Help me solve my idle issues

Daniel_

Daniel_

Hi everbody!
I'm Daniel from Finland, and i drive a Micra K11 1.0L CG10DE pre-coilpack -1999 with NATS. Recently, it has given me quite the headache.

It all started when i accidentally flooded the engine two weeks ago by accidentally depressing the accelerator when starting. After solving the flooding issue, (by pulling the fuse and running it dry), It has developed an extremely difficult idle problem.

Basically, the car jerks under acceleration, and the engine light is flashing when this happens. Also, the idle sounds a bit off, jumps up and down, and it wants to stall (but doesn't!)

Things that I have tried changing:
-Sparkplugs
-Distributor cap
-Rotor
-Distributor (Brand new from japan! 170£ ouch :S)
-Resoldered the throttlebody according to the well known guide.
EDIT, also tested:
-Cleaning the MAF with CRC MAF-cleaner
-Cleaned the Idle Air Control unit with carb cleaner
-Checked the fuses for corrosion
-Replaced the O2-sensor with known working
-Injector Cleaner
-Replaced the MAF; TPS and IAC
-Changed the fuel filter
-Changed the fuelpump (Expensive as &%/)
-Drained the tank (to purge water), no change
-No check engine codes are stored

None of the above has been any help, and the car still gives me trouble. What should I check/replace next?

Thanks!
/Daniel
 
Buy a can of carburator cleaner,

Clean your maf sensor with it and your Idle Control Valve,

Hopefully your issues will dissapear!
 
MrMigs08 said:
Buy a can of carburator cleaner,

Clean your maf sensor with it and your Idle Control Valve,

Hopefully your issues will dissapear!
Click to expand...

Okay, so i tried cleaning the MAF with CRC MAF-cleaner, and took out the idle control valve (6-pin?), and gave it a good cleaning with carb-cleaner.

No improvement whatsoever...

Should I get a second hand intake with all the sensors? Or is it something else I should check? I also checked all the fuses, and no rust was found there (tip according to search)
 
Hmm, No dont buy things until we know what the problem is,

I'd start pulling a sensor plug at a time and driving the car to see if the car reacts differently, unless your having fuel pump/injector issues, there are quite a few things that could make a car run very dodgey!

Ive had it before but my issues were involved with MAF and the ICV,

Hmm i cant help you so much! but soon members will arrive to help you out with the problem (With more experience then me! :p )
 
Thanks for the replies guys, I will try to disconnect and measure some sensors later today. I just need to change the valve cover gasket, since the old one started leaking alot after me changing the distributor.

Is the TPS(Throttle Position Sensor) the same as the SR20DE? 0.5V no throttle, and 5V full throttle?

Will report back tonight!
 
Daniel_ said:
Is the TPS(Throttle Position Sensor) the same as the SR20DE? 0.5V no throttle, and 5V full throttle?
Click to expand...
yes, and here,s autodata maf settings

PB160350.JPG
 
Status update!
First, the idle issues are not so common anymore, but the flashing check engine light, "kangarooing", misfires, every problem under load is still there.

I first tried to disconnect the MAF, and that made things even worse. Car would stall at idle, the misfires/powerloss happened almost every second, and the car was slmost impossible to drive!

Time to inspect the MAF:
I measured the resistance, OK!
I then measured the voltage at ignition on, 0.468V OK!
I then measured the voltage at idle, 1.286V OK!
When revving, the sensor seemed ok(1.2V-3V), BUT, I am still suspecting the MAF! The voltage meter isn't quick enough to detect the voltage drops, and they almost never happen at idle. I would have to measure the voltage when driving to be absolutely sure that the MAF is functioning.

Should I just get a new TB with MAF, TPS and IAC? :)
 
Hmm its possible it is the Maf unit but I'm not certain it is, I reckon it could be fueling could a lamb a cause this to happen frank, I'd take some readings for the fuel pump, I've had a car with a failing pump or inertia switch issues but it was pulsating fuel the good thing is it still provided the rail with enough fuel to use the car fine but I'm guessing it could be even worse I'm not sure I just spit out ideas lol :p

Try injector cleaner that goes in with your fuel time, it did help my old Micra when it was stuttering under load, youl nail it soon I'm sure.
 
