iam building a turbo setup, some advice and answers please!

[Machi san]

Hi all.

I have a k10, see project Dattosan Machi.

tonight iam picking up a cg13de with 45k on it.

i have a large pace chargecooler and a td04 (wastegate will go 7-10psi)

that is my starting point and what i want to base the project around.

fuel will be handled by facet redtop feeding swirl pot followed by sytec motorsport inj pump (300hp capable). oh and megasquirt ms1 extra code with wasted spark.

now iam struggling to find a few answers.

what can the stock headgasket take (in good condition)?
how much hp will the stock injectors flow too?

I will be using the 1000cc small casing 5 speed box, i know they arent that strong but iam not brutal on gearboxes and at 20squid a pop ill go with that. But roughly what will the box and 1ltr clutch take. Torque kills boxes so i will limit boost at peak torque (the ms has boost control).

I have other q's but cant remember lol.

To summarize can i run 7-10psi on stock injectors, headgasket, fuel rail ect ect

Thanks
Kev

 

[frank]

the little 160mm clutch is going to be your weakest link by far kev (my exedy clutch slipped at about 90hp, and my factory/luk one is at its limit at around 100hp)
and the torque from the turbo will make the situation worse

 

[Machi san]

Hi Frank thanks for the reply.
Maybe i should just stick the megasquirt on with reground cams. should be close to 100hp then. and just stick with that, maybe add throttle bodies down the road if i need it.

or budget for an expensive paddle clutch maybe

 

[Machi san]

Ok so bumping this back up

Iam swapping to the larger gearbox and clutch. I have cut and shut driveshafts with big outer knuckles so I may as well remake them with big inners as well.

Is the larger cg13 box a straight swap with the small casing box? I have the cg13 mounts sat here!!

What would be my best option out of the following turbos?
Td04l from a scooby
T25/t3 ceramic compressor turbo from an r33
T25 from 200sx

I will be wiring the wastegate shut and using an external gate

What boost can I run with the stock headgasket, injectors and afm?

I will be going for nistune instead of megasquirt

Thanks
Kev

 

[karlj]

I don't think you'd be able to run much boost with stock injectors and as for the head gasket maybe 120/130 but that's a stab in the dark, your best bet would be to get on the phone to Ed at fusion to discus it cause he will probably know more than anyone

 

[Machi san]

100-120hp is more than enough if the standard afm and injectors will do it ok. If iam changine injectors and afm then I will set my goals higher lol

I have injectors from ca18det, rb25det, rb25de neo, sr20det and also got all the afms from the same engines also.

And got ca and sr throttle bodies and fuel rails

 

[Machi san]

Does ed do nistune?

I wonder if he can supply one with a base map so that I could drive to him for mapping?

Can he supply oil feed lines for td04 turbo?

Does he not mind people calling and asking silly questions?

Cheers

 

[karlj]

I think your best bet would be to modify the SR fuel rail to fit in place of the cg one and use the SR20det injectors I know noddie modded one for martinb so he'll be able to tell you more about it

 

[karlj]

Does ed do nistune?...... Yes

I wonder if he can supply one with a base map so that I could drive to him for mapping?...... I don't think he does

Can he supply oil feed lines for td04 turbo?..... Umm no idea best to ask

Does he not mind people calling and asking silly questions?...... He answered a few of mine when I was going to turbo my old super s that's how I found out about the sr20det injectors being a good option

Cheers..... That's ok :grinning:

sorry easiest way of answering

 

[Low Rider]

Firstly I think you need to agree on what route you intend to take. Initially you mention turbocharging, then later base NA mods and then throttlebodies later down the route if needed. This in itself will rule out Nistune, as you will need TPS load for throttlebodies to work, so a careful choice on your overall goal will be needed to avoid unnecessary issues later.

Power wise throttlebodies can make 125bhp with a sensible cam on a standard compression engine and head. However they are not cheap and will require the standard vacuum servo to be removed to make room for the inlet trumpets plus some form of standalone ECU and trigger wheel setup for crank position. Choice of conventional distributor or DIS ignition setup is up to you.

