K11 vs Swift GTI
- Thread starter Mark
- Start date
J
JamieGti
Guest
Rare as hens teeth though, and most have had a GOOD kicking!bobsp16 said:
You know of any for sale?
Those are lovely wee cars!
a stock swift gti is quicker than a stock micra.... everyone knows that.
equally modified swift VS equally modified micra....would be interesting...
Tuning potential for both is good, but more for micra... sorry swifty boys but its true....just look at all the tuning companies out there catering for micras in england, europe, japan, australia, america
equally modified swift VS equally modified micra....would be interesting...
Tuning potential for both is good, but more for micra... sorry swifty boys but its true....just look at all the tuning companies out there catering for micras in england, europe, japan, australia, america
Antony
Ex. Club Member
i know someone that had a S1 rallye.......in white.....and he blew it up.
yeah it was quick......but it was french...and it went pop big style.
he had a piper cam, full manifold back exhaust, super chip, lightened flywheel.
and it used to spin its wheels in third......but it popped a head gasket, then shoved a piston through the side of the block whilst going up a looooong hill..
idiot..
yeah it was quick......but it was french...and it went pop big style.
he had a piper cam, full manifold back exhaust, super chip, lightened flywheel.
and it used to spin its wheels in third......but it popped a head gasket, then shoved a piston through the side of the block whilst going up a looooong hill..
idiot..
Dr Zoidberg
Ex. Club Member
Ian said:
this sounds a lot more realistic as i have seen dyno results for janspeed k11's range from 95-101 bhp. as i said earlier they are only as fast a VTR with exhaust and they are 90-100 bhp more torque than a k11 and heavier by nearly 100 kgs.
90 bhp from the exhaust mods seems more like it.
but mark to say that you don't get a good gain from a janspeed exhaust is just rubbish. the cg series engine is very restricted in the exhaust. iirc it was to reduce emissions etc
swift will beat the janspeed k11 up the 1/4 its designed to go fast in straight line, k11 will need vast weight saving or cams.
micra_pete
Ex. Club Member
its the same for the swift though sunny.
My money agasinsts just about everyone on the msc with a n/a micra would be on mark, there is very little in the way of fast na k11's on here.
i quiet like the swifts, however lads your arguing about racing two 1300 shopping trollies, seriously. both will go okay, but neither will set the world on fire
My money agasinsts just about everyone on the msc with a n/a micra would be on mark, there is very little in the way of fast na k11's on here.
i quiet like the swifts, however lads your arguing about racing two 1300 shopping trollies, seriously. both will go okay, but neither will set the world on fire
antony_aiken said:
I dont believe it would. A swift is only 30KG or so lighter? Chie's car had dropped a bit of weight, back seats spare wheel etc. Was said to be putting out just over 100bhp, clocked at 8.3-8.5 to 60 repeatadly and the best he ever ahieved (ok was with a gtec and not a proper 1/4) was very high 16's.
If you look at both cars, they have rather similar gear ratio's, just the swift rev's higher to get faster..
Swift
Gear ratios
* 1: 3.416 - 37.19mph (30.21 6500rpm)
* 2: 1.894 - 67.07mph (54.49 6500rpm
* 3: 1.375 - 92.38mph (75.06 6500rpm)
* 4: 1.030 - 123.33mph (100.20 6500rpm)
* 5: 0.870 - 146.01mph (118.63 6500rpm)
* Reverse: 3.272
* Final drive: 4.105
micra
1st 3.3333 - 32.63
2nd 1.9545 - 55.66
3rd 1.2857 - 84.61
4th 0.9268 - 117.37
5th 0.7556 - 143.97
Reverse 3.4167
Final 3.8947
No one is gonna spank a standard GTi with just an exhaust system, your going to need the remap to edge ahead, then cams should put you close to 1/2 second ahead on a 1/4 mile. This is all just agaist a standard one though. I dont think they are worth comparing, the 1.3 16v 75bhp swift is where its at.
Type-R said:
lol no the swift will still spank the micra with the same mods. the G13B is a far superior motor to work on. YEs the gains you'll get for your money will be smaller but once you hit the 75kw @ flywheel area with the CG13 you're going to be throwing alot of money for very, very little gain. And the suzuki motor is already at those figures. Yeh it can be done but nah its not going to be cheap!
Unless of course you invest in a bottle of happy gas. But thats not cheap either, but its cheaper than some of the other things you can do.
