Well im driving a turbo micra now...

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kristian

One Way Mule
I sold the primera eGT as some of you may know as I intend on picking up a 200sx S14a in about 6months and finishing off the 2.0 project asap!.. and help fund the purchase of my new house..

Ive been reduced to a 1.3Lx

This is Mr Grassies old car Turbo CG13DET micra.

Ive made several modifications to the car already to make safe some of the aspects of the turbo set-up..

All I can say Is WOW about the performance of the car.. Much faster than my Primera eGT

Its currently running just 9psi which is putting out 120bhp at the Wheels!

My intentions for the car are to Replace the full the exhaust system on the car From the turbo Back, INC elbow

Uprate the brakes
Move battery to boot
etc..

Hopefully im going to get another 10/15bhp from some modifications to the intercooler piping and the exhaust...

Im in two minds completly as to what to do with the bodywork..

Sleeper or Jap style..

either way its gonna stay the same at the mo coz im skint!

.. in conclusion

GET Boosting your CG13!!.. This car proves that with just a 2mm HG and/or spacer plate HG combination that the standard block can take the best part of a Bar of boost.. giving anything between 120/140 at the wheels..

Ill get a video up asap.. The purging of the BOV sounds brilliant!
 
Yeah this car is fast. Went out in it when Kristian was up to collect the black K11 from Stephen.

Good luck with it.
 
such an amazing wee car n im so glad i had the joy of owning it .... if u are gonna sell it again later i may need to buy it bk wen i can afford it again :D :D i dont miss her n im glad u are having ur fun :D

wat kristian says is true, jus a 2mm spacer n all is well with her :D :D :D :D

pepper
 
so where can i get a 2mm spacer?

i have everything else, including a choice of T25 and T2 turbo's......
 
such horrid way to do the conversion, but if you insist I expect I can get you one. I can also supply pisons that dont need shorter controds if your interested (and can be used with stock conrods) to lower the compression ratio properly.

Ed
 
Raceworx said:
wasnt it running on just an S-AFC? for aditional fueling?
Click to expand...

This is true.. its been mapped at AVA and is running very well at the minute developing quite amazing power..

Ive got some issues with the actual set-up of the turbo conversion and I am going to relocate lots of things..

Now that ive had a chance to look at it, The Exhaust design is terrible from the turbo back its needs redesigning and fabricating.. The filter location im going to change as well..

After the changes im going to get it further mapped at my local ( very respected ) RR/tuning house.. and might look into different managment.. depending on what further advice I receive from them..

...with 120 at the wheels now on whats It looks VERY promising for further 'cheap' gains in HP, concidering the effectiveness of such a seemingly poor set-up..

... but for people like Ed pointing fingers at 'questionable' aspects of the conversion.. Nobody can deny its Potency in such a form,
 
antony_aiken said:
so where can i get a 2mm spacer?

i have everything else, including a choice of T25 and T2 turbo's......
Click to expand...

could possible get 1 made in work i work in a machine shop n would be alot cheaper coz i jus get it as a homer n then its free minus wat i owe the machine man for doing it -lol... ill ask bout

and yeah this is poor setup but it does work so y not do it ?

stephen
 
Quite simple, its a horrendous bodge, and there is no real proof of it working other than this car which, lets be honest doesnt have the best reliability record. It also upsets the cam timing, means the head bolts wont sit in the block as far as they should do and upsets the design of the combustion chamber.

Where is the proof of the claimed power by the way?


Edit!!!: Just re-read my post it looks like im being a bit rude/blunt. That is not my intention please don't take it as such. :)
 
Ed, I believe Stephen has the read out proving the power. Unsure if he gave it to Kristian or not.

I think this car alone is "real proof" that it does work. And as for reliability issues it seems to have been resonably reliable so far.

Ok it isn't done the way you would do it Ed, but it still works and is still fast.
 
Could we have some pics of the micra and good engine ones please, sounds like a fun car to drive.
Paul

Enjoy it
 
im with ed on this one *shocking*

from what i have heard so far it doesnt sound to great and a bit of a bodge

the last time it was r and r wasnt it running incredibly lean/rich and thats why the guy who bought it took it off the road?

hope you proove me wrong and get decent reliability and power
 
so what if it is a bodge still works doesnt it, as long as its reliable and safe i dnt see whats wrong with it.

if he wants a bodged micra turbo fair enough. I havent seen any pics so im not commenting what i think of it yet.
 
"Proving" something is always met with controversy unless it's done to some form of standard or procedure.......it's why people like me are paid lots of money to approve things for manufacture LOL.

