How much BHP

moleymolo

moleymolo

Just curious - seen/heard lots of turbo/supercharger conversions on micras but I want to know - How much BHP could you get from a N/A Micra K11 Engine?

I know that the rally car Matt drives is 120bhp ish but there is a twin cam mini (1360cc) which has a whopping 180bhp!)

Is there any way of getting a Micra that high without a turbo or a surpercharger?

This is for a 1.3 not a 1.0 engine.
 
search on you tube for march k11..... there is a 180bhp n/a micra on there driving around tsukuba and catching civic type R's and Scooby WRX's
 
moleymolo said:
Just curious - seen/heard lots of turbo/supercharger conversions on micras but I want to know - How much BHP could you get from a N/A Micra K11 Engine?

I know that the rally car Matt drives is 120bhp ish but there is a twin cam mini (1360cc) which has a whopping 180bhp!)

Is there any way of getting a Micra that high without a turbo or a surpercharger?

This is for a 1.3 not a 1.0 engine.
Click to expand...

first of all its down to your budget. in theory you could get just about any BHP from the 1.3 if you bore it out and get a custom crank and block, it depends on how far you want to go.

secondly its not all about BHP but more about torque, and the torque curve. if you get a high bhp at high revs it could still take you ages to get there if you don't have any low end or mid range power.

you will have more fun with a car that is quick off the line than one that just has alot of grunt.
 
also depends on driveablity are thinking of a car for day to day, you could have a N/A micra abit like mine, i know there is one like mine out there at around 155bhp but its hard to drive all your power is right at the top of the rev range and its gotta rev to 8k all day long.

So depends on what you want it for?
 
Thanks for the replies
Antony: You sure the K11 on youtube is a 1.3? or not and engine swap?
Nex and Paul: It's not going anywhere near the roads :)

Edit: I prefer a reving engine anyway as I;m used to 19,000 rpm 3 inches to my right hand side... :) (kart racing)
 
yep, its a CG13DE built by AP-Zest, forged internals, high compression head gasket, full racing cams, individual throttle bodies, full N1 spec racing exhaust, featherlight flywheel, full gas flowed and sonic tested cylinder head, knife edged crank, balanced pistons and rods etc etc.

its 180bhp at around 10,500rpm. its mental.
 
Antony said:
yep, its a CG13DE built by AP-Zest, forged internals, high compression head gasket, full racing cams, individual throttle bodies, full N1 spec racing exhaust, featherlight flywheel, full gas flowed and sonic tested cylinder head, knife edged crank, balanced pistons and rods etc etc.

its 180bhp at around 10,500rpm. its mental.
Click to expand...

i could do with one of them :D
 
moleymolo said:
Thanks for the replies
Antony: You sure the K11 on youtube is a 1.3? or not and engine swap?
Nex and Paul: It's not going anywhere near the roads :)

Edit: I prefer a reving engine anyway as I;m used to 19,000 rpm 3 inches to my right hand side... :) (kart racing)
Click to expand...

fair enough, if its not road legal then its alot easier to make it a quick car. but engine isn't everything, you would make it quicker by stripping it and replacing whats left with carbon fibre for a start.

don't forget that the weak point is the gearbox so what ever you build will need a strong box.

but yea the CG13 engine is a good little engine, but if you start pushing it its going to suffer, if you take it towards the 200bhp mark you may end up changing gaskets all the time or maybe even crack the block!
 
iirc standard internals on a CG13DE can handle 130bhp, as said iirc maybe able to handle 150bhp... you could make 120 ish bhp with a 4branch manifold, cams, exhaust, and uprated TB etc etc. you would be looking at uprating internals etc to reach over 130bhp NA. when you can get a turbo CG13 without major modifications upto a good 130bhp..and with internals etc you could get 150bhp and with more tune 200bhp...even more if you spend crazy ammounts as James T's turbo GA proves.... you could maybe run somewhere over 200bhp with it turbo. altough 250bhp is about the limit for a CG13 turbo with major work.
 
the standard crank can handle 200bhp turbo charged, but im sure well over 230bhp n/a, its due to the torque. rpm's wise the cg13de can rev as far as you want. lol
 
moleymolo said:
Thanks for the replies
Antony: You sure the K11 on youtube is a 1.3? or not and engine swap?
Nex and Paul: It's not going anywhere near the roads :)

Edit: I prefer a reving engine anyway as I;m used to 19,000 rpm 3 inches to my right hand side... :) (kart racing)
Click to expand...

Rotax engined karts by any chance?
Had a spin in a mate one before they are rediculous!!As in Fast
 
crazyep82 said:
Rotax engined karts by any chance?
Had a spin in a mate one before they are rediculous!!As in Fast
Click to expand...

Nope, Formula A (Can rev to basically 22,000 - but will blow up pretty quick), and KF1.

You should try a Formula A Kart if they're still running by you - they are mental!
 
Going back on-topic if I may...

NeX said:
fair enough, if its not road legal then its alot easier to make it a quick car. but engine isn't everything, you would make it quicker by stripping it and replacing whats left with carbon fibre for a start.

don't forget that the weak point is the gearbox so what ever you build will need a strong box.

but yea the CG13 engine is a good little engine, but if you start pushing it its going to suffer, if you take it towards the 200bhp mark you may end up changing gaskets all the time or maybe even crack the block!
Click to expand...

The only time it will see the road is when it's being towed...

I've had a look on AP-ZEST Website and they do a 1300cc engine - is that the same one in that guys March K11 or was it a one off to prove it could be done?
 
no, as far as i am aware ap-zest did all or most of the march cup cars, obviously nissan did some but the most where autoproduce zest, some where even aspect, who also do a 160bhp CG13DE......

shame, your about 4 days too late for my hyper revs catalogue with all the suppliers of this type of engine.
 