If you guys with micras are looking for more power and straight line speed, sell the micra. You'll be forever unhappy here. Buy an N14 or N15 with an SR20DE motor. Drop a jap import SR20DET into it and laugh so hard you pee your pants as you spank the pants off pretty much anything else on the roads thats not a V8 (even then you've got a fleeting chance) with a mid 13 second 1/4 mile car.
Antony
Ex. Club Member
so by your reconing...if the micra's gear ratio's were i dunno....90mph in first gear then it would be better down the quarter...
your not understanding the way gear ratio's work..
if you have an engine that can rev to 8000 rpm freely in .3 of a second......no matter what gear ratio you have, its only gonna be able to pull to 8000rpm at a set speed...and the higher the ratio the longer it will take to get to that speed..
so with a car of equal power...... ie 100bhp...... with closer ratios your gonna be out of first and into second gear in the "power band" again whilst your still trying to reach your higher redline.......
with longer ratios your gonna be in the gear longer, but whilst your trying to hold out on that gear your gonna loose out on the "power band".
its all about physics...... if you have a 100bhp car, weighing 800kgs and another 100bhp car weighing 800kgs...........the one with closer ratio's is going to accelerate quicker...
otherwise why would f1 cars bother having 7 gears all very closely spaced together?........why do rally cars have very close ratio gears?....
and your comment
"No one is gonna spank a standard GTi with just an exhaust system"
true..... no one is saying that.... indeed a full system on a standard CG13DE will release about 95-100 bhp..... but again its heavier...... so will need about another 5-10bhp to be competative.......so cams are a must....... but let me stress the gti is a GTI.. the micra was designed to take grannies to and from the shops...just happens that the cams arent too hot..... but the engine itself is very well made, very easily tuned and well capable of producing just as much power as any swift engine..
and probs more reliabily....
your not understanding the way gear ratio's work..
if you have an engine that can rev to 8000 rpm freely in .3 of a second......no matter what gear ratio you have, its only gonna be able to pull to 8000rpm at a set speed...and the higher the ratio the longer it will take to get to that speed..
so with a car of equal power...... ie 100bhp...... with closer ratios your gonna be out of first and into second gear in the "power band" again whilst your still trying to reach your higher redline.......
with longer ratios your gonna be in the gear longer, but whilst your trying to hold out on that gear your gonna loose out on the "power band".
its all about physics...... if you have a 100bhp car, weighing 800kgs and another 100bhp car weighing 800kgs...........the one with closer ratio's is going to accelerate quicker...
otherwise why would f1 cars bother having 7 gears all very closely spaced together?........why do rally cars have very close ratio gears?....
and your comment
"No one is gonna spank a standard GTi with just an exhaust system"
true..... no one is saying that.... indeed a full system on a standard CG13DE will release about 95-100 bhp..... but again its heavier...... so will need about another 5-10bhp to be competative.......so cams are a must....... but let me stress the gti is a GTI.. the micra was designed to take grannies to and from the shops...just happens that the cams arent too hot..... but the engine itself is very well made, very easily tuned and well capable of producing just as much power as any swift engine..
and probs more reliabily....
bobsp16
Site Supporter
antony_aiken said:
who care's when they go like that...lol,
the 1.3 rallye has 100bhp as standard which uses the vtr head and has massive valvas,,thats what i was told
the 1360 xsi has 100bhp in standard form with smaller valvas, i no a lad that rattled his rallye's bottom end so he swopped it for rebuilt 1360 bottom end and it flew
I'll give mulbers a chance. A decent modified ma12 engine could reach about 90bhp @ wheels as seen on bobsp16's car. And it clearly has a weight advantage.
I'll tell you what, If mulbers doesn't beat you, I'll take my lazy ass over to england next year to prove you wrong in a k10 ma12 (don't own one, but will buy one to prove it has potential ...) .
You have my word (if you still have the swift by then) !
Ne1LL.
I'll tell you what, If mulbers doesn't beat you, I'll take my lazy ass over to england next year to prove you wrong in a k10 ma12 (don't own one, but will buy one to prove it has potential ...) .
You have my word (if you still have the swift by then) !
Ne1LL.
OP
OP
Mark
Ex. Club Member
Good to see this discussion is going well, dont quite know why bobsp16 has bought in 106 rallyee's.
If it is so easy to tune up a CG13 like a few have said then why has no one done this? maybe the cg13 is a more reliable motor but what would happen if you rev'd a cg13 to 8000rpm every now and again?
So from what i can see its only Raceworx who is up for the challenge? I cant see a swift being a lot lighter than a k11, swift is 835 kg kerb weight i think i read somewhere,
I beleive in suzuki's gear ratio's and standard set up for the swift to beat any N/A micra on this site down the quarter.
