in comparison is just floating and independent to the clutch pack, it mainly just acts on the planet ramp.
When I turn the RH wheel, the LH side gear & clutch pack is initially held static by the preload ring while the RH side gear is free to turn and push the pinion pin against the ramp angle of the planet driver.
This ramp action increases the clamping force on top of the preload, which further increases the static friction of the plates.
When the RH torque exceeds what the static friction of the plates can hold (from the preload & addition clamp force from the ramps), the plates begin to slip and reach peak torque.
the oil galleries will be bone dry so lets prelube it by injecting oil via the turbo oil feed line
the down pipe metal gasket starting to crack, tis minor but will need replacing soon
with the wheels on I can check the LSD static preload behavior.
one wheel is held static on the floor while the other is raised and my torque wrench measures the torque in both directions.
LH (clutch & ramp) side measures
50Nm deceleration & 60Nm acceleration
RH (floating ashtray) side measures
50Nm deceleration & 80Nm acceleration
The planet driver ramp relies on the torque difference between the LSD body and the pinion gears to generate additional clamping force against the clutch plates. more torque difference = more clamping force
Also once the plates begin to slip, it goes from a high static friction to a lower dynamic friction so the torque value drops.
The LH of the diff has a lower Acceleration static preload torque than the RH cos the LH side-gear is engaged to the clutch-pack, which means it moves/slips the clutch plates & reaches peak torque earlier before the pinion ramp gets to generate extra clamping force.
It also moves against a floating RH side gear & ashtray driver (zero deg ramp), which means it doesn't generate as much 'ramp' force as the other side.
Now the RH of the diff in comparison is just floating and independent to the clutch pack, it mainly just acts on the planet ramp.
When I turn the RH wheel, the LH side gear & clutch pack is initially held static by the preload ring while the RH side gear is free to turn and push the pinion pin against the ramp angle of the planet driver.
This ramp action increases the clamping force on top of the preload, which further increases the static friction of the plates.
When the RH torque exceeds what the static friction of the plates can hold (from the preload & addition clamp force from the ramps), the plates begin to slip and reach peak torque.
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OP
OP
pollyp
Club Member
oh ffs bollucks it's still friggin broke
hard to start, still semi-misfiring, very rich mixture, very poor idling and smoking but coolant doesn't blow so HG fine.
once again unplugging the spark and injectors would lower the rpm except for cyl3.
drive round the block, big ploom of oily mist when leaving the t-junction, light acceleration and cruising, poor turbo response, wirebrushed front discs obviously wasn't working well and felt like stone, but the lsd preload certainly came back judging by the very heavy steering.
not a good day at all
compression test says:
11.6 / 11.7 / 3.5! / 11.6bar dry
12.4 / 12.2 / 4.3 / 12.0bar wet
+0.8 / +0.5 / +0.8 / +0.4 difference
since the valves are lapped and sealing and the HG not blowing and piston tops intact, I'm guessing broken ring land frank?
so situation is
just need to obtain a piston ring grinder to set the end gaps (can only source on US ebay £58)
but also I need to know if I should:
with this much issue, I can't say for sure if I'll be ready for PPC
hard to start, still semi-misfiring, very rich mixture, very poor idling and smoking but coolant doesn't blow so HG fine.
once again unplugging the spark and injectors would lower the rpm except for cyl3.
drive round the block, big ploom of oily mist when leaving the t-junction, light acceleration and cruising, poor turbo response, wirebrushed front discs obviously wasn't working well and felt like stone, but the lsd preload certainly came back judging by the very heavy steering.
not a good day at all
compression test says:
11.6 / 11.7 / 3.5! / 11.6bar dry
12.4 / 12.2 / 4.3 / 12.0bar wet
+0.8 / +0.5 / +0.8 / +0.4 difference
since the valves are lapped and sealing and the HG not blowing and piston tops intact, I'm guessing broken ring land frank?
so situation is
- car's still broken and gonna be off road for some time,
- so gonna need to SORN and cancel insurance to reduce running cost,
- this stock engine is not worth fixing anymore,
- already have another broken engine in garage taking space,
- not worth time & non-existant money buying another stock engine to clutter the garage,
just need to obtain a piston ring grinder to set the end gaps (can only source on US ebay £58)
but also I need to know if I should:
- pre-stress the open block with a torque plate before measuring,
- if you position the gaps pointing at the same orientation on the bore or orientated as they would on the piston
with this much issue, I can't say for sure if I'll be ready for PPC
OP
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pollyp
Club Member
aye, sounds like a ring problem eh paul
ah thats a bumma indeed.
I've got a spare engine in garage for bits n bobs, twas the old stock engine that came with the turbo kit I won off ebay, except it now has the incorrectly over-bored block that was originally from the forged engine I brought off noddie (does that make sense?)
so basically on that engine everything except for the block is fine as spares and can technically swap over the cyl3 pistons but it doesn't guarantee it'll work or if the bores are ok and with the amount of effort required on my setup to swap the pistons, I may as well focus my limited resources towards the forged engine now.
have been waiting for a time when this stock engine finally dies before considering the forged engine and this seems to be the sign
I just took her out one last time in the country roads at night (so I don't gas everyone in daylight with smoke) to bed the front discs in. she still develops 10psi but at a higher threshold due to the lack of energy from the misfire and after afew hard caning, i think the smoking has reduced alot but still sounds like a subaru and really struggles to idle on 3cyl.
oh and during slow speed turning, I can feel and hear the LSD clicking. so that's working, for now.
