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PollyMobiles Rebuild
- Thread starter pollyp
- Start date
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pollyp
Club Member
thought it's time to repair the rusted rear end so removed the bumper
notice how the RH vent has a 1way flap and foam divider whereas the LH doesn't
the RH section prob had water pooling & rotting the bottom out
the LH corner just has a little rust hole at the front
cut out the corner section
abit of CAD planning. was gonna have it welded from the inside so water can't seep into the boot. would also be cool if the bumper had a venting out port but best keep it in the ideas vault
cut & bent the steel piece but gawd it's such a pita to get it fit right so I think tomorrow it'll just be easier to tack weld it from the outside rather than trying to make it fit inside.
notice how the RH vent has a 1way flap and foam divider whereas the LH doesn't
the RH section prob had water pooling & rotting the bottom out
the LH corner just has a little rust hole at the front
cut out the corner section
abit of CAD planning. was gonna have it welded from the inside so water can't seep into the boot. would also be cool if the bumper had a venting out port but best keep it in the ideas vault
cut & bent the steel piece but gawd it's such a pita to get it fit right so I think tomorrow it'll just be easier to tack weld it from the outside rather than trying to make it fit inside.
OP
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pollyp
Club Member
the flimsy flap only covers 1/2 the port and the LH flap was missing. so they always venting debris in & out. the other vent from closing doors is the cabin inlet vent above dash. to allow cabin airflow to vent out, think I'll cut some slots at the back of the spare wheel bay rather than by the splashing of the rear wheels.
OP
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pollyp
Club Member
this morning made a new plate to fit inside the hole. stick welding a corner joint this thin will def be hard but here we go
tack tack tack and ffs it's soo frustrating, the tin foil bodywork simply vapourises away. was fuming
out of frustration I went to machine mart and fook it, brought my first MIG
was debating between the clarke 151 & 160 but they needed 15A plug, so I went for the 135TE kit for £290 that had a 13A plug, CO2 and 0.6 wire
some assembly needed. it's so heavy & bulky compared to the tiny stick inverter
comes with a tiny bit of 0.6mm steel wire
the gas regulator was abit vague. at the suggested 3-4 dial I couldn't hear any gas coming out the trigger.
then I tweaked upto 5 and now it hisses on the trigger.
on first test I ran the suggested setting 1/Max and 5-6 wire speed and it kinda sounded unstable even if I speed up the wire and appeared to under-feed
the shroud was wobbling about and wasn't fully seated cos of this excess rubber, so trimmed it off
turned the voltage hotter to 2/Min and a slower 5 speed, and now it sounds like the proper bacon sound and can see from the hazy new welds at the joint that it appears alot better.
why didn't I get MIG any sooner cos it's so much easier / cleaner than stick with the point & shoot action.
so happy with this purchase and can't wait to resume the repair tomorrow
need to get more wire & gas.
and so easy to forget to turn off the gas too.
tack tack tack and ffs it's soo frustrating, the tin foil bodywork simply vapourises away. was fuming
out of frustration I went to machine mart and fook it, brought my first MIG
was debating between the clarke 151 & 160 but they needed 15A plug, so I went for the 135TE kit for £290 that had a 13A plug, CO2 and 0.6 wire
some assembly needed. it's so heavy & bulky compared to the tiny stick inverter
comes with a tiny bit of 0.6mm steel wire
the gas regulator was abit vague. at the suggested 3-4 dial I couldn't hear any gas coming out the trigger.
then I tweaked upto 5 and now it hisses on the trigger.
on first test I ran the suggested setting 1/Max and 5-6 wire speed and it kinda sounded unstable even if I speed up the wire and appeared to under-feed
the shroud was wobbling about and wasn't fully seated cos of this excess rubber, so trimmed it off
turned the voltage hotter to 2/Min and a slower 5 speed, and now it sounds like the proper bacon sound and can see from the hazy new welds at the joint that it appears alot better.
why didn't I get MIG any sooner cos it's so much easier / cleaner than stick with the point & shoot action.
so happy with this purchase and can't wait to resume the repair tomorrow
need to get more wire & gas.
and so easy to forget to turn off the gas too.
SuperUno
Buy & Sell Member
I have had the 151TE for over ten years now, should run on a 15A plug, but is fine on a normal 13A plug.
Mine has seen a fair bit of use and abuse over the years, but still works well (touch wood). One tip for storage is put WD40 on the roll of welding wire, it helps it flow through the feed cable. I always run the gas a max (6) and generally use CO2 gas as it is cheaper, but for nice welding the Argon/CO2 mix is better.
