cylinder head prob

A

asdame

Ex. Club Member
hey

Im currently restoring my 1998 micra 1.3 SLX 91k miles and since i got it last year it sometimes misfires in cylinder 4 and exhaust smokes little more whiter than usual only once it warms ups.

i suspected it could've been a leakin gasket so tday i've just taken off the head and found several cavitations in the head which really worries the pants outa me. (and my wallet)

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the side of the gasket facing the waterjacket where the corrosion is looks like it's turn into wet cardboard

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can anyone advise me on what to do?
 
That looks to me case of where the aluminium has bean eaten away by what looks like deposits between the head gasket and the head. It's quite interesting I have seen similar but not really that bad. The thing to consider is will that effect the sealing ability on the piston ring surface. I would say looking at that it is fine, although needs a good clean up.

Ed
 
i think maybe those cavities need fillin or skimmin or sumthing cos that area won't have any sealing pressure on the new gasket. or get a new head?
sounds like this is gona be ££
 
there is no sealing on those places. Its just the metal area around the bores that is important..
 
i did a compression test awhile ago and cylinder 1 + 2 were at 14.8psi but #3 was 15.1psi and #4 was only 14psi.
if the gasket was barely holding up, what couldve caused the leak and the smoke? think i'll dig in little deeper once i get some summore tools.

hmm i researched into it and found that one solution is to reweld n machine the surface

"GENERAL CORROSION
Reason: due to incorrect coolant mix, poor quality water or the breakdown of the coolant's chemical structure the cylinder head can suffer general corrosion. This type of corrosion is normally found around water jackets and water pumps.

Effect: on Operation blown head gaskets, water seepage, compression in the radiator due to blown head gasket.

Solution: grind out and weld repair all effected areas and reshape to OE specifications. While the head undergoes this process it may be necessary to re-align other components of the cylinder head, for instance cut seats, reseat valves, line bore. Flush out radiator, check all hoses and replace water pump if needed. Replace coolant with manufacturers specified coolant."

if i was to do that, should i take it to nissan to repair it at a cost, or should i take it to an engine repairer? anyone done this before or know what costs?

a m8 told me that there's some companies where i could trade my old engine for a reconditioned one. i might consider this cos it'll prob be cheaper, faster n effective than doin it myself.
 
how much you think?
i don't hav a crane.

holy moly

just got quoted from heathrowengines.co.uk and a rebuilt head'll b £295+vat and £50+vat deliver !

or a rebuilt engine is £595+vat and £70+vat

costs more than the entire car itself and def break my bank
was hoping to spend £150 max on fixin this prob.

i'm hittin a brick wall here.
 
the head has started to go porous theres no fix for it apart from replacement cylinder head, you might be able skim the head but it depends on how far it has gone either way it will be better to replace the head and overhaul the new/second hand one before you put it on
 
I still dont see the problem, its not a race engine where everything has to be perfecet this is a 90k road engine. The valves look like they need work the compression tests you got would have been in bar and that deviation on a normal road engine is acceptable at this age (not ideal). It does look however that its burning some oil, but I can tell from those images that there is no sign of severe headgasket leakage.

asdame, it seems you are not really listening to what I'm saying. The compression surfaces on that engine look ok. The head is far from perfect, and to be quite honest spending any money on this and the engine is a waste of time, dont get carried away. Those areas provide no sealing. The valves look in a mess. If you do anything clean them up and re-grind them in. That will most likely restore the compression. The best option would be to clean up this mess and bolt it back together or dont do anything and get another engine.

The second option would be my choice, it will be far cheaper if you can do the work.
 
I have a rebuilt head that i'm not using any more (I'm currently driving an Almera lol)

£70 + postage?

Let me know if you're interested.