Was thinking could it just be that lambda, I think I might take it first out of its place and just check how it looks like. Because of the overfueling lambda might be quite black I think. Well, this is just what I thought (don´t really know much about these things, but worth to try maybe). I´ve read somewhere that there´s a chance to warm up lambda with propane torch...it should kinda refresh it (haven´t tested it tho). I´ll drop here few links about lambdas. Good luck! :)

http://www.lambdapower.co.uk/diagnosis/diagnostic_index.asp

http://www.picoauto.com/tutorials/emissions-components-actuators.html

http://www.hessumobiili.fi/tiedostot/Happianturi(lambda).pdf
 
an a/f/r gauge is very useful for diagnosing japi, here,s mine closed looping at cruise, the off the scale rich during acceleration, then off the scale lean on lift
 
surely if you disconnect the MAF the car should go into limphome mode .... my coil pack does..... if the problem gets worse then can it be the MAF???
 
I suppose it depends on year sterry, im pretty sure a car can use the remaining sensors to predict the information needed for some form of running of an engine, so maf shouldnt make it limp mode up, but change the way it runs.
 
frank said:
an a/f/r gauge is very useful for diagnosing japi, here,s mine closed looping at cruise, the off the scale rich during acceleration, then off the scale lean on lift
Click to expand...



that would be nice gauge to have. I can test emissions at work but it´s not the same without any load. In summertime I´ve played with RE85-fuel and FPR so mixture ratio while driving would be nice to know. I think now the "shirt" is drinking alot, don´t know if it learned to do so in summer (RE85´s consumption was 2 litre above petrol´s before).
I hear alot of stories at work, lol :). One fellow told me that he made some mods to his car and it didn´t play well. He took off battery for a night and next day ecu learned to play with new mods. Does Micra´s ecu have this kind of nature?
 
The difference is probably in that the primitive obd1 system on the pre-coilpack k11,s wont run without a maf signal eh :)
 
Japi said:
that would be nice gauge to have. I can test emissions at work but it´s not the same without any load. In summertime I´ve played with RE85-fuel and FPR so mixture ratio while driving would be nice to know. I think now the "shirt" is drinking alot, don´t know if it learned to do so in summer (RE85´s consumption was 2 litre above petrol´s before).
I hear alot of stories at work, lol :). One fellow told me that he made some mods to his car and it didn´t play well. He took off battery for a night and next day ecu learned to play with new mods. Does Micra´s ecu have this kind of nature?
Click to expand...
I think that only the longterm fueltrim is reset japi
 
Japi said:
that would be nice gauge to have. I can test emissions at work but it´s not the same without any load. In summertime I´ve played with RE85-fuel and FPR so mixture ratio while driving would be nice to know. I think now the "shirt" is drinking alot, don´t know if it learned to do so in summer (RE85´s consumption was 2 litre above petrol´s before).
I hear alot of stories at work, lol :). One fellow told me that he made some mods to his car and it didn´t play well. He took off battery for a night and next day ecu learned to play with new mods. Does Micra´s ecu have this kind of nature?
Click to expand...

I bought my narrowband afr gauge from biltema, was only about 20eur and works perfectly. Changeable backlight color by button too, is that super cool or what? ;)
Does not give big amounts of info, but tells you basic things.
 
Daniel_ said:
Status update!
First, the idle issues are not so common anymore, but the flashing check engine light, "kangarooing", misfires, every problem under load is still there.

I first tried to disconnect the MAF, and that made things even worse. Car would stall at idle, the misfires/powerloss happened almost every second, and the car was slmost impossible to drive!

Time to inspect the MAF:
I measured the resistance, OK!
I then measured the voltage at ignition on, 0.468V OK!
I then measured the voltage at idle, 1.286V OK!
When revving, the sensor seemed ok(1.2V-3V), BUT, I am still suspecting the MAF! The voltage meter isn't quick enough to detect the voltage drops, and they almost never happen at idle. I would have to measure the voltage when driving to be absolutely sure that the MAF is functioning.

Should I just get a new TB with MAF, TPS and IAC? :)
Click to expand...


You could try to disconnect the battery, overnight or something like that.

Or did you already try that?
 
Update!

Put some Injector cleaner in it, and filled it up with a full tank of 98 E5. Don't really think this is gonna help much..
img9614m.jpg

Then, I set out to test the O2-sensor. Getting it out was a battle! I succeded, and put in a known working sensor from a Sunny.
img9616a.jpg

Here are the sensors. The Micra is on the left (200k km), and the Sunny is on the right (260k km)
img9618l.jpg

I also tried running with the O2-unplugged. No difference
So know we know the O2 is good, what next? Oh, and the battery was disconnected last week overnight!

EDIT:
Going to order an OBD2 bluetooth adapter, you guys think I'm fine with this cheap Hong-Kong one?
$T2eC16dHJHEE9ny2srK!BQJcgte2oQ~~60_12.JPG

It was only like 14$, so If it doesn't work, it won't be a big deal.