Enuo
Glorified Electrician
It's not a legal requirement, but I knew a guy with an interceptor he was rebuilding. Declared sorn, no insurance, the garage next door caught fire and his car was ruined. He had no insurance and was not covered by his contents cover for some reason. If you love it, insure it.
OP
OP
pollyp
Club Member
rang sky bout if I need insurance during SORN, nope.
ok how much to cancel?
I paid £572 to renew on 19th mar, so used £10 worth upto now.
says if I cancel, I'd only get £368 back after all the admin/cancel fees etc
and once she's back on road I'd then need to get a new quote to resume cover.
bugga that, just gonna leave it running onwards.
ok how much to cancel?
I paid £572 to renew on 19th mar, so used £10 worth upto now.
says if I cancel, I'd only get £368 back after all the admin/cancel fees etc
and once she's back on road I'd then need to get a new quote to resume cover.
bugga that, just gonna leave it running onwards.
OP
OP
pollyp
Club Member
was gonna order a piston ring grinder from US ebay but with the UK customs, import tax etc, could cost more.
so thinking of getting this one from UK ebay for £68
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Motorcycl...54?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item43b71aace2
unless someone has a ring grinder I can borrow?
or shall I get a shop to gap it for me for that much cos I'll prob only use a ring grinder once?
don't trust my local machinist teesside motor factors tbh. stuff either wasn't machined to exact spec or some stuff weren't done at all.
and with such an important 'last chance' engine, I personally prefer to suck up the investment cost and do it properly myself
so thinking of getting this one from UK ebay for £68
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Motorcycl...54?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item43b71aace2
unless someone has a ring grinder I can borrow?
or shall I get a shop to gap it for me for that much cos I'll prob only use a ring grinder once?
don't trust my local machinist teesside motor factors tbh. stuff either wasn't machined to exact spec or some stuff weren't done at all.
and with such an important 'last chance' engine, I personally prefer to suck up the investment cost and do it properly myself
OP
OP
pollyp
Club Member
you should make one paul
could make this
http://www.teglerizer.com/triumphstuff/75w_newrings.htm
got some diamond dremel discs. just needs a pair of mini bearings and some scrap pieces
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OP
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pollyp
Club Member
thx seb, lets wish I get it right this final time
OP
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pollyp
Club Member
finally got some interest from huggy444 in the 13" nissan alloy wheels i had on sale for um 3yrs
time to grab em off the dusty shelf
hair nets did their job keeping em pristine
they were stored fully deflated so took long few mins of back breaking hand pumping to get em each up to 2.2bars :/
found the old set of nuts
and taped em in the wheels
cover in cardboard & bin bag next
time to grab em off the dusty shelf
hair nets did their job keeping em pristine
they were stored fully deflated so took long few mins of back breaking hand pumping to get em each up to 2.2bars :/
found the old set of nuts
and taped em in the wheels
cover in cardboard & bin bag next
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pollyp
Club Member
look mint,looked after em well !
they did cost me £175 to refurb plus the fresh yokos so obviously had to treasure them.
got himself a bargain for such luvely wheel
Unlucky with that engine, forged one should be good though, means youre finally gonna get on it! As always from the read up the rest of the car looks mint too, nice work polly!
Also can i ask a question as frank said you may know... do the pre-coilpack facelifts (1999 in this case) have an electronic or mechanical speedo? I'm meant to be getting a gearbox from one and hope it will fit my 95 model...
Also can i ask a question as frank said you may know... do the pre-coilpack facelifts (1999 in this case) have an electronic or mechanical speedo? I'm meant to be getting a gearbox from one and hope it will fit my 95 model...
Mines a 1999 precoilpack facelift bud & its an electronic speedo
P.S Paul i hope the forge build goes alright first time for you
bugger.Mines a 1999 precoilpack facelift bud & its an electronic speedo
P.S Paul i hope the forge build goes alright first time for you
OP
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pollyp
Club Member
cheers joe. though I feel it's gonna be a slow progress due to work.
gotta obtain a finer set of feel gauges, then make a dremel ring grinder, clear the spare bedroom to work on the forged engine and the long process of fine tuning the rings, rebuild the engine, rip the old engine out, swap bits, fix bits, reinstall engine n bits, yada yada yada
even though PPC is awhile, with priority on work than car, i'm not certain it'll be ready & bedded in let alone setup for track :/
on nissan4u it seems the k11 switched over to electronic speedo round Feb 98
OP
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pollyp
Club Member
the electronic speedo body and the bore is slightly smaller than the mechanical.
if both elec/mech speedo 1.3L gearboxes have similar bits inside (which mine did when I won the turbo kit), then u can convert an electronic speedo box into a mechanical speedo box by:
if both elec/mech speedo 1.3L gearboxes have similar bits inside (which mine did when I won the turbo kit), then u can convert an electronic speedo box into a mechanical speedo box by:
- just swapping the bellhousing or
- get the hole enlarged by machinist to fit the mechanical speedo.