Mine has seen a fair bit of use and abuse over the years, but still works well (touch wood). One tip for storage is put WD40 on the roll of welding wire, it helps it flow through the feed cable. I always run the gas a max (6) and generally use CO2 gas as it is cheaper, but for nice welding the Argon/CO2 mix is better.
OP
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pollyp
Club Member
I think the 15A is just incase u wanna run maxed out for thick stuff, which in my case is rare cos I'm mostly using this for light body panels.
lubing the cable much like our clutch cables. wouldn't the oiled reel contaminate the weld or make the knurled feeder likely to slip?
how would I tell if gas is too much or little? I've seen that zero gas gives a sponge look and too much gas simply empties the tank quicker. I just crack the valve open till I hear some hissing when I trigger.
dunno if that bright yellow haze around the weld is oxidation?
was tempted on the CO2/argon mix for thin sheet and the double capacity can is £12 vs £9 normal weight.
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pollyp
Club Member
much like my 3D printer plastic spools that I keep in tupperware with their moisture crystals.
No gas gives a crap weld
Have a gander
http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/threads/how-much-gas.46892/
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pollyp
Club Member
aye bulk buying for business is another world but this is just a very small scale hobby tool for now.
just finished welding the rear end and hardly used much of the mini wire spool
OP
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pollyp
Club Member
before welding, I needed to do some refinement tweaking.
trimmed the copper nozzle back so that it's flush with the tip to keep a minimal stick-out distance
I was trying to loosen some screws and shift the reinforced wire feed hose abit closer to the drive wheel but two silly nut ends of the screw fell inside the electronics end..so I had to remove the cover.
one silly service design is that the big wheels cover one of the chassis screws so I had to knock out the lock washer to remove the wheel out the way.
retrieved the nuts. this is whats inside the welder.
the basic welding voltage switches simply governs which of the transformer coils are active therefore the resulting voltage.
so I reclamped the flexible wire feeding hose at a better position to prevent birds-nesting,
tuned the wire clamping force till it just barely slips.
got some 5kg steel wire and 110L CO2/Argon canister at machine mart.
cos the canister is double pressure, I had to wack the cheap regulator upto max to get any gas out
so with power set at the lowest 1/Min and 6 wire speed for good sounding weld, I began tacking more around last nights plate.
it managed alright, heat is slightly more controllable than stick weld but there's still occasions where it blew holes :/
at the very thin rusted wheel arch side it blew a hole and had to tell myself to stop or it'll get worse.
turned welder off and went to make the other LH plate.
tacked the plate in place
began pulse welding it all around the plate and oddly with the 1sec pulse technique I always use from the stick welder, it seems to simply fill the gap with no issues at all
no burn-through or melting it just sticks.
halfway through the job I thought, actually the welding itself sounds very rough & spattery compared to the smooth bacon sound.
checked the gas and Oh darn I forgot to turn on the argon/co2 gas
BUT now after turning on the gas, although it's arcing alot more stable, it tends to once again burn holes :/
ey this is abit counter intuitive. by accidentally not using gas, the MIG actually fills up holes alot better?
to fill in the much bigger holes, I used this block of Alu as a backing plate to support the weld without welding steel to the Alu and with no gas, this worked flawlessly
so now I plugged up all the holes on the RH plate
and the LH plate
all undersealed and ready to fit bumpers tomorrow
trimmed the copper nozzle back so that it's flush with the tip to keep a minimal stick-out distance
I was trying to loosen some screws and shift the reinforced wire feed hose abit closer to the drive wheel but two silly nut ends of the screw fell inside the electronics end..so I had to remove the cover.
one silly service design is that the big wheels cover one of the chassis screws so I had to knock out the lock washer to remove the wheel out the way.
retrieved the nuts. this is whats inside the welder.
the basic welding voltage switches simply governs which of the transformer coils are active therefore the resulting voltage.
so I reclamped the flexible wire feeding hose at a better position to prevent birds-nesting,
tuned the wire clamping force till it just barely slips.
got some 5kg steel wire and 110L CO2/Argon canister at machine mart.
cos the canister is double pressure, I had to wack the cheap regulator upto max to get any gas out
so with power set at the lowest 1/Min and 6 wire speed for good sounding weld, I began tacking more around last nights plate.
it managed alright, heat is slightly more controllable than stick weld but there's still occasions where it blew holes :/
at the very thin rusted wheel arch side it blew a hole and had to tell myself to stop or it'll get worse.
turned welder off and went to make the other LH plate.
