Changing Timing Chain Guide?

yes the 3 sprocket marks will repeat every 2 turns, but the chain will be shunted round a few links each time.
and the vvt is activated by oil pressure eh (from the solenoid and ecu) but the mech has to be set in that position prior to fitting eh
 
ah really?? maybe that explains something.

although the three sprockets were pretty much aligned on the old chian the coloured links we way out not lining up with anything. is this normal?

so there is no way other than starting the engine to test the vvt, so all this hard work could go down the drain :(
 
yes, its normal, and you would need to turn the engine with the cam advanced to check for valve/piston contact, and also check with the cam retarded too
 
ahhh just found this, so it would seem you can have more than one go if you think you got it wrong


While removing the intake camshaft sprocket, if the lock pin has been rejoined in the most retarded position,

do the following to restore it.

a. Reinstall the intake camshaft sprocket to the intake camshaft and tighten the mounting bolts enough to

prevent air leaking out when the air pressure is applied later.

CAUTION:

To prevent internal lock pin from damaging, keep the torque on the mounting bolts to the minimum

required to prevent air from escaping.
 
just found this (yes im reading and updating as i go along sorry)

further down in the workshop manaul when you get to fitting the new chain, once the chain is fitted it says

Turn the crankshaft pulley (1) slowly clockwise to return the

intake camshaft sprocket to the most retarded position.


so i dont think i need to disengage the pins, providing i dont damage them tightening the sprocket back on everything is fine. the manual seems to suggest disengage the pins to the remove the sprock, then engage them once its back on. it doesnt say leave the disengaged
 
can anyone tell me where this pipe from the gear box goes?

DSC_0278_zps8e6e90ef.jpg
 
been running the car for a couple of weeks now and wow, what a difference.

it starts first time every time, it drivers well and it so bloody quite. was a lot of work and a massive learning curve but well worth doing
 
the reason the guide says to use compressed air to dis engage the pin in the VVT sprocket is so when you unbolt the sprocket you don't sheer the pin.

when I did my chain the chain wasn't on the sprocket so it didn't matter.

so if you can remove the chain without removing the vvt sprocket sorted, if you cant then you will need to use compressed air and dis engage the pin.
or just remove the chain from one of the other sprockets so the chain isn't under tension
 
Hi, appreciate this is an old thread but need help with upper sump removal as at present i do not have haynes manual. i have removed lower sump I have then removed three bolts from within upper sump, 7 small bolts from around sump edge, 3 bolts to go onto gearbox and two long bolts which go vertical joining sump/gearbox area. can someone confirm if these are all the bolts as I cannot brak seal between upper sump and main engine. I appreciate I will have to undo gearbox and separate to get sump off completely but for now I just wanted to break seal. I have used quite a bit of force but from cranshaft pulley end moved arpund 2mm but that was it, I am loathe to use any more force in case of braking something so I am guessing something is stopping it, any ideas. Does the gearbox/engine have to be parted to break seal?
 
likewise for removing VVT sprocket looking at previous posts I can see how this is done but there is no mention of how to put it back on ie has the same procedure got to be done, has it got to be retarded/advanced?
There happened to be a report on this in car mechanics a while ago and they make no mention of splitting gearbox/engine but removed offside driveshaft instead, anyone done it this way and did it work?
 
with regards to VVT sprocket, the easiest way to remove it is to take the chain off so there is no tension whatsoever on the vvt sprocket. then you can just undo the sprocket.

the reason you are suppose to disengage the pin is cos if the chain is on the vvt sprocket, everything is under tension. so trying to undo the sprocket could sheer the pin.

same goes for putting the vvt sprocket back on, bolt it up tight without the chain on, then you wont have to worry about the pn

as for upper sump I really cant remember, but breaking seal was a right game. just keep at it

Moderated
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Hi, yes thanks, I understand the principal behind disengaging the pin to prevent breakage but ideally I could do with specific answers to these
1) how many bolts secure gearbox to engine, I have removed seven but will not split, am I missing any?
2) does the starter have to be removed to split gearbox/engine, do their bolts also help in joining engine/gearbox?
3) I understand that you cannot put inlet sprocket on and tighten as chain cannot be put on after so I will put camshaft sprockets and chain as a whole. When putting sprockets back on camshaft in particular the inlet containing the vvt can it go on exactly as it came off and providing timing marks have not moved can the bolt be tightened with the vvt still in the advanced position ie cam turned to front of car with pin disengaged? If so once fitted how is the pin re engaged? Is this done automatically as engine turns over or do you have to turn camshaft anticlockwise to engage pin?
Has no one completed this job?
 
