Does anyone know a K11 Micra Guru

H

HelpNeeded

Hello there. I have had trusty and loyal service from my 1999 1.3 Micra for many years now.

About 3 months ago I noticed it occasionally cut out when coming to stop or idling. It work fine most of the time so I was not too concerned. The problem then became more noticable as I started to experience shuddering or juddering and obvious loss of power when trying to accelerate. This would not happen on every journey sometimes, not for a couple of weeks.

Last week after starting it and driving off the problem ocurred again, worse than before. I was unable to keep the revs up whilst trying to drive it back, with it eventually stalling at a junction just after the red light came on. Unable to restart it, I called the AA who towed me home. Next day it started and ran ok but I tried it again later that day and the juddering started again and it would nt start. The local garage have been unable to do any diagnostic testing as it predates their equipment.

I am now at a stage where I am unable to dare drive it and feel totally lost on how to resolve the problem. Does anyone know of a Micra expert, who has experience with this type of thing and would be able to come out to help find and resolve the problem.

I am in Hornchurch Essex. Thank you so much for any consideration and help you can offer.

Steve
 
I don't profess to know anything about K11's but the symptoms you describe lead me to think that you have a throttle body problem, possibly due to the throttle position sensor?
 
John_D said:
I don't profess to know anything about K11's but the symptoms you describe lead me to think that you have a throttle body problem, possibly due to the throttle position sensor?
Click to expand...
Thanks for your suggestion John. When it broke down again the other day with the same problem the AA man who came out said their reference material on K11's suggest that they can suffer from 'dry joints in the throttle body'. The thing is that the local garage has told me they will fit a replacement throt bod if I ask them to and if I can source one, but they are unable to say if this is likely to be the cause or not. So it seems like a shot in the dark. As a non mechanic myself I at a loss to know what to do as I realise I could splash out a lot on maybes. The car is not reliable enough to drive like this, the AA have had to recover me twice now. This is why I am looking for any guidance from an experienced head who may be able find the right solution.
 
HelpNeeded said:
Thanks for your suggestion John. When it broke down again the other day with the same problem the AA man who came out said their reference material on K11's suggest that they can suffer from 'dry joints in the throttle body'. The thing is that the local garage has told me they will fit a replacement throt bod if I ask them to and if I can source one, but they are unable to say if this is likely to be the cause or not. So it seems like a shot in the dark. As a non mechanic myself I at a loss to know what to do as I realise I could splash out a lot on maybes. The car is not reliable enough to drive like this, the AA have had to recover me twice now. This is why I am looking for any guidance from an experienced head who may be able find the right solution.
Click to expand...
I had similar problems with my current Saab, I stripped and cleaned the throttle body several times, which gave short lived improvements. I finally bit the bullet and fitted a new throttle body, never had a problem since.... (it's a LOT easier to change the throttle body on a K11 Micra than it is on a Saab 9-3!)....
This is the throttle body on the K11 Micra...
K11 Throttle body 1.jpg

The throttle position switch (item 5) is a replaceable part... Pt No 1626041B10, available on eBay very cheaply see HERE.
 
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Take it to another (less posh) garage

It's quite a well known issue on K11's and most people who have had a problem like that one take it to a garage and they suggest that is the issue and know how to do it the same day in-house. Even when I've taken mine in for an MOT I usually ask how much more life they think i'll get out of it and they usually suggest that the dry solder being the only problem that k11's really have and that they can fix it cheaply if it does go. Most garages will have fixed hundreds of them these last 5 years.

You can also do it yourself, there are youtube guides. You need a razor, sealant, soldering iron, flux and patience... but it is a faff
 
Thank you all for your comments, very much appreciated.

Just to give you a bit more background on the history of the problem or problems. I know I am repeating some stuff but I thought I would lay it all out again. It might be good therapy for me! Therefore apologies for some repetition.

It started out about 3 months ago as the occasional cut out when I was slowing down. I did nt think too much about it at the time, just that it might not be too clever if this should happened say when I was in the outside lane of a motorway. After a few more days and a few more journeys things progressed to experiencing random judder and shakes on occasion when trying to accelerate, which was far more intrusive. I took it to my local garage (not posh) who do the MOT and service. I mentioned that online there is a lot of talk about the throttle body being the possible cause of this type of problem: - not that I am at all personally qualified to comment. They had a look at it, it ran ok whilst they were doing this, blew some compressed air into the MAF to clean it and said it seemed ok and that if problems did nt happen too often I should just put up with it.

