ma10 + eaton supercharger

richj

richj

Deactivated Account
I have been, until a few days ago, planning a figaro engine for my k10.

I have changed my mind, and decided to supercharge an otherwise standard ma10.

I plan on using the supercharger from a mini cooper s, rootes type.


Has anyone actually found out how far you can push the standard carb in a blow through setup?

My preference at the moment is to mount the carb before the charger. I'm not going to be aiming for MASSIVE power increases, which is why I think i can get away without an intercooler. My ambition is to get the setup working reliably @ + 25 bhp. I think at 90bhp the clutch and gearbox will become a problem. Maybe not the gearbox - undecided about that.

I will not be changing the compression / replacing the headgasket.

My current understanding is that I will ^probably get away with adjusting the timing with a standard dizzy - hopefully will get away with using the standard hitachi unmodified BEFORE the supercharger, and that getting a tort belt to the supercharger is not going to be too much of a challenge.


I would really like to know what you guys think.
 
richj said:
I have been, until a few days ago, planning a figaro engine for my k10.

I have changed my mind, and decided to supercharge an otherwise standard ma10.

I plan on using the supercharger from a mini cooper s, rootes type.


Has anyone actually found out how far you can push the standard carb in a blow through setup?

My preference at the moment is to mount the carb before the charger. I'm not going to be aiming for MASSIVE power increases, which is why I think i can get away without an intercooler. My ambition is to get the setup working reliably @ + 25 bhp. I think at 90bhp the clutch and gearbox will become a problem. Maybe not the gearbox - undecided about that.

I will not be changing the compression / replacing the headgasket.

My current understanding is that I will ^probably get away with adjusting the timing with a standard dizzy - hopefully will get away with using the standard hitachi unmodified BEFORE the supercharger, and that getting a tort belt to the supercharger is not going to be too much of a challenge.


I would really like to know what you guys think.
Click to expand...

Waste of time imo,If you just had a car you were not using with all the parts you needed it would make a nice project but not as a daily driver. . . .unless your really commited. . . .

The Ma10et from a fig is a far better idea

Also How would mount the carb before the charger and have it air tight,and getting a belt to run the s/c far too much effort.A supercharger from an st(Actually larger than a Mini Coopers),I think should bolt on to the block but still far to much work involved
 
actually i think that part will be easy. Just an adapter plate and two 'modified' gaskets... one either side of the plate.

I was a little concerned about the joining to the inlet manifold until i realised i could get away with using a standard carb on the inlet manifold with flaps removed, and possibly some epoxy to smooth any issues away.

Regarding actually having the supercharger fitted properly my only concern is actually providing the correct drive and gear. I am hoping to be able to use the alternator belt. Short of this the major concerns are getting the fueling right; I think the standard carb before the supercharger will take care of this, and the ignition which TBH I dont know if i'll get away with. I have some rough figures but avoiding detonation is obviously the major conern.
 
richj

most setups did mount the carb pre-charger because of the problem of blowing the fuel back down the jet and leaning out
i think it would be pretty straight forward but i think the belt is wider than an alternator one and it would be pulling down on the manifold with quite a force, so brackets are needed and i think a simular one in oz was overdriven at about 1.5:1
 
ive seen a 1.75 inch su carb bolt onto a s/c and it worked fine....
figaro does seem a better convertion though
 
Unfortunately.....I dont have the experience in the super charging department to comment

...but this sounds like an interesting project to me

nice one richj...I hope this works out well for you

are there any more S/C gurus in here that can help richj?
 
i think they are rated by their displacement (cc,s/rev) so you would gear it to suit your engine size
 
I believe the k10's with power steering / airconditioning have an extra pully after the alternator one. I would imagine this is an oem part that can be bought off the shelf? If so - it would seem ideal.

Im getting a little further with this now. Its looking like i may be able to get away with bolting the supercharger (by means of a custom designed block of some form) straight to the inlet manifold. Im trying to get the figures together to work out if the supercharger pulley and an added aircon pully will line up, with the adapter plate/block still able to function fully. It actually looks likely it will.

If it does, I will need a 90deg bend to mount the carb at the inlet to the s/c. I also dont yet have correct figures for the dimentions - not sure there will be clearance for the carb against the bonet - might mean i need to go 90deg down across and then back up for the carb.

This all seems like it is possible without too much aggrevation. It does lead to issue of supporting all the extra weight (and momentum) the inlet manifold is going to have to endure.

In short - actually physically getting the s/c all bolted up air tight seems possible without massive amounts of money. Its all going to come down to correctly designing the two 'interface' blocks/plates and getting the gearing right.


I am concerned the engine wont be able to handle even a minimal amount of boost. The clutch is also a concern.

Would it be possible to use the ECU controlled ignition on the later k10's to allow automatic adjustment of ignition when the supercharger is not being used?
 
why bother with this idear and the time and money for only 25+bhp when a different inlet manifold un carb and 4 branch exhaust manifold setup would get you this at a fraction of the cost
 
bobsp16 said:
why bother with this idear and the time and money for only 25+bhp when a different inlet manifold un carb and 4 branch exhaust manifold setup would get you this at a fraction of the cost
Click to expand...