Some would argue that 100-120bhp is not really worth the additional hastles of a turbo setup. 100bhp is achievable with bolt on NA mods, (exhaust, intake mods etc), and a nistune. As stated above you can make 120bhp+ with throttlebodies or get closer to it with the usual bolt on modifications and an increase in compression & perhaps some headwork. This maybe preferred due to the brakes being able to remain as is......much your call really. Obviously more combining throttlebodies with good compression etc etc, the only downside it a lack of torque.

Typical power outputs of most basic turbo setups are around 140-160bhp to be honest, and neither the standard nor GA16DE injectors will have a safe enough headroom for that power. So this could somewhat dictate your route in that respect. As stated by Frank neither the 1.0 160mm clutch nor the larger 1.3 180mm clutches will be able to handle the increase in torque, even the uprated ones slip after time. You'll have to find a suitable alternative. I have seen people here use GA16DE setups or to re-machine a K11 flywheel to accept a larger 190mm uprated clutch to take the torque, either way it will need some thought & consideration. Driveshafts don't seem to really be a problem unless you are pushing for big power and torque.

If you're looking at larger injectors etc etc and faffing with ECU's it may prove to take a leaf out of Frank's book and opt for the later type CGA3DE inlet manifold, throttlebody and top feed fuel rail, as this will allow you a much greater variety of fuel injector choice, as the standard fuel rails limit the choice to 2 injectors which are not suitable and only leave the option to fabricate a custom fuel rail to use some larger side feed injectors.

I hope this lot doesn't confuse you but when it comes to power modifications, there are necessary considerations to be made depending on the route you chose. There's plenty of people opting for simple turbo setups this year, so there should be plenty of help available on various options.

Boost wise I would stick to 7psi on a stock motor and headgasket. People have gotten away with more in the past but I have not yet seen anyone boosting above that and having a reliable setup, something has always let go for one reason or another or the car has been broken up and sold off for parts. Also a very reputable contact in Japan advised against it many times due to blown gaskets and/or cracked piston rings......and given his wealth of experience with K11's running CG13DE(T), GA16DE(T), SR20DE(T) & SR20VE(T) conversions, I am enclined to take it as read.

 

[Machi san]

Hmmm beginning to wish id never got this car, its been a constant ball ache!

Well its already 98hp na and I have cams and higher comp pistons to fit.

However I need to get rid of the carbs because the car uses too much fuel and its not quick enough too justify the cost of running it imo.

Thanks for the answers ect ect

I can seriously see this project coming to an end now because I have gotten pretty bored with it

I defo can't be assed to muck about with clutches and gearboxes. If the cg13 box and clutch can't take it, then I may as well throw in the towel

 

[gtsnissanb]

Hmmm beginning to wish id never got this car, its been a constant ball ache!

Well its already 98hp na and I have cams and higher comp pistons to fit.

However I need to get rid of the carbs because the car uses too much fuel and its not quick enough too justify the cost of running it imo.

Thanks for the answers ect ect

I can seriously see this project coming to an end now because I have gotten pretty bored with it

I defo can't be assed to muck about with clutches and gearboxes. If the cg13 box and clutch can't take it, then I may as well throw in the towel

Dude just stick an sr20de+t in it, once it's in with a box attached its so much easier! By the sounds of it your more than capable of doing all the relevant mods to drop it in! Then the scope for tuning is huge!
Primera gt engine pulsar turbo, manifold job done bob a nistune in there and your laughing! I'd imagine The most expensive bit being the nistune as you'll pick up a primera for £200 tops!

 

[Machi san]

Sorry what I meant was throw the turbo towel in

Just gonna fit standard injection and ecu and hope for decent economy. It won't be any slower than it is now because it won't stall at every set of lights and it won't missfire round corners lol

I don't really understand what franks done with inlets though. I thought he was using ga16 stuff? Is he running cga13? What's so good about it?