For the next two weeks I drove it, with anxiety, but it worked ok except for one journey when it juddered and shook so much that I had to stop. I left it for a few minutes, restarted it, and it cleared itself after a few minutes and I was able to drive home ok. It worked ok for the next week. Then the following week after coming out of a local Sainsbury's car park the juddering and shaking started but this time much worse than before. It was really difficult to drive, I could nt get enough power to get out of 2nd gear or maybe 3rd. I limped along for about 3/4 of a mile before it stalled at a junction, with the red light coming on just before it cut out. It wouldn't restart so I pushed it to one side with the help of a very kind passing driver and called the AA. The AA arrived, were unable to restart it so towed me to my local garage where I left it overnight.

The next day I went around to the garage. They said they had managed to start in the morning but when I arrived they tried it again and it would n't run except to the really bad judder ( as if was only firing on one). The garage advised me that to start changing parts without being able to run diagnostics would just be a waste of money (1999 model predates there 16 pin test equipment) . They said that what I really needed was to find a mobile Micra expert who would be able to come out and identify the problem from experience.

The next day the Garage were able to start the car and just about get it back to my home.

I have nt been able to find any Micra experts but I do know of a local engineer called John, who has worked for many years rebuilding engines. He is about 3 miles away. I tried to drive it to him. It started fine, off I went but after 1/2 mile it started juddering badly again before cutting out and would not restart...... Here we go again, I called the AA out who thankfully towed me onto his garage.

This remains the current position. The car will start and run for a few minutes before the juddering starts and then cuts out. It's not drivable. John has had a look and seems to think that the distributor might not be working properly. It doesn't seem that is possible to get any diagnostic codes up on my model which might help. I would appreciate your views on whether you think a faulty distributor could cause this type of problem.

Wouldn't it be great if you could try a number parts to see which one worked without the expense. I would also appreciate your advise on any parts/ suppliers that you recommend, preferable not overseas.

Thank you taking the time to read this again. Any more comments are much appreciated.
 
HelpNeeded said:
Thank you all for your comments, very much appreciated.

Just to give you a bit more background on the history of the problem or problems. I know I am repeating some stuff but I thought I would lay it all out again. It might be good therapy for me! Therefore apologies for some repetition.

It started out about 3 months ago as the occasional cut out when I was slowing down. I did nt think too much about it at the time, just that it might not be too clever if this should happened say when I was in the outside lane of a motorway. After a few more days and a few more journeys things progressed to experiencing random judder and shakes on occasion when trying to accelerate, which was far more intrusive. I took it to my local garage (not posh) who do the MOT and service. I mentioned that online there is a lot of talk about the throttle body being the possible cause of this type of problem: - not that I am at all personally qualified to comment. They had a look at it, it ran ok whilst they were doing this, blew some compressed air into the MAF to clean it and said it seemed ok and that if problems did nt happen too often I should just put up with it.

For the next two weeks I drove it, with anxiety, but it worked ok except for one journey when it juddered and shook so much that I had to stop. I left it for a few minutes, restarted it, and it cleared itself after a few minutes and I was able to drive home ok. It worked ok for the next week. Then the following week after coming out of a local Sainsbury's car park the juddering and shaking started but this time much worse than before. It was really difficult to drive, I could nt get enough power to get out of 2nd gear or maybe 3rd. I limped along for about 3/4 of a mile before it stalled at a junction, with the red light coming on just before it cut out. It wouldn't restart so I pushed it to one side with the help of a very kind passing driver and called the AA. The AA arrived, were unable to restart it so towed me to my local garage where I left it overnight.

The next day I went around to the garage. They said they had managed to start in the morning but when I arrived they tried it again and it would n't run except to the really bad judder ( as if was only firing on one). The garage advised me that to start changing parts without being able to run diagnostics would just be a waste of money (1999 model predates there 16 pin test equipment) . They said that what I really needed was to find a mobile Micra expert who would be able to come out and identify the problem from experience.

The next day the Garage were able to start the car and just about get it back to my home.

I have nt been able to find any Micra experts but I do know of a local engineer called John, who has worked for many years rebuilding engines. He is about 3 miles away. I tried to drive it to him. It started fine, off I went but after 1/2 mile it started juddering badly again before cutting out and would not restart...... Here we go again, I called the AA out who thankfully towed me onto his garage.

