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PollyMobiles Rebuild

pollyp said:
k I know its too early to say but imho I'm beginning to think I won't be able to finish her in time for PPC cos I just caught a cold of someone yesterday so feel like crap with no energy, got an all-day expo to goto tomorrow with a 5am wakeup, more long hours doing all sorts programming & modelling. this is gonna kill me, wtf am I doin.

so basically no time for car so gonna miss the event unfortunately :oops:
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Get well soon Paul!
 
ok with that long expo event done and the cold going away, time to spend the weekend working on the car.

scraping the underseal off, it seems underseal does nothing but trap moisture so its surface rusting underneath and hiding it till it peels off.

gawd I hate rust. how m I suppose to treat this. when I use the wirebrush like shown below, it just smears the undercoat all over rather than going down to bare metal.

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abit of a crack in the middle

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usual surface rust on the backside

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gonna go get some antirust from halfrauds n try treat this stuff before undercoating and fit the engine in
 
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I think the best you can do is brush it back, treat it (although im personally not sure how good that stuff is) and cover it with something to stop that water getting to it as best you can. im afraid that rust in an unstoppable force in the UK :( That or keep it in a dry garage and use it on sunny sundays lol.
 
Noddie said:
I think the best you can do is brush it back, treat it (although im personally not sure how good that stuff is) and cover it with something to stop that water getting to it as best you can. im afraid that rust in an unstoppable force in the UK :( That or keep it in a dry garage and use it on sunny sundays lol.
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indeed rust is a sneeky nibbling annoyance that never stops in UK with cars made of rusty steel.
can only brush back to dry'ish rusty metal where its been rusting. other non rusty areas just clunged with tacky undercoat that smears around.

I do keep it garaged and I have tried all sorts of treatments from kurust to locktite stuff etc and tbh NOTHING short of totally regalvanising/painting the panel (or replace with composites) will stop rust, they mearly paint over the rust particles and delay the inevitable while the metal/rust continues corroding away inside
 
well I brought some apparantly Back to Metal hammerite stuff. looks like the sorta green slime you get back in the 90s ghostbusters toy lol

brushed it on several times and the hot sun bakes it dry. dunno if it works cos the rust is still there, just abit wetted/coated

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cba to wait n do a proper job (I'll deal with it later when it reappears) so commenced undercoating.

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intercooler on

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bumper on

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Just a quick question... Is there any better way to prevent these rust areas? I done a small job today so I use only underbody sealant. I know it's not a proper job (it will be a while) but i will do a proper job later on.
Cheers
Jk
 
I'm no expert but the best way I know is:
1. remove as much iron oxide rust down to bare metal with sanding/grinding etc
2. further remove rust particles with treatment and wipe clean with alchohol
3. maybe apply optional sacrificial layer (ie new car panels are zinc galvanised so that corrodes first for awhile before the steel begins) (never tried it but heard of zinc sprays etc)
4. seal the bare metal from the air with primer, paint, maybe laquer
5. further seal surface from moisture with a flexible underseal paint barrier
 
i saw some rust treatment for sea going ships.deal with salt. but used kurust and zinc primer in engine bay,so far so good. a tar surface after all that could stop stone chip penetration
 
If the rust treatment dries to early it might not work, the liquid acts as an electrolyte for a reaction where iron oxide is iirc converted into iron phosphate(?), it should turn the rust a slightly browny/purply dark shiney colour.
 
as Euno has already said but il put in my 2penith when I used that Hammerite rust treatment I kept applying it keeping it wet untill the rust turned to a dark grey, Jenolite is also good for sorting rust.... Glad your making progress :)
 
yeah it turned abit black/brown with tiny hint of rusty brown deep down but fookit it'll do for now and see how long it lasts and prob get a better chance to do it proper next time
 
well the engine's in, mounted up.
one of the front mount/engine bolt and the gearbox mount lower bolt is stripped though, applied some threadlock n hope it holds.
with all the mounts body filled rock solid, this engine aint shifting anywhere, tis gonna shake itself to pieces lol

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turbo n exhaust n clutch n driveshafts on. halfway there

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another silly design is the headlight studs exposed to all the rain etc tends to rust n seize so during removal it just spins in the plastic housing and make it difficult to remove

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so I drill a 5mm hole

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feed cable ties through em

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and secured through the bolt holes, no more rusty nuts

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injectors, TB, alternator, dizzy, plumbing and radiator fitted

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just need to finish the suspension and wiring and battery and by the weekend we're pretty much ready to prey and fire her up
 
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after 1 month in a dry boot the discs have rusted up again, made of quite a ferrous steel eh

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few finger numb mins of sanding it off

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wrapped the battery in some foam to sort out the annoying vibration

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suspension done, all fluids filled and just finished priming the oil system.
almost there, just need to finish the wiring, upload the correct map and she's itching ready to fire up on fri/sat :cool:
 