Cheers dudes

 

[Machi san]

Sorry what I meant was throw the turbo towel in

Just gonna fit standard injection and ecu and hope for decent economy. It won't be any slower than it is now because it won't stall at every set of lights and it won't missfire round corners lol

I don't really understand what franks done with inlets though. I thought he was using ga16 stuff? Is he running cga13? What's so good about it?

Cheers dudes

 

[frank]

I don't really understand what franks done with inlets though. I thought he was using ga16 stuff? Is he running cga13? What's so good about it?

mine has a CGA inlet mani and fuelrail kev (better design imo) and QG injectors and throttlebody, and the top half of the CG t/b, which contains the maf.
the GA t/b was the same 50mm as the QG but the GA maf does,nt seem to suit the ecu after a few days of running (whereas my a/f/r,s and idle control have been behaving fine for weeks now with the CG maf mounted in the airbox)

 

[Machi san]

mine has a CGA inlet mani and fuelrail kev (better design imo) and QG injectors and throttlebody, and the top half of the CG t/b, which contains the maf.
the GA t/b was the same 50mm as the QG but the GA maf does,nt seem to suit the ecu after a few days of running (whereas my a/f/r,s and idle control have been behaving fine for weeks now with the CG maf mounted in the airbox)

Sweet thanks for the info frank

The rolling road guy who played with my carbs told me that I wouldn't lose anything (drivability not out and out power) by swapping to single throttle body injection. I think this is the way I will go..

Iam guessing that the QG parts are hard to come by at the mo. I haven't seen any QG stuff in any local breakers

Is it QG13de throttle body and injectors that you are using?
What management are you using?
Do you have any parts for sale that could help me get on my way? (Cga inlet? QG parts?)

Thanks mate
Kev

 

[Scott]

Sweet thanks for the info frank

The rolling road guy who played with my carbs told me that I wouldn't lose anything (drivability not out and out power) by swapping to single throttle body injection. I think this is the way I will go..

Iam guessing that the QG parts are hard to come by at the mo. I haven't seen any QG stuff in any local breakers

Is it QG13de throttle body and injectors that you are using?
What management are you using?
Do you have any parts for sale that could help me get on my way? (Cga inlet? QG parts?)

Thanks mate
Kev

QGs should be easy to find. The 1.5s always stretched their chains so end up in scrappys or on ebay getting broke. The QG18 was in the N16 Almera, P11-144 Primera, Almera Tino and possibly others.

There's loads on ebay if you get stuck

 

[frank]

Sweet thanks for the info frank

The rolling road guy who played with my carbs told me that I wouldn't lose anything (drivability not out and out power) by swapping to single throttle body injection. I think this is the way I will go..

Iam guessing that the QG parts are hard to come by at the mo. I haven't seen any QG stuff in any local breakers

Is it QG13de throttle body and injectors that you are using?
What management are you using?
Do you have any parts for sale that could help me get on my way? (Cga inlet? QG parts?)

Thanks mate
Kev

my 50mm QG t/b and red injectors were from almera,s kev (either 1.5 or 1.8) and i have a spare setup if you get stuck .
the cut-off part from the CG maf is 60mm bore, so i want to try an SR 60mm t/b next
and stock 1.0 ecu mate :grinning:

 

[Machi san]

Awesome, thanks for the info frank

And thanks scott for the heads up on where to look. The scrappy I use doesn't seem to get anything usefull anymore (although I didn't even look at p11 primeras lol) so iam going to a bigger more expensive one. Probably won't have to pay for the injectors and t/b though cose ill assemble it all together at the scrapyard lol



Frank, iam guessing because the ga and qg are both 50mm, there isn't much involved with making it the inlet manifold? Or did you need to weld on a new flange?

What iam mostly interested in, is how you mounted the cut off top part into the airbox!
Have you got pics of your cut away part?

The box of gubbins for the afm look like they are casted into the narrower part of the throttle body. I can machine it all away on my lathe ok but then it'll be an odd shape!



Sorry if my brain works in a weird way. I just need to keep it interested and building a hybrid injection system is very interesting and I would much rather play around with this sort of thing than turbo ect ect

I wanna have fun but not have something rediculously expensive to run lol