If it is so easy to tune up a CG13 like a few have said then why has no one done this? maybe the cg13 is a more reliable motor but what would happen if you rev'd a cg13 to 8000rpm every now and again?
So from what i can see its only Raceworx who is up for the challenge? I cant see a swift being a lot lighter than a k11, swift is 835 kg kerb weight i think i read somewhere,
I beleive in suzuki's gear ratio's and standard set up for the swift to beat any N/A micra on this site down the quarter.
CG13 is fine rev'd to 8 grand, jap tuners use that figure all the time with standard bottom ends and valvetrain, it may shorten its life, but it won't be rev to it 20 times and explode kind of thing, it'll be fine, anything past there though and your asking for trouble.
no raceworx car's timing is 12 degree's out, he done a 0-60 recently and the time was appauling. hes lucky it doesnt break, sort it out ian. The only way to beat the gti is to have the full janspeed and came and or a re-map.
if the gti is 835KG then thats very similar to a k11.
no raceworx car's timing is 12 degree's out, he done a 0-60 recently and the time was appauling. hes lucky it doesnt break, sort it out ian
. The only way to beat the gti is to have the full janspeed and came and or a re-map.if the gti is 835KG then thats very similar to a k11.
micra_pete
Ex. Club Member
Ian said:
i have a 8k+ rev limit, i very rarely hit it apart from in testing, however im clocking big mileage now, engine not dead yet
Ian said:
hows that been worked out then?
M
Mulbers
Guest
Ne1LL said:I'll give mulbers a chance. A decent modified ma12 engine could reach about 90bhp @ wheels as seen on bobsp16's car. And it clearly has a weight advantage.
I'll tell you what, If mulbers doesn't beat you, I'll take my lazy ass over to england next year to prove you wrong in a k10 ma12 (don't own one, but will buy one to prove it has potential ...) .
You have my word (if you still have the swift by then) !
Ne1LL.
Bloody hell! What ya doing to me man? Got a lot to live upto now. Il race him but i have no expectations of beating him.
I am however out to beat his best time of 17.8.
How many of us are going to it this time round??
micra_pete
Ex. Club Member
not quiet surw how he worked that one out then
59 bhp is more than enough
Deactivated Account
Mark said:
what so you come on a micra forum and argue that the swift gti is a faster car than the micra, we all know that but it isnt exactly a huge achievmant now is it. I could go on a citreon 2cv owners club and rave that my micra could beat a lot of there cars down the quarter. BIG WHOOP.
lots of people have put a full system on there car and induction mods including myself and come up with the 90-95 bhp. why do you have trouble believing this?
there is a huge amount of poeple who have N/A tuned cg13's with great sucess. why do you think they are so popular in rallying? put it this way there are more dedicated tuners to the micra than your swift gti so there must be some potentiol in the car or they wouldnt bother.
Mark said:
thats because it doesnt, a decent 4-2-1 and straight through exhaust with decent induction will add about 20bhp please try and get your facts straight in future
OP
OP
Mark
Ex. Club Member
59 bhp is more than enough said:
No i dont just come on a micra forum and start an arguement, I am a paying member unlike yourself and have used this forum for a couple of years now, I have met a number of members and a few are who i would call my friends. I have owned 6 Micras in total and wanted a friendly bit of fun which I hope wont be ruined by people like you 59bhp,
Fordy
Ex. Club Member
using his datascan software
what a surprise your WRONG!
his timing is probably right or close to being right but, DONT use consult to adjust the timing or check that its right as its the completely wrong way to do it and your timing wont be right, do it the normal way to check and adjust the timing
sounds like someone is using something they dont understand, also dont use datascan to correct the idle or timing as your covering a problem which will make it worse
what a surprise your WRONG!
his timing is probably right or close to being right but, DONT use consult to adjust the timing or check that its right as its the completely wrong way to do it and your timing wont be right, do it the normal way to check and adjust the timing
sounds like someone is using something they dont understand, also dont use datascan to correct the idle or timing as your covering a problem which will make it worse
59 bhp is more than enough
Deactivated Account
Mark said:
so all you can do is throw slimy insults about when you was very clearly wrong, how old are you?
and what because you pay for a member ship that gives you free reign to disrespect everyone who does the usual exhaust and intake mods by saying "i dont beleive in this 4-2-1 manifold gives you 25bhp rubbish"
and out of all the points that i made you only comment on 1st part
Alienfish360
Awesome Dawson
With the datscan I was wrong, and it's been explained to me know thankfully by Ed, nice one dude. And, yeah it's not 12 degrees off, ah well.