I don't think a new inlet manifold and exhaust manifold would be a fraction of the cost. Going with the blower running reliably on a standard engine - I the have the option of having a custom inlet manifold and exhaust manifold made which under boost would make even more difference than standard. In essence I think the supercharger 'might' be up and running for sub £500 & will also give me a lot of options. The main expenses that I can envision are the blower itself, a new fuel pump and a better ignition system (which I think nissan has designed already). I think I can make brackets and adapter block/plates relatively cheaply - I'm guessing the pulley will be cheap too.


http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_2511/article.html
awesome link! I'm reading through all of the parts. Cheers!
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Remember that driving a supercharger requires power from your engine. So if you're supercharger is designed to run from a 1.6 then you may have trouble actually driving the charger.

You also need an additional pully off the engine, you need to mount the supercharger somewhere in the bay and have the belt running perfectly straight, and chances are you'll need a custom exhaust manifold to fit around the supercharger.
 
Alienfish360 said:
Remember that driving a supercharger requires power from your engine. So if you're supercharger is designed to run from a 1.6 then you may have trouble actually driving the charger.

You also need an additional pully off the engine, you need to mount the supercharger somewhere in the bay and have the belt running perfectly straight, and chances are you'll need a custom exhaust manifold to fit around the supercharger.
Click to expand...

I think the load depends on how the supercharger is geared, i.e how much boost it is producing + the drag from the pulley system. I think I can get away with using the standard inlet manifold with an adapter between it and the s/c.

The s/c isnt designed to power a 1.6. Its a generic device designed to operate from between a 1.0l and 2.0l engine. At least thats what a webpage with tech specs about the 45 wrote.

As a side note - I believe the 45 also has a built in control that allows the disengagement of the s/c when required.
 
Alienfish360 said:
Remember that driving a supercharger requires power from your engine. So if you're supercharger is designed to run from a 1.6 then you may have trouble actually driving the charger.
Click to expand...

Compleately not true. A cordless drill will spin the mini charger with no load. You design the pully ratio to give the boost you want, there will always be enough power to drive the charger.

As a side note - I believe the 45 also has a built in control that allows the disengagement of the s/c when required.
Click to expand...
No the mini one don't. Youll need to either gear it carefully or put a bypass pressure relief valve on it. You really dont want it to make much boost at all.

Crude yes but I think it could be made to work.
 
What sort of boost / torque power figures do you think are achievable without an intercooler ed?
 
bobsp16 said:
why bother with this idear and the time and money for only 25+bhp when a different inlet manifold un carb and 4 branch exhaust manifold setup would get you this at a fraction of the cost
Click to expand...

true BUT:


(sometimes) time, money and power gains aren't the most important factors

for some its the technical challenge or learning-jorney and having fun along the way, being unique etc
 
I would aim for about the same as a fig. So 75bhp and probably around the same for the torque.
 
I would recommend it but no, you could probably get away with retarding the timing on the distributor. Very crude and unrefined yes, but I think it could be made to work at least.
 
I'm also concerned the fuel pump might not be able to cope. Do you think I'd have to replace it with an electric one?
 
One way to find out!! (your going to need to measure AFR anyway)
 
if you're only supercharging at fairly low rpm (up to 2 - 2.5krpm?), my guess is that your float chamber stock in the carb will handle the short duration higer demand fueling....the pump may top up the float chamber at higher RPM street speed limits (30mph in 3rd gear? higher mph limits in 4th gear?)
 
does anyone know anywhere that sells carb inlet flanges for the 45?

Anyone have any custom inlet manifold contacts?
 
richj

you can,t beat the old SU
2 inch ( 50mm bore, thats bigger than a k11 t/b ) loads of adjustment ( mainjet screwable and you shave a flat down the needle for fine tuning ) and its a sidedraft, ideal for your mini s/c and a simple manifold setup ( 4 bolts in a square )
 
The SU seems perfect. minispeed sell an eaton w45 kit for the mini which comes with a inlet (elbow?) designed for the HIF44 SU carburettor. I've emailed them to find out if they will sell the inletelbow separately.

Next problem is the custom inlet manifold & sourcing a suitable pully
 
I've read the MA12 has the spare pully for the optional power steering. Has anyone got any details of the powersteering pulley width? Any pictures etc? Know where theres one for sale?

What load does the power steering pump put through the standard pulley?
 
I got the supercharger through the post today. Heres a pic of it sat on top of the airbox / carb. It looks like the brake master cylinder resevoir might get in the way. Other than that, the s/c is almost the ideal length.
 

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hey

i looked into this with my pug and now this too the figo drop would be far far easier and probably better and more economical.

i see the way ur doing it very interesting but a lil to much work st supercharger would be far easier and cheaper i the long run. the figo would be even cheaper.

as for the gearbox run a clutch to suit the power so it grips but doesn’t put to much strain on the gearbox, lighter flywheel redline oils and oil cooler and pump to the box 100bhp will last a long wail before failing on you. i have same problem with my 323 gtr at 330 bhp and i have done this and worked quite well
 
I have changed plans. I'm going for a 1.3k11 engine instead of the s/c. With the 1.3 fitted and running i'll again look at the s/c but with a better base to build from.
 
Good luch with your new plans

Double DRAT!

I was looking forward to the MA +S/C.


At least a good few things have been considered and discussed on this.

we're 'rooting' for you with the 1.3 project!

(< rooting / roots > a bad play on words link to a supercharger joke....eek painfull...nevermind,,,sorry...lol)
 

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