tacked the plate in place
began pulse welding it all around the plate and oddly with the 1sec pulse technique I always use from the stick welder, it seems to simply fill the gap with no issues at all
no burn-through or melting it just sticks.
halfway through the job I thought, actually the welding itself sounds very rough & spattery compared to the smooth bacon sound.
checked the gas and Oh darn I forgot to turn on the argon/co2 gas
BUT now after turning on the gas, although it's arcing alot more stable, it tends to once again burn holes :/
ey this is abit counter intuitive. by accidentally not using gas, the MIG actually fills up holes alot better?
to fill in the much bigger holes, I used this block of Alu as a backing plate to support the weld without welding steel to the Alu and with no gas, this worked flawlessly
so now I plugged up all the holes on the RH plate
and the LH plate
all undersealed and ready to fit bumpers tomorrow
OP
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pollyp
Club Member
The gas aids in penetration Paul, so with the gas on you'll not be getting the expected penetration. Pure CO2 has a deeper penetration than an Argon mix but not as clean a finish
Glad you're enjoying your new toy
with metal as cheese string thin as this, there's nothing to penetrate.
guess the no-gas weld is cold fusing it together just enough, like soldering (definately doesn't knock apart).
guessing on contact, the weld is oxidising & exploding/pulsating and the weld cools/hardens & builds up immediately, so it doesn't blow through.
with arg/co2 it seems that even at low 1/Min voltage there's too much heat in the thin body metal till it blows.
dunno if pure co2 worked differently/cooler cos I only tried it on thicker scrap 1mm sheet compared to the very thin body panels.
and also realised, I could now actually replace & realign properly the whole wonky front chassis panel now
OP
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pollyp
Club Member
I've got to do it too ,soon.... especialy the hole under the passagers feet
it hurts to weld bodywork, I hate to weld thin steel like that
yeah the outer shell is like wafer thin, just have to give it very short quick pulses to keep heat right down
OP
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pollyp
Club Member
its a bit of a faff but ain't essential so do it when ur bored and preferably in nice weather or indoors.
OP
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pollyp
Club Member
undersealed the area
drilled new holes for the sunroof drain hose
so this is with the bumper fitted
went for a drive and the blower vents working ok, so air is flow into & out of the cabin fine.
closing the doors & boot, no issues
all is well
will see how she seals when it rains
drilled new holes for the sunroof drain hose
so this is with the bumper fitted
went for a drive and the blower vents working ok, so air is flow into & out of the cabin fine.
closing the doors & boot, no issues
all is well
will see how she seals when it rains
OP
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pollyp
Club Member
yup saves maybe a kg, perhaps another planned obsolescence along with the sunroof draining into a closed sill beam?
if I wanted to, could also form a vent port out the back of the bumper to reduce some aero drag from the exposed lip of the bumper but that's a minor thing.
SuperUno
Buy & Sell Member
Good work, I will do the same a some point soon(ish) every gram counts Our Micra is now over 40kgs lighter than it was from its initial build where most weight comes out.
I too am thinking about removing that section of the rear bumper, reduced aero and weight saving. Plus all this weight saving is from the very extreme of the car roll/turn centre so BIG win
Our Micra is now over 40kgs lighter than it was from its initial build where most weight comes out.I too am thinking about removing that section of the rear bumper, reduced aero and weight saving. Plus all this weight saving is from the very extreme of the car roll/turn centre so BIG win
OP
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pollyp
Club Member
Good work, I will do the same a some point soon(ish) every gram counts
I too am thinking about removing that section of the rear bumper, reduced aero and weight saving. Plus all this weight saving is from the very extreme of the car roll/turn centre so BIG win
what about removing that deep spare wheel well for a flat boot floor? saves some weight and gives some space underneath (diffuser and/or independant suspension subframe?)
SuperUno
Buy & Sell Member
Have thought of that too, however on road rallies and multi venue stage events we carry two spares so need the space to carry a car in the normal space and then one where the rear seats are.
OP
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pollyp
Club Member
ah yeah for rallying in such remote areas it's a totally different requirement/priorities compared to the track circuit
SuperUno
Buy & Sell Member
On road rallies and multi venue events I carry the follow :-
Two spares
Spare throttle & clutch cable
WD40
Tyre weld
Box of spare parts / bulbs / bolts etc.. including a HT lead (longest), spark plug, rotor arm, dizzy cap, wires, fuel pump, chemical metal.
Jump leads
Tow rope
Tank tape
1 Ltr of Water
1 Ltr of Oil
Zip ties
Tool bag
Food / Drink
Torch
Hat
Hi-Viz's
Headsets
Plus other stuff I have forgotten, basically enough to completely fill a large blue Ikea bag.