Also going to borrow an oscilloscope from my dad and do some extensive testing on the MAF on monday. Keeping you posted!
 
Daniel_ said:
Status update!
First, the idle issues are not so common anymore, but the flashing check engine light, "kangarooing", misfires, every problem under load is still there.

I first tried to disconnect the MAF, and that made things even worse. Car would stall at idle, the misfires/powerloss happened almost every second, and the car was slmost impossible to drive!

Time to inspect the MAF:
I measured the resistance, OK!
I then measured the voltage at ignition on, 0.468V OK!
I then measured the voltage at idle, 1.286V OK!
When revving, the sensor seemed ok(1.2V-3V), BUT, I am still suspecting the MAF! The voltage meter isn't quick enough to detect the voltage drops, and they almost never happen at idle. I would have to measure the voltage when driving to be absolutely sure that the MAF is functioning.

Should I just get a new TB with MAF, TPS and IAC? :)
Click to expand...


Would be easiest to swap a known working one tb/maf pack to your car and test if it helps with the issues.

If not, then the problems are somewhere else.

Where are you from? i could even borrow one if needed.
 
Unfortunately, I'm from Vaasa, so I'm not very near you...

I am on the lookout for a TB/MAF, but no luck finding a free so far. My grandfather has a 1.3L, but that has a bosch MAF, so it's not compatible..
I hope to find a cheap MAF, so I'm gonna take contact with some scrappies this week.

Still going to take the oscilloscope route tomorrow, then I'll know for sure it's the MAF :)
 
Okay,

I got my hands on a throttlebody, complete with MAF, TPS and IAC. Installed it a few minutes ago.

No change!

Dang, what should I test next?
 
Oh bummer! Hmm next you could try swap the ecu. All wire connections ok also?I would check them again and use crc/wd40.

Sounds really mystical problem....
 
fuel pressure problem maybe daniel ? you could try wetting the air filter with fuel and drive off before it dries out
 
You can´t really tell from that squirt , that the pressure is enough.

You´ll have to measure it with a specific meter in idle/revs.
 
it still sounds like a mad lean-out to me, mine would do it if i pulled the pump fuse while driving, and my blue car did it occasionally at one time, and i soldered the t/b and it seemed to cure it but it came back, and when i waggled the maf plug it would come and go.
wetting the air filter is still worth a try, even to rule out a fuel problem
 
you changed quite a bit now, im thinking there is some harness damage somewhere, maybe a backed out pin at one of the connectors? worth spending some time checking visibly checking the harness out for splits, shorts and backed out pins.
 
Took a break from it now, and yes, I started looking for split things. Found a split hose from the charcoal canister that i fixed, but that had no affect on the idle/performance.
My OBD2-meter will be here in two weeks, but I'm not sure if I can stand driving it for that long. It really feels like I'm gonna cause some damage to the engine soon. Calling a garage tomorrow.. This one is going over my head.. The CG10DE is more complicated than my SR20DE :/
 
since it all started from an over fuel issue, have you checked the cat, broken up cat gives these symptoms. also does yous have a rear oxy sensor(post cat) the rear sensor always goes first on nissans
 
My 2 cents worth,
Take injectors out and clean the little filters around the base, sounds like an injector issue to me. Pulling fuses out to cure flooding problems is never a good idea!! Fuel rails can trap rust and dirt, normally this doesnt cause too many problems (except if its an opel, they are famous for porus rails) but if you run the rail dry and then shoot in fresh petrol under pressure again then you run the risk of dislodging some of the crap than accumulate. I am probably wrong but you seem to have tried everything else so id say give it a go
 
Update!

My mechanic said they are going to replace the fuel pump. He ran out of time so it'll be done tomorrow. Don't know how he figured that would be the problem, but we'll see if it's fixed tomorrow.
 
Update! STILL NOT SOLVED

I picked it up, and the bloke said that the fuel pump was not showing the right resistance. He then figured it was the fault. He swapped it, took it for a short drive, and said it was fixed.

It obviously was not. The second I flipped the key, it instantly changed for the worse. Pissy idle, near stalling, kangarooing, check engine flashing.

170£ poorer, and still not solved. Not really wanting to take it back there now, it doesn't seem like they know how to troubleshoot..

Bonus: My exhaust broke off. On my way home, the backbox separated from the pipe, so now I'm gonna have to get it welded before I do anything else. This will happen on friday, but until then, any Ideas?
 

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