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really wanna double check the initial startup procedure for a rebuilt engine before I start her:

  • prime the oil then fuel without plugs,
  • start engine and just let her idle till she's 82C? or keep the revs moving by blipping between 1000-2000rpm till she's 82C?
  • once at 82C, shut down n cool off or begin initial break-in drive?
  • then begin the break-in driving
 
alot of break-in guides (mostly for flat tappet muscle engines with new cams) say keep the revs at 2k for 20min, so I'll adjust the throttle cable end nut to keep tension in the cable n hold at 2k till she's ready to drive.
 
pollyp said:
really wanna double check the initial startup procedure for a rebuilt engine before I start her:

  • prime the oil then fuel without plugs,
  • start engine and just let her idle till she's 82C? or keep the revs moving by blipping between 1000-2000rpm till she's 82C?
  • once at 82C, shut down n cool off or begin initial break-in drive?
  • then begin the break-in driving
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i just turn the key paul :D even if i have steamcleaned the oil galleries and pump, empty filter etc, the oil light still goes out within 5 secs (the assembly lube prevents any harm on startup eh :) )
and "running in" is a thing of the past surely ?
 
running in is hardly a thing of the past, not unless you're running sub 20 microns tolerances. Just don't labour the engine below 1.8k revs and don't rev above 3.5k for 500 miles and keep at about half throttle, then oil change and just go easy on it until you feel it start freeing up. This is what jigsaw racing services recommended.
 
frank said:
i just turn the key paul :D even if i have steamcleaned the oil galleries and pump, empty filter etc, the oil light still goes out within 5 secs (the assembly lube prevents any harm on startup eh :) )
and "running in" is a thing of the past surely ?
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for used bearings n rings/bores yes but this is a rebuilt engine with new sharp rings and rough freshly machined bores etc
they need a break-in to match n seal good
 
Enuo said:
running in is hardly a thing of the past, not unless you're running sub 20 microns tolerances. Just don't labour the engine below 1.8k revs and don't rev above 3.5k for 500 miles and keep at about half throttle, then oil change and just go easy on it until you feel it start freeing up. This is what jigsaw racing services recommended.
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indeed for newer modern engines which might be designed n machined within microns so the break-in period is shortened alot or some companies even do the break-in at the factory before delivery but this is a freshly machined engine and so should be prepped as u mentioned, noted
 
What oil are you using for the break in ??

Also do not allow a new ringed engine to idle, I know from a lot experience that once happy there no leaks and oil pressure good get it underway straight away and under load, don't use any light throttle.
 
Robert Whelan said:
What oil are you using for the break in ??

Also do not allow a new ringed engine to idle, I know from a lot experience that once happy there no leaks and oil pressure good get it underway straight away and under load, don't use any light throttle.
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halfords 20w50 classic mineral oil as my cousin suggested.

k so basically do what I did when I first bedded the forged engine:
prime oil & fuel, start and rev to 2k till warm while checking for leaks, once warm drive out to country and do few hundred miles at 25% 2k-4k, few hundred at 50% 2k-5k, change oil at 500m and resume 75% 2k-6k till 1000m and 100% till 2000m
 
Mineral base oil is o.k, but millers do a 30w running in oil that excellent at running in the rings and if your running racing rings due to been a forged piston after 400miles it should be run in, then change to a mineral based oil for another 400 miles. Then that it run it normally. The first 100miles is the critical time for running them in
 
Robert Whelan said:
Mineral base oil is o.k, but millers do a 30w running in oil that excellent at running in the rings and if your running racing rings due to been a forged piston after 400miles it should be run in, then change to a mineral based oil for another 400 miles. Then that it run it normally. The first 100miles is the critical time for running them in
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tis already primed with that oil so no turning back.

indeed the first few miles are crucial but so many conflicting methods and again just feel like when I first tried bedding-in.
just reading motomans method and it sounds convincing but controversial and the past few times I tried it (when I first re-ringed old polly1 and first time I ran the forged engine on polly2) it didn't seem to work or burnt oil. now I dunno if that was due to bad machining or from the break-in but certainly doesn't guarantee for certain if the procedure really works for me and so I have alot of doubt cos I don't have a 2nd chance.

I really need a 100% expert advice on how to run these rings properly to ensure best seal, no oil leaks and max performance.
lets look back at my past emails with JE pistons...
 
ok my last email with sebastian at JE bout the break-in was last year and he agreed it sounded right was:

  1. the first moment i start the engine I'd be mainly warming it up by continuously blipping the throttle 1-3k rpm in neutral for rappid warmup, maintain enough oil pressure and never keeping the revs steady to help provide some combustion pressure on the rings to aid break-in whilst stationary and prevent glazing.
  2. once warmed up i let it cool down afew hours.
  3. Then I start her up, never letting her idle too long by always blipping 700-1000rpm, and begin the break-in process by driving around empty country roads up & down the revs 1-3k rpm in 2nd/3rd gear keeping below 5psi boost with upto 50% throttle for 500miles.
  4. change oil & filter.
  5. next rev 2-5k rpm below 5psi upto 75% throttle upto 1000mile
  6. change oil & filter
  7. then rev 2-7k rpm at max 10psi WOT upto 1500miles
  8. change filter and finally switch to my normal 10w40 semi-synth castrol gtx.
 