On a one off level, where no "real" standards apply it's left somewhat down to a persons preference and budget if done solo. This has been clearly done on a shoestring budget. I mean no disrespect when I say it, but it's true none the less. Anyone here will be able to pick fault with it looking at the photos......myself more so since I'm an engineer. Yes it works to a point, but ultimately it can be done in a much much superior way.

Just understand that Ed is speaking not only on a personal level but also on a professional level.........afterall he does run Fusion Motorsports and if he delivered a product of that quality to his customers it wouldn't exactly be acceptable would it?
 
agree'd with dave. Ed is giving a professional opinion, and must provide a good solid solution for his customers.

My slant on this debate would be, if i were to do it, for myself on my car, would i spend £2000 on custom pistons and rods? or would i go for cheap giggles on a £200 head gasket?

i could probably buy a few spare engines, and have plently of change.. just incase

but my cars probably worth £500, so to me it'd be a no - brainer.

however i was to build a high powered reliable car for a customer, i know what i would be telling them, unless asked specifically otherwise.
 
Bazraf said:
There's been turbo micras that have been done properly with the correct fueling, cooling and internal set up that have just pushed out a torquey 100bhp.
Click to expand...

I haven't seen any with power output this low!

especially not with uprated internals

you see that with fairly run of the mill n/a tuning on the cg13
 
my thread i started when i got the car... http://www.micra.org.uk/showthread.php?t=11783

haha cant believe some peoples comments to this, right i was the previous owner and why i took it off the road was so i didn kill myself with it or worse crash, n live to have a run in with the law... i insured it as standard (NO ONE LECTURE ME ON THAT POINT) it was on road for a week n was amazing.... the printout is now with kristian though i will host my pic of it and show the proof, im sure he wont mind .... anyway the car scored 118.something, due to be covered u cant see, so i say it was a 9-lol that was at the wheels from AVA in glasgow. i also work in an engineering firm and i also know what the main reliablity issues are... heat n lots of it !!!!

enough said

jus a few changes to pipework for a few 100 maybe n this will be reliable n prove spacers do work !!!!

thanks :D

PRINT OUT... thin libne was wen i got n black line is as it is now on this map

23092006505.jpg
 
sorry k11ss but from what read when you first posted up that you got it, you said the garage told you it might burst into flames any minute. thats all im basing it on, no disrespect intended
 
Does it specify weather that power is at wheels or fly, if it doesnt then they are probably estimated at fly (the norm) then the power to me sounds ok for the mods.

Its kind of irrelevent how well the head spacer block works or not. Its still a horrendous engine modification.
 
The Print out above shows 118bhp AT THE WHEELS, this is said specifically on this print out..

Since buying the car ive made some minor alterations to the exhaust and intake in order to make safe some blinding safty issues..

After a quick Power Run today the car is developing 121bhp at the wheels..

Ive received some more advice regarding the set-up and wil be returning again after the exhaust is altered, in a few weeks for some mapping,

Funds and time are not permitting this at the minute...

To all those who are making statments again off HEARSAY, you are entitled to your opinions but how many of you have actually seen the set-up in the flesh?



Ed said:
Its kind of irrelevent how well the head spacer block works or not. Its still a horrendous engine modification.
Click to expand...

What kind of stupid statment is this!?!?

We all know that lowering the compression is critical of a decent turbo application. So wouldn't it REALLY be quite important as to how well it works on a 1.3..

... Concidering most of us aren't going to spend 1000's on a 200bhp micra.. as its only a micra at the end of the day.. This is possibly the best news we could hear..

Please note at this point, Please note im not slagging off anyone whos has spent 1000's on their micra(s) as im one of them...

But for the average Joe who wants a decent upgrade and an alternative to the Janspeed 4,2,1, Decat Etc, Etc, Etc, Etc....

Like PETE said earlier, If there is an application available for less than 800, wouldn't there be loads of us driving round in Boosted Micras...

Im not surprised that ED ( With all respect ) who is a supplier of:

Supplier of Omex, Toyo, Piper, Garrett, FSE, Greddy, Wizard of Nos and more!

Is leaning against such information..

[
...

For your information you have been told that a car is developing 120 at the wheels on a cheap set-up.. The engine fire was attributed to somthing that was rectified. This is NOT a bodge Job, I wouldn't have purchased the car if it was.. The car is running supurbly at this moment in time and it FLYS
... Its to your loss to disregard such information...
 
Thread re-opened!

I have removed ALL off topic posts related to the discussion of THIS Micra Turbo.

It's obviously of some interest to a lot you, considering the way the turbo conversion has been put together and the eventfull past history of the car, however lets keep this thread ON topic.

I would recommend that the people keep there replies constructive and more importantly based on fact rather then fiction.

Kev
 
wow what a thread lol, anyway!