Hi Dav how did you get on with the chain ? iam at early stages of doing this just dismantling at moment, did you manage to engage the pin with air presure ?
 
Hi, apologies for delay, but yes completed it all o.k and has been running fine ever since. It was one of those jobs that when you actually do it, it is easier than you think. The best way I can think of to describe it is to think of the poles for example that tents use or similar, the ones where one pole goes into each other and a small spring loaded-pin goes into a small hole to lock it in place. If the inner pole is the camshaft and the outer pole the timing chain going around it. By using air pressure to push this pin in rotate the camshaft backwards ie spanner goes back towards car for about 30 degrees. You may or may not hear a click when this is done. This allows the camshaft to rotate independantly from the chain so there is no tension. The camshaft nut can then be loosened by using two spanners to hold the camshaft still and The chain can then come off. When the chain goes back on the camshaft is rotated clockwise, ie spanner goes to front of car and then this reingages the pin. Again you should hear a click when this is done and also when it happens the camshaft and timing chain rotate as one, do not rotate the camshaft beyond this point using the camshaft socket. If you need any help with any of the process please let me know as I know it was a bit of a pain of a job and takes some time to complete and i can write a step by step guide on how to complete if necessary.
 
Oh boy, I can finally consider those new performance cams I've always wanted .... :rolleyes: was the timing chain replaced with the engine "in-situ" (not removed from the engine bay)?
 
Hi, yes engine was left in situ, you will need however some form of support from above ie RSJ, engine hoist etc as you have to support from above whilst removing offside engine mount and also sump so if you only have axle stands etc then it will become a very hard job to do. You also need to raise front of car as high as you possibly to allow you more room underneath. The main things I found different to that in manual was the front exhaust once disconnected from manifold did not go low enough despite undoing lambada sensor wiring so had to remove exhaust support just behind engine this was so sump could be removed and I also had to pull offside driveshaft out as it was getting in way of separating engine and gearbox, on the whole not the easiest of jobs but certainly do able just takes time, looking at it and what I had to take apart it would not have taken much more work to get engine out and would have certainly made the job of sump removal etc a whole lot easier with engine on a stand, if I ever had to do job again I would certainly consider this option and if engine ever needed any other work at same time this would definitely be the way I would go, has anyone on here done it both ways and if so what are your view
 
Im really just trying to get to the camshafts ..... Pipercams said they'd do a reprofiling job for me if I sent them in :D but I know the timing chain will need to be at least partially removed to get the cams out
 
raptoranderson said:
Im really just trying to get to the camshafts ..... Pipercams said they'd do a reprofiling job for me if I sent them in :D but I know the timing chain will need to be at least partially removed to get the cams out
Click to expand...
how are you gonna sort the valve clearance, if you get the cams reprofiled ?
 
raptoranderson said:
They already do performance camshafts for K12's and so will just copy over the dimensions to the new cams if that's what you're asking? They already have predetermined figures for increasing duration times and clearances from what I can see and so it's a case of just installing the reprofiled cams (porting and polishing is preference based).

http://www.pipercams.co.uk/pipercams/www/product.php?pid=NISMICBP270
Click to expand...
the billet ones maybe yeh, the reprofiled cams need custom buckets or shims tho
 
VVT - I am currently considering a timing chain job... inspection possibly replacing.. Just a query.. does the inlet cam sprocket have to be messed about with at all? Could the new chain be fitted by simply removing the exhaust cam sprocket and ensuring the sprocket positions are correct when re-fitting?
 
you will probably find that the inlet mechanism will release itself when you remove the chain phil, so you would have to take that into account when timing the new chain
 
frank said:
you will probably find that the inlet mechanism will release itself when you remove the chain phil, so you would have to take that into account when timing the new chain
Click to expand...