Heavy, but useful when you need the parts which keep you in the event.
Plus on road rallies you have to run with the rear seats and 3/4 panel trim pieces in place.
Two spares
Spare throttle & clutch cable
WD40
Tyre weld
Box of spare parts / bulbs / bolts etc.. including a HT lead (longest), spark plug, rotor arm, dizzy cap, wires, fuel pump, chemical metal.
Jump leads
Tow rope
Tank tape
1 Ltr of Water
1 Ltr of Oil
Zip ties
Tool bag
Food / Drink
Torch
Hat
Hi-Viz's
Headsets
Plus other stuff I have forgotten, basically enough to completely fill a large blue Ikea bag.
Heavy, but useful when you need the parts which keep you in the event.
Plus on road rallies you have to run with the rear seats and 3/4 panel trim pieces in place.
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pollyp
Club Member
looks like my checklist for when I went on roadtrip to germany. after yrs of trackdays, you get a sense of what essentials to bring, what will likely to fail, what's not essential. save me from carrying literally the kitchen sink
SuperUno
Buy & Sell Member
looks like my checklist for when I went on roadtrip to germany. after yrs of trackdays, you get a sense of what essentials to bring, what will likely to fail, what's not essential. save me from carrying literally the kitchen sink
When going to events where I can service the list is MUCH longer....
Events where stuff is ONLY carried in the rally car :-
- Spare wheels / tyres min. x4 usually x6
- driveshafts
- box of fluids
- radiator and fan
- pop up tent to put stuff in
- jack
- laptop, cameras etc
- wishbones
- steering rack
- box of electrical parts, spare ecu, dizzy, sensors etc...
- drill & tek bolts
-
Events where we service out of my Focus road car
- All the above plus :-
- More wheels / tyres
- Spare, rear link arms, front shock & rear shock, clutch kit, front hubs, rear wheel bearing / hub,
- Another 4 boxes of parts
- Large 3 tonne jack, sill stands
- ground sheet & weights (old front discs)
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pollyp
Club Member
blimey, could rebuild the whole car with that hehe
OP
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pollyp
Club Member
time to sort out the cable management of the stick welder so removed the cover. odd to find that although boths sides have vents, one side is blocked by this cardboard insulator
the other side is open to all the heatsinks
the circuit board side
I cut some tubes at 45deg
MIG them into elbows
welded onto the side of the case
now all the cables can be neatly coiled up
the other side is open to all the heatsinks
the circuit board side
I cut some tubes at 45deg
MIG them into elbows
welded onto the side of the case
now all the cables can be neatly coiled up
I think usually its improving\upgradingYou can't just buy things and leave them alone can you ahaha!
Always have to tinker
haha
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pollyp
Club Member
You can't just buy things and leave them alone can you ahaha!
Always have to tinker
Never! haha you know me
I'm a designer, an engineer, a curious tinkerer, it's who I am and what I was meant for.There's always room for improvement. I wanted to improve it, so I improved it
Exactly the same principle as to we we mod our cars & phones, etc.
We could either follow the rest of the sheep and comply with whatever standardised spec the big manufactures give us,
Or we embrace our own individual values, empower ourselves with the knowledge/power that the big corporates had, and adapt things to meet our own requirements.
h701micra
Deactivated Account
Mimes a different story as a graph
1-4 are linear ish but flat. 4-7 are what you expect. 7-10 is stupid
It's always worth knowing what wire speed you have on tap
Don't forget to take your wire size into account for the amount of metal you're chucking at it
0.8mm is far more stable and predicable to use as it doesn't dance all over the place like 0.6 does
The machine runs in that central finer tuned, controllable area
You can move slower too increasing your weld capability
I've used 0.6 wire once in the last 3 years and it was a forced decision (ran out of 0.8 wire)
1-4 are linear ish but flat. 4-7 are what you expect. 7-10 is stupid
It's always worth knowing what wire speed you have on tap
Don't forget to take your wire size into account for the amount of metal you're chucking at it
0.8mm is far more stable and predicable to use as it doesn't dance all over the place like 0.6 does
The machine runs in that central finer tuned, controllable area
You can move slower too increasing your weld capability
I've used 0.6 wire once in the last 3 years and it was a forced decision (ran out of 0.8 wire)
OP
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pollyp
Club Member
there's afew different recommendations out there about how to tune the wire speed & voltage for given weld:
some suggest setting & freezing the wire speed to feed specific mm/min then tune the voltage till its stable.
others suggest setting the voltage heat then tune the wire speed till it sizzles.
my logic would think that since our controls have very limited selection of voltages, I should set the voltage heat to suit the thickness/penetration, then tune the wire speed till it welds stable, then tune my technique to control heat.
although I tend to think that even at the lowest heat setting, the weld might be too hot for thin steel like bodywork and would often blow through with gas.
the only way I could weld it was to use very short spot weld bursts, keep the gun at very shallow angle to the surface and at times run without gas to make the pool solidify sooner.