This remains the current position. The car will start and run for a few minutes before the juddering starts and then cuts out. It's not drivable. John has had a look and seems to think that the distributor might not be working properly. It doesn't seem that is possible to get any diagnostic codes up on my model which might help. I would appreciate your views on whether you think a faulty distributor could cause this type of problem.

Wouldn't it be great if you could try a number parts to see which one worked without the expense. I would also appreciate your advise on any parts/ suppliers that you recommend, preferable not overseas.

Thank you taking the time to read this again. Any more comments are much appreciated.
Click to expand...
Discount the MAF and see if it runs Better
Another one I do is a basic spark check with a spare plug, (may want to unplug the fuel pump to stop it starting up, )
Disconnect the lambda sensor see if it runs Better
Alot can be disconnect and see if it's better or worse


Sent from my moto g(6) using Micra Sports Club mobile app
 
Also worth a look at the disrabuter car , the contacts can corrode and as the rotor arm,
That happend one of mine it ran great then acted up, ran great then slowly got worse with poor starting, cutting out, misfire ect , to the point it wouldn't run,
The rotor arm and cap were burn/corroded

Sent from my moto g(6) using Micra Sports Club mobile app
 
Sounds exactly like a case of 'dry solder in throttle body'. It only takes a few mins to check and repair, and you don't need to remove the throttle body itself. Remove the air filter body and air inlet pipe to get access to the throttle body. Remove the sealant on the panel cover with a sharp blade and carefully lift it off to expose the circuit board beneath (you don't need to remove the throttle positioning sensor, although it does improve access a little). Examine the 3 large soldered joints - any cracks or breaks in the solder can be re-soldered. Visually check the small joints on the circuit board, and re-solder if necessary. Clean up any debris and reassemble. Job done !
 
Micra Biker said:
Sounds exactly like a case of 'dry solder in throttle body'. It only takes a few mins to check and repair, and you don't need to remove the throttle body itself. Remove the air filter body and air inlet pipe to get access to the throttle body. Remove the sealant on the panel cover with a sharp blade and carefully lift it off to expose the circuit board beneath (you don't need to remove the throttle positioning sensor, although it does improve access a little). Examine the 3 large soldered joints - any cracks or breaks in the solder can be re-soldered. Visually check the small joints on the circuit board, and re-solder if necessary. Clean up any debris and reassemble. Job done !
Click to expand...


Thank you for your comments Micra BIker, the instructions and the video you attached. Most helpful. (As well as the like by Nissan Boy).

The last time I did any semi serious tinkering under the bonnet was on a mk2 escort over 30 years ago! Things have changed a bit since then, even on my 20 year old Micra.

Now John, the guy who was having a look at the car for me has found that from cold the car would start and run normally for a few minutes. Then as it started failing he discovered that a couple of the leads from the distributor had stopped sparking. The car would then not restart. This pattern when starting from cold repeats, hence him deducing that there must something wrong with the distributor. i.e works ok when cold then fails.

Again with the caveat of my lack of knowledge, would a failure in the throttle body as you are suggesting (that seems to be a common problem) result in the leads not sparking? Isn't that a bit like the old carburetor area. Could that cause that outcome? I don't think it would on a mk2 escort ?. It may well do on my micra for all I know.

Please let me know what you think.

Thank you kindly.

Steve
 
HelpNeeded said:
Again with the caveat of my lack of knowledge, would a failure in the throttle body as you are suggesting (that seems to be a common problem) result in the leads not sparking? Isn't that a bit like the old carburetor area. Could that cause that outcome? I don't think it would on a mk2 escort ?. It may well do on my micra for all I know.
Click to expand...

Does it occur on the same leads every time? If so it could be the leads themselves, the spark plugs or maybe contacts in the dissy cap?
If it changes then as you say probably distributor and coil related, if you could find someone on here nearby with a spare you could quickly swap it over see if there's a difference and go from there.

There is the idle air control circuit on these but that wouldn't effect spark, but could effect running when warm.
 
........' would a failure in the throttle body as you are suggesting (that seems to be a common problem) result in the leads not sparking? Isn't that a bit like the old carburetor area. Could that cause that outcome?'