Good results, I can totally appreciate how fast this car will be ;) good man

On the 2mm HG topic, It is a viable “budget” option as has been proved here and I’m sure you are not the first so I’m pretty sure it will work. The only question is how long, keep it well maintained and under a watchful eye and I’m sure it will be fine if not pushed too far.

With regards to it being a "bodge", I think that with the nature of engines being finely tuned in the first place i.e. parts machined to fractions of an inch etc, then putting a 2mm wedge in the combustion chamber will cause aggravation internally, parts will be stressed that wouldn’t normally i.e. cam chain, valve clearances etc, (please correct me if I’m wrong) but it will IMO stretch the engine.

So, it’s not an ideal solution but it is a good compromise between:
1) cost,
2) reliability.
 
again, so how much in difference between a 2mm head gasket spacer and lets say Ed's dished pistons?

in cost. that way i can to weight up the advantages and disadvantages of doing it this way.

and 120bhp was what i was hoping for anyway.. no more.... yet..lol
 
Davey C said:
wow what a thread lol,
Click to expand...

.........................................................................

This is 120 at the wheels remember.. making it around 150 at the flywheel!!

more than enough for most of us!..

The point im trying to make with this thread, is that you CAN spend 1000's to get pistons and rods etc etc.. in order to make the conversion.

.... and you will probably make more power reliably.. but there is an option for Serious power for much much less...

If I was going to spend 1000's on a micra engine alone it would have to generate much more power than the Few 200bhp micras have done.. i.e 350 from a pulsar block...

imo.. id rather not get 200bhp from a 1.3 with VERY expensive internals because IF it goes pop.. your SERIOUSLY out of pocket..
...however a normal 1.3 block will only set you back 100quid?

due to the nature of everything turbo micra related being custom and hence VERY expensive.. its the only real choice for me..

..
 
i have to be with kristian on this. I built my march and i still havent finished it as in stage2 remap. everyone said i bodged it up, mines still running and running strong even though its done over 100k!

less critism more support people!! i would love to drive a turbo micra, want to drive a supercharged march kristian?
 
kristian, as I said already, do not take this personally. but I just can't see how its possible to be making 120 atw.

You have a 1275cc engine it produces 75bhp standard @ 1 bar of atmospheric pressure. You increase the effective atmospheric pressure by 0.6 bar. Giving an effective pressure of 1.6 bar absolute. Then knowing the stock power being 75 times this by 1.6 and you get exactly 120. Which is what my very very rough theoretical calculation made.

Who decided on the 2mm plate? Sandwiched between an extra head gasket as well that's at least 3mm I am amazed the cam chain even went on (unless the spacer thickness we are being told is not accurate). Or does whoever did this mean 2mm inc the head gasket? In any case did anyone actually calculate exactly how much this would drop the compression ratio, or was it guessed?
I work out that by slapping on basically 3mm more space drops the compression ratio to 7.4:1. This is really to low for a low boosted application. I would imagine that off boost this thing is really quite slow.

Its still not cheap as you make out either. You still need to find the turbo, intercooling, ecu etc... + the labour and parts to make it all work. It just makes no sense to short cut in the most important area. In fact since its possible just to change the pistons alone to turbo low comp (with small over bore) which will give you the added bonus of 1293cc. Find a decent engine shop, head gasket pistons and a re bore would see you just under a K with an engine that would take 200bhp. (rods being the weak point, but they are more likely to break due to high RPM than boost, and we know stock rods can take pretty high RPMS on the CG13)

Again I'm going to repeat this as you get very defensive. Its not a personal criticism against you. If anything I hope you'll be the one to finally sort out all the problems with this that seem to exist.
 
Not wanting to seem like im argueing, as i am not, however as a flip side to this agruement / discussion, what could be said, is, if its good enough for kappatsu and aspect, who lets be fair, tune more k11s for high power than we probably see

then perhaps its good enough for most people on the msc?

Also GMC who produce some very nice supercharged saxo's use a stackable citroen hg to good effect

in regard to it not working / dodgy figures, i have a dyno graph for joannes car with over 150bhp at the hubs, and a thats on a very very safe map.

so i don't really doubt the power output either.[

HG's are not really the way to go, but provide a simple (also read cheap) solution to lower compression.

me personally, i couldn't justify spending 600 for pistons alone, when i my car isn't worth that

however if i had a resonable budget i'd go for pistons
 
Fair point Pete. I had forgot that GMC do that.
The truth of the matter really is (regardless as to weather its nice or not) that if there is a market for such items and for those who do such a thing finds it works then who am I to say other wise. Perhaps if people do decide to go this route then I should make a plate (shudder) haha.

I also don't really think that Jo's car is a fair comparison :)
 
Ed said:
Perhaps if people do decide to go this route then I should make a plate (shudder) haha.
Click to expand...