we dpont let it warm up, we push the car from the ramp once have oil pressure and slowly drive it, as you want to work the rev range more than it just sitting there, once warm bring it back and allow to cool checking for leaks etc
 
will930 said:
we dpont let it warm up, we push the car from the ramp once have oil pressure and slowly drive it, as you want to work the rev range more than it just sitting there, once warm bring it back and allow to cool checking for leaks etc
Click to expand...

so start her up, keep the revs moving up down above 1k,
quickly bleed the coolant, check there's no major leaks and drive straight out round the block to warm her up asap,
back home once warmed,
check again for leaks,
maybe check cylinders, plugs & compression,
then while still warm, begin the break-in driving
 
Well I am expert on this as I build race engine as my day job and run the engines on the dyno. The main thing is too never let them idle for periods of time. Rings bed in due to the pressure of the compression behind them, this is why the engine has to be underload all the time. If idling it has no pressure behind the rings and therefore don't bed the rings in and polish the bores
 
Robert Whelan said:
Well I am expert on this as I build race engine as my day job and run the engines on the dyno. The main thing is too never let them idle for periods of time. Rings bed in due to the pressure of the compression behind them, this is why the engine has to be underload all the time. If idling it has no pressure behind the rings and therefore don't bed the rings in and polish the bores
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totally agree to never let it idle for long, I always try to keep it moving n drive out asap.

just concerned about the sequence of amount of load vs rev vs miles.
what if I push her too much too early, could I blow rings or do more damage?
what if I run each load/rev sequence too long and run out of break-in window cos the bores have already been mostly polished before the rings have matched? (motoman says we only have like 20miles till its mostly bedded)
 
oil and water pump won't take heat from hotspots caused by high points on journals etc at low revs, and high revs generates a lot of heat too. It's about not introducing thermal stresses eh
 
It's only the rings and pistons that are new right? You shouldn't have to worry about bearings.
Sounds to me like you should turn the key and go have some fun Paul ;) part load till its warm then give it some of your famous right foot!
Have fun! I'm jealous!
 
Enuo said:
oil and water pump won't take heat from hotspots caused by high points on journals etc at low revs, and high revs generates a lot of heat too. It's about not introducing thermal stresses eh
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aye basically keep the revs moving and in the middleground, no lugging nor rev its nuts off, just methodical progressive application
 
Noddie said:
It's only the rings and pistons that are new right? You shouldn't have to worry about bearings.
Sounds to me like you should turn the key and go have some fun Paul ;) part load till its warm then give it some of your famous right foot!
Have fun! I'm jealous!
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pistons, rings, bores, mains, journals, crank thrust bearings. the bottom end is fresh basically.

so roughly at the moment the idea is startup, check leaks, drive out to the country as normal to warm up, progressively pulse & glide harder and harder as the miles rack up
 
K just spoke to cousin and he suggested:

After startup check for leaks,
top coolant,
either hold revs at a steady fast idle or drive round the block like normal to warm up,
recheck for leaks,
then drive normal light medium loads for 500m,
gradually add more load more revs as the miles increase and she'll also rev more loosely n freely.
Oil change at 1000m,
More load, revs for few hundred miles,
Oil change after 2k and we're done.

I may change oil at regular 500m in case of initial debris. Changing oil too often won't hurt it other than abit of the wallet
 
been looking at more forums bout break-in procedures that ppl with turbos use and this one seems ok

My research tells me the best way to break in an engine and get the rings seated properly is to do the following. Start engine and hold engine revs at 2000rpm until at operating temp, then go out and drive the car from 30-60mph with half to 3/4 throttle so that there is enough cylinder pressure to push the rings out and seat better, then engine brake back down to 30 and do the same thing about 6 times, then finish off with a good close to full throttle pull. Shut off the engine and change the oil and filter, then drive the car with low boost for about 500miles (not highway) and then change the oil and filter again....now your engine is broken in.
smile.gif

This is how I plan to break mine in this spring.
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http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/new...g-motor-break-merged-10-6-a-5.html#post754336
 
Oh ffs I was planning on starting her tday. All cameras n batteries n stuff ready. Drove all over town for an hour assessing the appropriate route and level of traffic.

Got home, was about to upload the map when the dash lights appear so dim wtf

Check voltage and oh feck 5v
I think the other day I accidentally left it on slow charge all day and absolutely cooked the battery cos I could've heard it fizz and now its failed to hold charge for few days.

Bollucks gonna cost me another hundred £ for a new one. Trying to fast charge it at the mo
 

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