James :)
 

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fordy, i was thinkin it could be welded up n skimmed but some parts r as bubbly as a bar of aero :p n deeper than afew 1000th inch so if it was skimmed alot it'll change the compression ratio.

ed, yea i get what ya mean, but the cavitations aint gona get any better till summin fails later on so might as well fix it now. i'll clean the valves up n see why #4 is leakin.
um what was option 2 again?

James, oh yes please :)
what engine did it come from or are the heads identical (i just install my 1.3 cams?)
is the face to spec? (not skimmed shorter)
 
I believe the heads are identical, I'll check up on this.

As for it being to spec - i'll check with Ed and let you know later (I'm at work at the moment).

James.
 
You can pay by cheque if you want but i'd prefer a bank transfer. I'll look into postage costs tonight (unless you can pick it up from Surrey (near Croydon) or North Kent).

Email me at james :at: micra.org.uk if you want to discuss further :)

James.
 
asdame said:
fordy, i was thinkin it could be welded up n skimmed but some parts r as bubbly as a bar of aero :p n deeper than afew 1000th inch so if it was skimmed alot it'll change the compression ratio.
Click to expand...
Yeah you may raise compression ratio but it wont result in anything harmful.
 
right, i just removed all the valves tday and r in good order (though exhaust ports 1mm full of soot) so the leak may hav come from the gasket or a blown ring.
gona take out the pistons in weekend to inspect, just to be sure.
 
hmm to remove the sump, haynes just says remove the central support bar first but what it didn't say was support the rear end of engine cos the upper front mounts r offset from the engines centre of mass, so when i took it off the whole engine twisted down abit which scared me pants off while underneath.

neway i have a prob
i removed the engine sump bolts and wack it with hand to break the gasket seal but all afternoon it won't budge after wackin it with me hands (really sore), foot and a rubber mallet.

any ideas?
 
a-ha
got it off tday by gently nudging afew blades round the sump n giving it a big thump, one side loosened so i had to use a screwdriver to pry the other side off.

got the pistons out n gave em n overhaul.
man! its so good to see the pistons turn from sooty oily black into a shiny piece of aluminium:grinning:
wish i took pics but damn bulky cam has no power again.

that Gunk degreaser stuff has stank the house with a white spirit smell now, its even melted the polystyrene cup as i was cleanin the piston rings.
 
does neone know if micra uses Torque To Yield headbolts? cos a site says they should be replaced when rebuildin engine.
 
little update

james has just sent off me cylinder head and should arrive next morning, weeeee :)

whilst waiting throughout january i cleaned through the old head, just for the crack.

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i also resorted to angle grindin and drillin out the two frozen bolts on the front exhaust cat and sand blasted it too

i lost one of the cat's gasket seal so'll hav to buy a new seal

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flushed the sump & cleaned the pistons and r now all nice shiny, mmm

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current state

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can't wait to get the new head on.
 
finally got me new cylinder head last friday, thank you much james :)

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all nice n flat n shiny but i noticed alot of grease packed in there (can't be too good during startup) and some hair n debris so it had to be overhauled.

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i stripped all the cam shells n cam followers till this one puts up a fight. won't budge off easily so eventually mole gripped the edge lip n yanked it out, replaced it with the older follower.

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inspection tells me the follower bore is slightly oval as if one side was bashed in hard

valves r out and loadsa grease there

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better

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i caught this odd crack in the exhaust follower bore nearest the dizzy, eek

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heads all assembled n oiled :)

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bolted in

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when assemblin the timing chain i had a right rant all night with this mutha piece of metal preventin the chain hooking onto the idle sprocket without brute force (lotsa swearing)

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putting in the temp sensors i noticed this hole that's not on my original head

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ah bummer

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engine's almost fin

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tday i looked for a simple M16 threaded brass stop-end at the local diy shop to plug that hole but they only had this 15mm-12mm converter and a 15mm end-cap, bah, ok might as well try it

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a thing i noticed bout the cooling system is that partco had prob given me the wrong thermostat cos its missin a bloomin small return valve found on the original themo, hence cos the system is completely sealed when cold, fillin at the radiator cap wont work cos air has nowhere to go so i had to pull out the heater matrix top pipe in order to fill the system :(

i put in the rad and the beam panel over it but noticed somethings very wrong, the top beam panel is totally misaligned to the left by 5mm, eay?

behind the front crossmember i found massive rust bucket and the crossmember panel near the rad mount has buckled a little hence may have moved the rad mounts, so this front chassis def needs changing asap

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hooked everything up, started it with no sparkplugs to check nothings bashing, then tested compressions but all chambers showed ZERO pressure!?