Why not? i know for a fact people would buy it.

but could you live with giving your customers a "less than best" solution? i suppose it depends on the person.

also i agree, jo's car is not a fair comparison, but as i said, i was just adding a flip side
 
I dont believe its in ED's charicter to give a 'less than best' solution,

...unless your replacing Pistons and using Emanage its surely a bodge job...

you have slagged the car off without even seeing the set-up in person or seeing the car performing. This not only immature, It looks badly on the MSC.

Im not taking your comments personally ED.. I just feel you have VERY unconstructive comments to make, and this time my friend you are mistaken..


Pete - My point entirely.. I couldn't warrent spending a over grand on just the block on a k11, not to name the 1000's extra in managment and mapping... to go from 150bhp at the fly to 200bhp...

THIS car has a PROVEN 120 at the wheels... FACT!, This is undisputable...

.. Given the poor design of the exhaust, as ive said earlier.. this is only going to go up...

Ive driven plenty of fast cars and know how powerful this car feels...

cimg1748rv4.jpg


Excuse the poor quality of the images.

micra_pete said:
car is not a fair comparison, but as i said, i was just adding a flip side
Click to expand...

Joe's car is a completly different machine.. Such is my 2.0 project..
 
what i want to know is like ed is there a 2mm plate with 2 gasgets or is there simply a 2mm custom headgasget??
 
From previous posts I believe this to be two separate head gaskets with a plate in the middle.

Kristian, I'm not slagging of anything, your image clearly shows wheel power - fair enough. Its not however indisputable, power figures never are, I even disputed the fact of the power James T got as being on the optimistic side. On a decent dynodynamics roller.
 
then it must be seriously low compression standard head gasgets are close to a mill on there own :S
 
I calculated it at about 7.4:1 going on the assumption of 2x stock headgaskets and a 2mm plate.
 
Ed said:
Kristian, I'm not slagging of anything,
Click to expand...


Ed said:
Quite simple, its a horrendous bodge,
Click to expand...

This is a blatant slag..


Ed said:
Kristian, I'm not slagging of anything, your image clearly shows wheel power - fair enough. Its not however indisputable, power figures never are,
Click to expand...

This is very true... We all read about Andy_S on some portable Rollers getting somthing like 70 then 210 or somthing on the next run..

For this reason only Ive since been to my local RR/tuning garage.. I wanted to ascertain as to what the actual power output of the car despite the AVA graph, and how the car pulls.

This was after ( as again, Previously mentioned ) some alterations to blinding safty issues and some relocating of things.. to hopefully inprove things a little..

On this Quick power run session I got 120 and 121 respectivly.. These two RR's are a good 200miles apart..

This is why I would concider the power output stated at 120 at the wheels to be undisputable..

...however you seem steadfast in your ignorence in this matter ED.

Ed said:
Its kind of irrelevent how well the head spacer block works or not. Its still a horrendous engine modification.
Click to expand...

What kind of stupid statment is this!?!?

We all know that lowering the compression is critical of a decent turbo application. So wouldn't it REALLY be quite important as to how well it works on a 1.3..

... Concidering most of us aren't going to spend 1000's on a 200bhp micra.. as its only a micra at the end of the day.. This is possibly the best news we could hear..


I believe the fact of the matter is:

It works.. and it works much much better than either I or anyone had thought possible...

Surly this is great news for 95% of micra owners in the club..??

All credit to Mr.Grassie.., He is either very lucky or knows somthign we dont..
 
I can see this topic getting out of hand. Please don't be turning this topic into a "mines bigger than your" issue.

I shall keep this topic open however please all note this is being watched and any signs of MSC rules being broken will have it locked for good.

Thank you for your co-operation.
 
I really wish ED would respond to feedback to his earlier remarks..

...people are going to search for this information and will read this thread...

Wilsonian: where is the "mines bigger than your" issue??
 
I think you'll find he's got better things to do..........

Is someone going to close this or what? It's clearly going no-where.

kristian said:
I really wish ED would respond to feedback to his earlier remarks..

...people are going to search for this information and will read this thread...

Wilsonian: where is the "mines bigger than your" issue??
Click to expand...
 
Well if a Mod cannot explain himself then im sure either himself or some other MOD's will just delete the thread.. -typical-

He has given some seriously disjointed information..

This isn't unusual in this forum but sombody who throws his weight about like he does he should really be accountable to his remarks..

He presents himself as informed and I feel its unfair to people looking for reliable information to be reading this..

Its not my website so im sure this will be deleted.. as are a lot of my b!tchy posts..
 
The whole arguement on this thread is too much. If Ed wanted to reply or had anything worth posting he would of by now.

Kristian - I came in to observe and I can clearly see this topic isn't going any where. Because of this I am now closing this thread.
 
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