Yes - as the engine warms up, so does the throttle body (radiator water heats it via small hoses). Any cracks in the soldered joints will expand and cause the ignition problems you are finding.
 
Thanks Fuzzy-hair-man and Micra biker for your replies. Much appreciated.

Yes Fuzzy it would be great if I could borrow a spare dizzy just to try rather than splash out £100 odd on a new one if I had the chance. It would be great if someone on here could help?

In light of this - Micra Biker / Fuzzy - just wanted to check again if that idle control circuit/throttle body solder problem thing could cause a lack of spark on the dizzy leads that I am getting as your advice varies.

Thanks again for your advice, time and patience.?
 
HelpNeeded said:
Yes Fuzzy it would be great if I could borrow a spare dizzy just to try rather than splash out £100 odd on a new one if I had the chance. It would be great if someone on here could help?
Click to expand...
Yeah, I'm afraid I'm not much help here as I'm in Australia, assuming you are in the UK somewhere.

HelpNeeded said:
In light of this - Micra Biker / Fuzzy - just wanted to check again if that idle control circuit/throttle body solder problem thing could cause a lack of spark on the dizzy leads that I am getting as your advice varies.
Click to expand...
I can't see how it could effect spark getting to the plugs, (been wrong before though) I'd do the simple things first and swap / replace leads and spark plugs then have a look at the dizzy cap and rotor.
If you need to remove the dizzy mark it's position and or time it with a timing light afterwards.
If it persists check the spark, then move on to iacv and throttle body, TBs are a common fault.
 
fuzzy-hair-man said:
Yeah, I'm afraid I'm not much help here as I'm in Australia, assuming you are in the UK somewhere.


I can't see how it could effect spark getting to the plugs, (been wrong before though) I'd do the simple things first and swap / replace leads and spark plugs then have a look at the dizzy cap and rotor.
If you need to remove the dizzy mark it's position and or time it with a timing light afterwards.
If it persists check the spark, then move on to iacv and throttle body, TBs are a common fault.
Click to expand...
Bit of a expensive way
Spark plugs yes if old ect ,
But generally is when the car starts to miss behave is to start disconnecting the MAF , lambda , and such , a injector, take the dizzy cap off and clean, even disconnect a ht 1 at a time and see if it runs any better ,
The car will go into a base mode and if it's a sensor at fault it run happy tho at 75% power and revs ,
Throwing parts at it without actual knowledge of the problem isn't a good idea , without doing the basics ruling out.

Also if MAF ect wont affect the spark, but can have weird affects on the engine
As said mine only started if I hit the limiter the. Would should like a Bridgeport rotary idle ok then bad , wouldn't accelerate unless I had quater throttle and borke at full or hickup
My mates was maf ran different , it idled all over the place and topped out at 60mph and 25mpg
That was a simple solder job as shown in the video posted

But do that and you should find your problem

Sent from my moto g(6) using Micra Sports Club mobile app
 
Sensor problems are very hard to diagnose because the ECU compensates to keep the engine running

In an ideal world there would be a test circuit for every sensor to verify that it's reading between acceptable ranges


I'd go with resoldering as the first thing you do, it's pretty much free as long as you have the equipment and it's not expensive to have done at a garage as long as they've done it a handful of times already and aren't figuring it out from scratch - even so, show them the video as a guide. Dry solder is going to cause intermittent faults, once you take the uncertainty out of it it should be easier to diagnose a sensor
 
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Hello again Micra K11 people (MicraBriker, Fuzzy, MattIna, NissanBoy, Frank and all the others. Thank you again for your interest.

I have a couple of other questions to ask.

Now this may sound impossible so forgive my ignorance. John the man who is trying to helping me with this. I.e. The car is at his garage.

I showed him the re- solder video. He had a quick look at the throttle body and said mine is a multi point injector. He then suggested that the resolder video is for a single- point injector models and not my one.

Can you let us know your views on this please as I am again none the wiser. Is that resolder video on a single point injectors model?? When or did K11s change to a single point injector model? My K11 is a 1.3 registered in June 1999. Can that that resolder be done on my multi-point.

Also I have been trying to source a distributor but am relunctant to buy one of the Chiness replicas. I bought the previous Chinese made one of that type from a company in Germany (ATP) and it seems to have lasted less than a year. I would like an original if poss/ second hand. Tried some local scrap yards but no luck. Do you have any advise on where/how I should go about trying to get one?