30secs later i slap me forehead as i realise that the new cam shims james put in were much thicker or too thick than me older thinner ones, therefore the valves r not closing properly. DOH! lucky the valves n pistons werent fighting each other

soooooo

i guess i hav to take back off the cam sprockets, bearin caps, cams, followers & new shims before puttin the old uns back in

will be a long week...:down:
 
well, i replaced the shims after ending up taking apart the timing cover, cams, sprockets n all, which was lonnng.

ran compression test again and now i have some, only it's in the low 11psi, cylinder 3 is 12psi and cylinder 4 is 10.9psi (same pattern as before so it might be old shims causing inconsistant valve-cam gaps).

fitted the exhaust (connecting the front cat to the front pipe with a sprung loaded bolt is a pain)

enabled fuel pump and held my breath as i started it to first time. heard a short firing but stalls cos idle screws too low so tried again with more pedal.
struggles a tiny bit then smooths out, held it to 1000rpm to sort itself out, let go and it idles at 900rpm.

OMG it works, it's alive! it's ALIVE mwhahaha lol. weeeee

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revved a lil, looking back and no smoke at all :)

ok ran for just a min cos it's 11pm freezing cold but i'll check it again in weekend.

spotted a big problem while jackin up the front. the crossmember which suffered from afew big rust holes is now buckling from being repeatedly jacked up which explains why the rad and top panel beam is misaligned.

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means i need to replace this front end asap (still waitin for my ebay order to be delivered)
so i need to get this "running a 240v 32amp cable from the house mains box" problem sorted out soon.
 
just ran it again tday and something concerns me. i hear tapping noise of the valves (bout 6 taps per sec @ 900rpm), could it be the large gap between the cams n old shims causing the valves to slam against its seating? or maybe its just the confined garage space.
 
lol, you need to check all your valve gaps properly with feeler gauges etc before you check anything else as youve mismatched the shims and the head, which means you might have to buy some new shims from nissan the right size u need.
 
same tensioner, no probs with it.

ah bumma. how much would a new set of shims from dealers cost me? or does partco do em?

it'll b ok to run it like this for now yea? cos it's a real pain to change shims.
 
I wouldn't risk running the engine with valve clearances that aren't within specification.

You need to measure the gap (with feeler gauges)
Then measure the shim that's in (with a micrometer)
Then calculate the size required to be within specification given by haynes (head / calculator)
I don't think they're too expensive from nissan
 
guess i gota take the cams apart again :down:

if only i could exchange these thick new'ish shims that james put on the new head with some proper spec shims for my cams.

i should also think bout changing that thermostat cos i'm real bugged bout trapped air in the system. wonder if partco would accept exchanging a used but wrong thermo for a proper vented version.

i think i'll sort out me rusted front end n renew susp arm beforehand.

raceworx you mean you removed ya shims? wouldn't ya cams be wrecked by now?
 
noooo got shims i meant that stupid metal bit that blocks the top cam chain from being changed or moved about without taking the whole engine to bits.. lol
 
Raceworx said:
noooo got shims i meant that stupid metal bit that blocks the top cam chain from being changed or moved about without taking the whole engine to bits.. lol
Click to expand...