Ah thanks. Really looks like a daunting task. The locking pin details really confuse me. I assume it is released by oil pressure so at rest it should be engaged. Why would I want to disengage it? (the air pressure thing). Looking at the mechanism - without oil pressure (and with the locking pin disengaged) the sprocket would be all loose with regard to the cam shaft so fitting the chain would be all wrong with respect to timing. Perhaps what is meant is that once the chain is fitted you re-engage the pin before setting the location marks on each pulley? Or do these instructions only refer to when one is using high force to actually remove the sprocket? I pictured myself simply turning the sprocket+cam to get the marks in the correct position and didn't think simply turning the sprocket would produce enough force to damage the pin. To summarise - if the inlet sprocket is left in place and not going to removed you can leave the locking pin engaged if you are only going to turn the sprocket with gentle force to match the timing marks and pushing the pin back with air pressure is only necessary if you are going to use main force to actually remove the sprocket?
 
I think first I should get an accurate diagnosis. My wife ran the car without oil! No warning light came on (as reported).. and there was a "new" ticking noise that got louder. I listened to it and it sounds like a whirring rattling noise from the engine front. The engine runs OK.. and no engine warning lights on.. but it does sound like quite a rattle. It doesnt seem to keep time to the revs so I guess I am optimistically assuming it isn't the small ends.. it sounds more like a rattle and swish than a knocking. The thing is... if I haul the engine out.. check the chain and put it in again.. and it is something else.. then that will be a little rough. God knows how may things I will have to unhook before getting the engine out! I did a k10 before and that wasnt too bad.. though I ended up lifting the engine over the front of the car manually!! I will put more extension on the hoist arm this time!
 
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Just a thought.. if the sump was dry then would lack of oil pressure lead to the tensioner adjuster falling back into its cylinder leaving the chain all slack?
Would refilling the oil push the piston back out? A bit of straw clutching.. but the garage has quoted £1500 for the job.. and I won't go for that while I can still operate a spanner.
 
Embarked on swapping the engine. A bit daunting. Now I remember why I don't do this stuff.. just following the instructions is tough enough.. I forgot what reality is like. The FIRST nut... exhaust mount... sheared off. This task is going to be an utter b@stard. Later... suspension strut bolt... siezed. No idea how to remove front bumper... even reading the service manual. I will never be able to lift it clear without removing the front bits.
 
I'll add on a bit more since I only described the plastic bumper. Once the bumper is off you should see the crash bar which is bolted onto the chassis by three or four bolts at each end. Remove these bolts and ensure that the horn is detached and the whole thing should then lift off.
 
Thanks - i have sorted it now... the engine is out... just need to shove the new one in and see if it goes. After buying new exhaust studs... I knew I should have taken a torch to them.. I just cut corners a little.. and ended up taking longer as usual!
 
I'd really be interested in a detailed-ish report of how an engine swap went after you're finished. I'm moving on from my life in the UK and only driving my Micra when I'm back home visiting family, but I am determined to get another K12 in the future and do a full race build on it with a 160sr and a turbocharger. Plus an engine swap is just one of those things I'd love to do in theory, but as per usual it's never as glamorous and fun as TV makes it out to be :D
 
Well I got it in last night and turned it over... it ran on the second try.
Not totally happy... it is revving high.. and my brake servo is ineffective. I have probably missed a hose somewhere or connected it wrong.
The exhaust is noisy... though I did tighten up the studs.. so not sure what is going on there. I also may have damaged a sensor on the exhaust... er.... getting the engine out.. i was yanking on it.. and something was holding it back... er... the sensor on the exhaust was still connected oops!
The engine warning light is on. I didn't even see that on the engine I pulled out.. and that was knackered. So.. I guess more investigation. A better diagram needed.