Antony said:
no, as far as i am aware ap-zest did all or most of the march cup cars, obviously nissan did some but the most where autoproduce zest, some where even aspect, who also do a 160bhp CG13DE......
Click to expand...

I thought it was a one make championship - like A1GP...

Antony said:
shame, your about 4 days too late for my hyper revs catalogue with all the suppliers of this type of engine.
Click to expand...
:shy:

Any chance you could let me know a few? I could go direct to AP-ZEST but can't get a user account to e-mail them...
 
easiest way of dealing with jap tuning houses i've found is to go through someone like Newera Parts - just e-mail them a discription and a link of what you want, they'll send back a quote, usually including shipping, and take it from there...

obviously more expensive then doing it yourself, but they have folk in japan who can talk to the suppliers direct and get you info etc - just a shame the pound has dived against the yen recently....
 
moleymolo said:
I thought it was a one make championship - like A1GP...

:shy:

Any chance you could let me know a few? I could go direct to AP-ZEST but can't get a user account to e-mail them...
Click to expand...


thats correct, it was a one make championship, but alowed different tuning companies, Nismo works, APzest, Aspect, S-factory etc etc. so basicaly they all had to conform to a specification, ie- wide arches, n/a engines, spoilers etc etc thats why they all look almost identical but you can tell which is which by the way the arches fit,

the aspect arches fit up to the front splitter (always a nismo one) and are cut to sit on top of it. the AP-zest ones are a semi-wrap around arch that has a flat bottom to them and the works nismo ones wrap completely around the front splitter and are slightly more angular on the edge.

its a black art knowing the differences. but they are there...:grinning:
 
Back again...

Havent realy though much about all this lately for one simple reason.... Money...

But, just a quick pointer - and I don't want to start an uproar or anything, just making a point...

E-mailed NewEra parts etc and were very helpful in finding/sourcing the 180bhp AP-Zest Motor from Japan. Gave me shipping quotes etc and a final cost.

The only thing is, when I asked if it's possible to get a little more info on the engine itself - mainly what actually came with it, such as clutch, TB's, ECU etc, the response was that I'd have to pay the deposit to for them to look into it further.
edit... I have just re-read the e-mail which states Flywheel/clutch are included but not ITB (which I'm guessing is throttle bodies

Rearranged post
Although it still seems a bit "off" paying a deposit to find some information which could be totally useless and pointless... I'd understand if they wanted a deposit to actually order the engine itself but not to find out some simple info - isn't that why they're there - so we don't spend money and get the wrong/inaccurate item?

Now, subject to finances, I'd be quite happy to pay the £5.5k quote if I knew what I was getting parts wise.

What do you think of this?
 
Arguably the best way to do it would be to deal with AP directly (if possible) then you will know exactly what you're getting and they might also be able to tell you how long it will last.

ITB's could cost you close to or over £1k here so be careful...
 
The engine will be run for a maxium of 2 minutes under racing load, with an extra 6 minutes of pre-heat and idling.

Going by XE's conversion the engine comes out at around £3800... (which is pretty damn cheap for an all singing motor!)

I have just e-mailed Matt H enquiring about parts/engines etc. so might go down that route and maybe get an AP-Zest motor at a later date - saves all the hassle at the moment, and also means I can go out with a good engine out of the box and have some fun in it.
 
squarepants said:
iirc standard internals on a CG13DE can handle 130bhp, as said iirc maybe able to handle 150bhp...
you could make 120 ish bhp with a 4branch manifold, cams, exhaust, and uprated TB etc etc. you would be looking at uprating internals etc to reach over 130bhp NA.
when you can get a turbo CG13 without major modifications upto a good 130bhp..and with internals etc you could get 150bhp
altough 250bhp is about the limit for a CG13 turbo with major work.
Click to expand...

Squarepants, do you have any proof of this information?
 
You already know the answer to that one pete ;) heh

As previously stated, there seems to be a lot of misinformation roaming the forums. Plenty of K11's have graced the dyno over the years with the usual bolt ons, (some may have some figures kicking about), mine in particular with cams and none have come close to 120bhp.

I doubt I will make 120bhp when I switch to throttlebodies running on a Omex in a month or for that matter.

As a fact, Matt's old spec'd rally car made 118bhp, (cannot account for the dyno accuracy admittedly), and this engine, (which is now up for sale), has quite an impressive spec.....nismo pistons, 11:1 compression, gas flowed head, one off billet cams, group A exhaust etc etc.....not simple bolt ons. So this should help to inject some factual information into the post.

Well all really need to start talking fact rather that fiction, it just leads people down a false path which only leads to dissapointment. I recommend consolidating technical information and making something useful out of it. Reasons like these are partly why this forum has gone seriously down hill over the years, because facts seem to get lost and instead fiction seems to have replaced it.
 
Stop assuming everything gets ignored!

Thats just another reason for the forum being full of crap, those that do know better don't post as they think they get ignored, this isn't neccessarily the case. TBH, i read pretty much every thread on this forum and don't post on that many of them, but what i read does sink in. With threads like this i tend to actually only read posts from people i believe know what they're talking about.

Just because someone does the opposite of what you say, doesn't mean that anyone else reading will do the same. We NEED the input from the more knowledgable on the forum.
 
Fair enough I guess, I haven't seen any more than posts being ignored! Thing is, i think it's more stubbornness than anything else, people being unwilling to change how they're going to do something (usually to save money?), and that's how the arguements start when real help is offered.

I guess when it comes to the time, I'll be PMing people rather than posting a thread and keep my fingers crossed for some useful help.
 

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