I'm sure that technique & skill is equally as important as tuning the correct machine settings, just need more practice & experience getting to know how to handle the machine over each scenario.
h701micra
Deactivated Account
Indeed correct
Welding is a catch 22
You need to set up the machine to weld
But you need to know how to weld to correctly set the machine
Setting the machine up in those 2 methods always leads to tge same result. X thick steel will always need Y amount of amps to melt it and Z amount of filler to fill the gap
Its a mathematical equation
The thing with our machines. Having a non linear feed we can change the wire thickness to keep the wire speed down in the tuneable/predictable area
Spotting per inch is how I weld body panels
Refer to project binky as a video example where he joins the panels with a series of spots
Welding is a catch 22
You need to set up the machine to weld
But you need to know how to weld to correctly set the machine
Setting the machine up in those 2 methods always leads to tge same result. X thick steel will always need Y amount of amps to melt it and Z amount of filler to fill the gap
Its a mathematical equation
The thing with our machines. Having a non linear feed we can change the wire thickness to keep the wire speed down in the tuneable/predictable area
Spotting per inch is how I weld body panels
Refer to project binky as a video example where he joins the panels with a series of spots
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OP
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pollyp
Club Member
Indeed correct
Welsh is a catch 22
You need to set up the machine to weld
But you need to know how to weld to correctly set the machine
Setting the machine up in those 2 methods always leads to tge same result. X thick steel will always need Y amount of amps to melt it and Z amount of filler to fill the gap
Its a mathematical equation
The thing with our machines. Having a non linear feed we can change the wire thickness to keep the wire speed down in the tuneable/predictable area
Spotting per inch is how I weld body panels
Refer to project binky as a video example where he joins the panels with a series of spots
yeah running the thicker 0.8 wire to bump the speed down to the more consistant range of the dial would be ideal, but I'm now stuck with a 5kg spool of 0.6 now
not much of a problem now that I have the measured data of speeds.
I could spend all day calculating but tbh I'd rather just do it practically & try weld, listen & visually assess the result, adjust dial, test again.
aye I now know that you weld sheet metal via pulses to keep heat wayy down rather than long beads.
I miss binky-vision
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pollyp
Club Member
the catch can has only caught 100ml of clear fluid after awhile. the hose kept slipping off the end so gonna reprint the top with a slight lip end.
after much thought on how to make the MIG welder more mobile, I welded some castors onto a bar
and screwed it under the machine
the offset castors would strain the small screws so welded a brace beam and it's much stiffer now.
alot easier to move the machine around now
after much thought on how to make the MIG welder more mobile, I welded some castors onto a bar
and screwed it under the machine
the offset castors would strain the small screws so welded a brace beam and it's much stiffer now.
alot easier to move the machine around now
For years I had a dedicated body work MIG, a Clarke pro 90. It had low min amps (20A I think) which was great for body work. After 10 years of hard service and God knows how many liners and tips it finally packed in.
I know use my 151te which is OK for body work but not as suitable for thin stuff.
Welding comes down to practice and experience.
Please please please don't weld without gas, also stick to 0.6 wire for bodywork. You need the wire to melt before the steel to add to the pool.
I know use my 151te which is OK for body work but not as suitable for thin stuff.
Welding comes down to practice and experience.
Please please please don't weld without gas, also stick to 0.6 wire for bodywork. You need the wire to melt before the steel to add to the pool.
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pollyp
Club Member
Comes with experience Paul
I made a trolley for mine a while back that accepts my larger gas bottles
It also doubles as a man powered mario cart
just the mention of powered mario cart made me think of this
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pollyp
Club Member
a lower Min amp range would be nice but think I just need more practice to be more consistant welding thin stuff with gas without blowing holes.
and yea I'll of course try use gas most times. forgetting to turn off gas to seal up holes was a desperate measure at desperate times and the application wasn't too important so was an experimentation.
but now with all the neccesary bits, I can resume building more knowledge to do the next weld properly (potentially redo my sills & repair the wings and replace front panel)