Ohhh yea that bit
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argh that is such a stupid feature i thought when i was reassembling the head. would've hack sawed it off but thought bout the metal shavings going into the sump. more swearing later, i tried hammering it to one side with a long socket extension but twas difficult, could wreck the casing and the piece could've fallen into sump.
simply just yaked the chain up to engage.

although it was also helpful as i was removing the timing sprocket to remove camshaft and the sprocket fell down but trapped by that metal bit, otherwise it woulda dropped into the sump.

yet i'm gona have to do all that again soon, and i may think bout trimmin just a notch off the end of the bit to allow the chain to get on the sprocket.

couldn't nissan have just moved it a little bit lower or shorter y'know?
 
asdame said:
same tensioner, no probs with it.

ah bumma. how much would a new set of shims from dealers cost me? or does partco do em?

it'll b ok to run it like this for now yea? cos it's a real pain to change shims.
Click to expand...

shims are a long and annoying process, each shim when new has a thickness number on them,

you will have to measure the valve clearance and see how many mm you have to go down or up by to get the correct valve clearance and get the right shim

also the shims can be expensive, and i'd be surprised if you can get them from partco
 
i'll give em a ring tommorrow neway. but yea, i'd kinda doubt shops like partco would deal with special eng parts like shims.

Ohhh Eyyyy my front crossmember end just came in tday, soo exciting.
can't wait to start spot weldin but first id hav ta ask dad if a 32amp (wilko's) mains cable could be wired to our fusebox to run the welder one day(preferably with the whole house unplugged too)

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wrinkly at the bottom
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must do that before hirin the spot weld cos it's bout £42 a weekend.

btw has anyone eva tried fillin/sealin up the crossmember to prevent it from rusting inside out again? what if i just taped up the holes? or leave it.
 
well, i measured the clearances n shims and looks like i need to get a new set of shims.

made a graph of how far off the clearances are from the ideal spec.
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from my calcs it looks like the inlet camshaft lobes have worn more than the exhaust lobes.

i'm still tryin to figure out why cylinder 4 had the lowest compression.

ahh bumm. dad says 32amp spot welder won't work on our fusebox, i big blow to my plans n budget. may hav to let local garage to do it.
 
bah, been a bad day again for parts.

went to nissan bout the shims and they've only got 4 of the 16 thicknesses i needed (cos never had such requests in years) and they're £5 each :s
guy suggests i goto an engine recon place instead in town cos they'll prob have em.

i got 2 new lower radiator brackets £4.76 BUT i also requested an intermediate exhaust mounting bracket and it costs £30!! for a simple bracket. no thanks nissan. i'd rather fabricate my own with sheet steel n a rod.

went to partco bout that wrong thermostat and its the only one in their system.
i figure i'll just improvise by swapping the new thermostat onto the old housing, weld it together.

left is new, right is original
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took it apart
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new thermostat in old housing
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ok, i went to the local engine rebuild shop and they don't have any shims of these sizes too. i'm doubting i'll find any around here. guy give's me addr for a machining place to mill these new thicker shims down to the size i need but i wonder how much that'll cost me fwn
 
no they dont i had a printout of the shims list there were 256 (approx on my printouts) seperate sizes of shim.. have a look on a nissan fast CD you should be able to pull the part numbers off then go straight in with them..
 
Here's a list of all the shims Nissan can get and the appropriate part numbers.

Each one is suffixed "T=<number>" where the number is thickness in mm I assume. The part numbers for each are on the right.

It's a 28 page PDF (even though its a tiny file) :)

Hope this helps,
James

Edit: I've slimmed it down to just the shims that apply to your model (click "Shim List 2.pdf" for that version)
 

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Ed - yep. the shims i listed there'll bring the clearances back upto spec.

raceworx & james - had a look at the list and the nissan guy gave me a printout of the shims part no. but he mentioned that most of the shims that he crossed out were "on back-order", and can only get 4 of the shims listed.

in terms of back-order, does that mean he'll hav to order em from abroad and wait for ages to arrive?

i'll checkout this machining shop in the meantime.
 

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