As usual, many thanks for your wisdom.





















from chinese co
 
My car was also made in 1999 but is a 1.0 - I'm not sure which mine has or if it is relevant so I can't help with that

I have replaced once with a nissan distributor from a scrapyard that lasted for 15,000 miles or so (5 years), and once with a brand new distributor from a non-OEM manufacturer that has lasted 8 months so far but I haven't done more than 1000 miles yet. The brand I got was Mikayo. No problems so far with it, but I noticed the cap and rotor were different to the official nissan one, so I'm not sure how I will replace the rotor when the time comes. It was around £130


edit: having checked wikipedia it seems that all of the nissan CG10DE/CG13DE/CGA3DE engines were made with multipoint fuel injectors from 1992-2002 and infact the E in DE stands for multipoint fuel injection.
 
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HelpNeeded said:
Hello again Micra K11 people (MicraBriker, Fuzzy, MattIna, NissanBoy, Frank and all the others. Thank you again for your interest.

I have a couple of other questions to ask.

Now this may sound impossible so forgive my ignorance. John the man who is trying to helping me with this. I.e. The car is at his garage.

I showed him the re- solder video. He had a quick look at the throttle body and said mine is a multi point injector. He then suggested that the resolder video is for a single- point injector models and not my one.

Can you let us know your views on this please as I am again none the wiser. Is that resolder video on a single point injectors model?? When or did K11s change to a single point injector model? My K11 is a 1.3 registered in June 1999. Can that that resolder be done on my multi-point.

Also I have been trying to source a distributor but am relunctant to buy one of the Chiness replicas. I bought the previous Chinese made one of that type from a company in Germany (ATP) and it seems to have lasted less than a year. I would like an original if poss/ second hand. Tried some local scrap yards but no luck. Do you have any advise on where/how I should go about trying to get one?

As usual, many thanks for your wisdom.





















from chinese co
Click to expand...
92 to 2000 dizzy are all the same , 1.3/1.0 same
Have you had the dizzy cap off, first basics maintenance on them , or replace the cap and rotor before replacing the unit ,


Sent from my moto g(6) using Micra Sports Club mobile app
 
Thank you MattInARedMicra. I would take anything like 15k miles from a dizzy right now The current replica replacement that I bought a year ago has given me about 3k, (should that be the cause of the problem). Also thank you for the research info on the mulltipoint injector engine. I had a look online but I was nt too sure what I was looking at!

Thanks Nissan Boy for the dizzy cap video. We have had the cap off had a check of that and it looks ago. The prob on mine is that it will start and run for a few minutes, then after a bit it will start to lose the spark from the dizzy.
 
Hello Steve,

I've been following your thread with some interest, and feel your pain as I was in a similar position with my 1.4. I notice you don't seem to be any closer to resolving yours, and may be in a position to potentially assist. I have both a known working distributor from a 2000 facelift 1.0 (with new cap about 4k ago) and a complete throttle body with working maf et al (all taken straight off a sweet running car that had turned to swiss cheese) that you can have for free. I removed them over this winter, taken off for spares and now they're just gathering dust. The only problem is I live in Spain. If you want them just arrange for collection and I'll box them up. To give you an idea I sent a similar weight box (but 1m long) for about £35 in the past with dhl, alternatively I'll be in the Uk 6th March and could post it then.

Apologies if my offer breaks the forum buy or sell rules.

Regards,

Mr F
 
Hi all. Not been on here for a few years, some may remember my Micra.
Just been reading this thread and I have a distributor here somewhere in my shed, been in there a couple of years so don't know how good it is! but you can have it for the postage if you want to try it.
Out of interest mine had a similar fault to what's on this thread, just disconnected the MAF and left it off, she coughed and spluttered for a while and then ran fine with no more problems.

Micra 1.jpg
 
frank said:
there is a diagnostic test on the earlier 14 pin obd1 steve, best to try that first

FLASH CODES - Cisco's Micra Files

www.micra.com.au www.micra.com.au
Click to expand...
Hi ya Frank. Nice to see you're still going strong buddy ....best thread ever still I see.
Did you ever get that medal I suggested (?)
Still driving my Suzuki wagonR ....love it and will never change it, brilliant machine on a par with the mighty Micra.
Hope you are well and living it up a bit....lol
 

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