I would say the job would be OK if you have a good hoist and some room. I was doing it on a sloping drive and had to repair my hoist by welding a new bottle jack on it. I thought I had drained the gearbox but had only opened the filling port. So when I pulled the drive shafts ... a lot of oil came out very messy. So... next time.. drain it properly. I found I did not have to release the wheel hubs completely to pull the shafts... just remove the brake caliper and undo the bolts fastening it the suspension strut. There is enough room to then pop the driveshafts. Loads of connections... and pipes! A good diagram would be handy and plastic bags to keep all the screws and fasteners. The lousy plastic fasteners on the bodywork just break so having a bag of them on hand would have been nice. I would have some WD40 on hand and a blow torch to persuade the tricky bits. My left hand mount wouldn't come out.. and in the end I just undid the whole mount assembly on the engine. With a functioning hoist I probably could have lowered it in without removing the front bumper and saved some time. The polystyrene "impact absorber" managed to sneek out as I was bolting it up!! I did not have the heart to undo and repeat.. so I will keep that to one side. I have managed to misplace one caliper retaining bolt.. this is what comes of slaving after work in the gathering gloom.
I could do it again.. it would be a lot easier the second time around. Perhaps lifting it vertically would have avoided all that extra work removing front fender.. side panels.. headlights.. wheel arch fittings... etc.
Right now... er.. mildly optimistic.. though my second hand engine may have issues.. and I am worried about all the connections and sensors.
All in all better than the £1500 bill I was facing.. but it will have to settle down before I can sign off on it.
 
You're right about the learning procedure ^ i've no idea how you'd do it though. I remember the old days when you just needed a 10mm spanner and a couple screwdrivers to adjust your throttle, idle speed and fuel input .... those were the days. I've got a WRC spec K12 Micra build written on my bucket list so it'll be something i"ll get around to eventually. In the meantime i'll make sure I keep learning as much as I can about cars and building up my resume to better prepare myself :D did you not find engine diagrams online? I felt sure I saw a couple kicking around on some parts supply websites .... I asked my nearest Nissan dealership for every diagram they had on the K12 but of course I got no response
 
I downloaded a service manual.. which is OK.. Sorted my brake problem and (as I suspected) my revving issue... the engine I put in had a brake vacuum hose on it.. so did the car!! So.. at the end I had something of an extra hose situation.. which I resolved by sticking it somewhere...
Now servo vacuum back on.. and revs behaving themselves. The exhaust is still annoying.. I reckon the studs need washers.. there is a wide bit.. but it fits through the flange.. so... by the time they are screwed in as far as they can go.. the exhaust still feels a bit loose.. and it is a little noisy.
Maybe it is a gasket thing? There was a cone of gasket like material in the manifold on the old engine.. but there was already one in the new engine so I just went with that. Maybe there are two pieces?? It is these small details that manuals don't cover. I need real pictures.
 
Exhaust leaks are just impossible :( because you're trying to stop sound from escaping before it reaches the muffler tip and obviously its hard to completely seal up every single joint and gasket. Might just be a case of dropping the whole exhaust and checking each piece one by one for leaks? Plus the exhaust heats up and then cools down like 2 or 3 times a day everyday of its life and so each part expands and shrinks which ruins the seals and messes up the bolts. And don't forget about the wonders of rust
 
Spent £25 to get the engine diagnosed... result was leaky throttle body. Hmmm. My ebay engine wasn't perfect.. though to be fair maybe I knacked it putting it in. I swapped the old one and the revs went to normal. I'll be dipped if I could find a crack anywhere or leak.. but neither could the garage mechanic. Spent a deal of time looking for the clutch fluid "reservoir" to top it up. After much head scratching.. figured it was the same as the brake reservoir. Maybe a note in the manual would have helped with that one. I reckon the vehicle is good to go. The engine light is still on. I did what the garage mechanic did and pulled off the MAP sensor connector to see how the revs were affected.. then stuck it on again. Sadly I don't have the computer gizmo to cancel the warning. Oops. But it all seems to be running OK.
 

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