Raceworx
IM BRINGING SEXY BACK
i dont know why people dont belive the 100bhp from an exhaust mine was dynod infronm of everyone on a baking hot day with a ####y K&N filter no cold air feed.. janspeed and cat back and it was 95BHP i dont see why with a decent air filter, and the cams in it wont be a bit over 100BHP..
ill race you amrk i dont expect to win.. i want to run because i want to see if the cams are doing anything.. TBH my cars for corners lets go to curbourgh sprint track and have a race and see who wins???
poeple shouldnt slag mark off he speaks his mind and abit of freindly competition is healthy for a club..
and yes me and phill messed with a datscan i wanted to get definitive proof of top speeds in each gear but he wasnt logging. i also did the worst 0-60 time iv ever felt it felt slow i launched crap i short shifted the lot and maaged an appaling 10secs.. i know its alot faster than that...
ill race you amrk i dont expect to win.. i want to run because i want to see if the cams are doing anything.. TBH my cars for corners lets go to curbourgh sprint track and have a race and see who wins???
poeple shouldnt slag mark off he speaks his mind and abit of freindly competition is healthy for a club..
and yes me and phill messed with a datscan i wanted to get definitive proof of top speeds in each gear but he wasnt logging. i also did the worst 0-60 time iv ever felt it felt slow i launched crap i short shifted the lot and maaged an appaling 10secs.. i know its alot faster than that...
C
Challenge
Guest
you can get 95 hp with a jan speed exaust en other air intake.
I dit a lot of run's on a dino.
I got now 120 wit only other cams and pistons.
I dit a lot of run's on a dino.
I got now 120 wit only other cams and pistons.
And how about a k10 with modified cg13 engine ? It would have a weight advantage right ?
Arnold, how's that car of yours coming along ?
It just depends on so many things: horse power, torque, wheel size, weight, driving skills, gear ratio's, ...
I guess it's pretty much impossible to predict this.
Arnold, how's that car of yours coming along
?It just depends on so many things: horse power, torque, wheel size, weight, driving skills, gear ratio's, ...
I guess it's pretty much impossible to predict this.
Theres a lot of willie waving as usual here..
With my CG13 with:
Janspeed 4,2,1,
Cone air filter,
1.6TB & ECU,
Redneck Decat and Remus backbox,
I was dyno'd on a VERY accurate system JUST shy of 100BHP..
On a much newer engine with decent Cold feed intake on a decent filter, with a better than standard catback... Will see you nudged over 100bhp..
Let alone CAMS and any remapping..
These should see you over 120bhp easy...
Ive been on dynos and ive weighed up the COST-BHP with regards to the CG13 and I think anything other than the above mods and the addition of cams are the only NA mods worth taking that are value for money, so to speak.
either go turbo or drop in an SR20DE...
I beleive that going turbo and dropping in an SR20 are around the same price with both having plus points and negative points..Personnally Ive decided to combine the two with an SR20 Turbo..
I think there ARE much quicker standard 1.3 NA cars out there with the SWIFT being a good example, If you have a CG13 with the above mods you will be knocking out a similar or better peformance...
I think the best thing by far would be to turbo the CG13 with it having a VERY strong block.... Its a crying shame its somthing nissan never did to the micra... so turbo gear is so hard to get hold of..
Get some CG13 T CUBE kits people and mark will have no chance..
With my CG13 with:
Janspeed 4,2,1,
Cone air filter,
1.6TB & ECU,
Redneck Decat and Remus backbox,
I was dyno'd on a VERY accurate system JUST shy of 100BHP..
On a much newer engine with decent Cold feed intake on a decent filter, with a better than standard catback... Will see you nudged over 100bhp..
Let alone CAMS and any remapping..
These should see you over 120bhp easy...
Ive been on dynos and ive weighed up the COST-BHP with regards to the CG13 and I think anything other than the above mods and the addition of cams are the only NA mods worth taking that are value for money, so to speak.
either go turbo or drop in an SR20DE...
I beleive that going turbo and dropping in an SR20 are around the same price with both having plus points and negative points..Personnally Ive decided to combine the two with an SR20 Turbo..
I think there ARE much quicker standard 1.3 NA cars out there with the SWIFT being a good example, If you have a CG13 with the above mods you will be knocking out a similar or better peformance...
I think the best thing by far would be to turbo the CG13 with it having a VERY strong block.... Its a crying shame its somthing nissan never did to the micra... so turbo gear is so hard to get hold of..
Get some CG13 T CUBE kits people and mark will have no chance..
