Turbo ideas/help

superls

superls

K10 Tuner
Hi All, i need a little help with a turbo/ need some new eyes on my idea to make sure im not being stupid and or going to blow my engine.

the turbo i need help with is a renault derived 1.5 DCI engine, but probably the same for mose derv turbo's

if i have the theory correct, the boost pipe obviously boosts, when it reaches boost X the waste gate begins to open, if boost drops below X the wastegate closes again. would people say this is correct?

p.s. im struggling to upload a picture any help, photobucket is blocked at work
 
well this is the pipework layout
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yes thats how a normal pressure w/g works scott, but like neil says, many diesel actuators pull instead of push :)
 
Vent a little boost locally to the waste gate to atmosphere giving the actuator a lower than actual reading thus more boost???

Or am I mad?
 
ah right, see im learning, :) never had anything to do with turbos,

but ive figured out that more boost + more diesel = more power, i can easily upp the diesel by tricking the rail pressure sensor and can now get more boost by tricking the wastegate, so here comes the power :)
 
superls said:
for some reason KP35 springs to mind, its just the standard turbo for the car, 1.5dci clio
Click to expand...
ahh, diesel turbo,s tend to be very small eh scott, i was looking at some more yesterday :rolleyes: and found loads of little to3,s and gt15,s etc.
i tried those types originally, and they gave a hell of a kick lowdown, but for trackwork/ragging etc they turn into a heatpump at 5k rpm or more.
is yours intercooled ?
 
no frank its not, mine is only the 65bhp one, the 85 and 100bhp ones are though, so it is something im looking to get, but there just arent any diesel clios in scrapyeard up here, seen 1 in 1 year of ownership, and i have then engine, but thats only the 65 aswell
 
superls said:
Right then well I've had a brain wave, see below
image.jpg
Click to expand...

frank didn't we find that diesel turbo WG actuators operate in exact opposite (more vacuum = more opening) as oppose to a gasoline turbo (more +ve pressure = more opening)?

so even with the above layout, any +ve pressure will just close/push the WG shut and cause dangerous overboost. or if the actuator hose is not plumbed to prevent +ve pressure, so ur relying on actuator preload to hold it shut, the turbo still won't be able to operate at max efficiency

the alternative i once mentioned was either fit a +ve type actuator on the other side of the wg arm or reverse the vacuum actuator plumbing to the other side of the diaphram
 
pollyp said:
frank didn't we find that diesel turbo WG actuators operate in exact opposite (more vacuum = more opening) as oppose to a gasoline turbo (more +ve pressure = more opening)?

so even with the above layout, any +ve pressure will just open/leak the WG. or if the actuator hose is not plumbed to prevent +ve pressure, so ur relying on actuator preload to hold it shut, the turbo still won't be able to operate at max efficiency

the alternative i once mentioned was either fit a +ve type actuator or reverse the WG swingarm
Click to expand...
yes, thats what i had to do on my td025 vauxhall turbo eh paul :)
 
well the top picture is how its plumbed so i can only assume its boost controlled, as there will never really be a vacuum in the boost pipes as there is no throttle flap
 
frank said:
yes the brake servo reservoir eh paul (a constant value) :)
Click to expand...

ah righteo;)

so to run a diesel vacuum actuator on a petrol, we'd need to either:
  • figure a way of converting +ve pressure into vacuum progressively or instantly (vac pump triggered by a +ve boost pressure switch?)
  • fit a +ve actuator & weld the WG arm on the opposite pivot side
  • fit a +ve actuator to act on the opposite side the WG arm
  • mod the actuator inlet to the other side of the diaphram so as boost builds, it pulls open the WG
 
superls said:
there will never really be a vacuum in the boost pipes as there is no throttle flap
Click to expand...
yeh, thats why turbo diesels are more efficient than turbo petrol i guess eh, mine runs half a bar of vacuum cruising @ 70, because the butterfly/throttleflap is only open a tad, yours is probably running a little bit of boost @ 70 scott ?
 
superls said:
well the top picture is how its plumbed so i can only assume its boost controlled, as there will never really be a vacuum in the boost pipes as there is no throttle flap
Click to expand...

hook a tyre pump or low pressure line to the actuator to see if it has enough travel to move progressively against increasing pressure (moves 1mm per ??psi)
 
frank said:
yeh, thats why turbo diesels are more efficient than turbo petrol i guess eh, mine runs half a bar of vacuum cruising @ 70, because the butterfly/throttleflap is only open a tad, yours is probably running a little bit of boost @ 70 scott ?
Click to expand...

aye pumping losses.
mine cruises at 70 with round -10psi depending on incline
 
frank said:
what about neutral paul (and scott) ? mine has sweet F/A boost, even if i bounce it off the limiter :)
Click to expand...

can't remember. its -25psi at idle so 3k rpm under no load is prob round 15-20psi vac? will check next time i drive her
yea i think she's almost zero boost while free reving the limiter. can hear the tub spin nicely but prob not enough exh load to compress any more inlet pressure & volume at that rpm/flow? again will note next time
 
pollyp said:
ah righteo;)

so to run a diesel vacuum actuator on a petrol, we'd need to either:
  • figure a way of converting +ve pressure into vacuum progressively or instantly (vac pump triggered by a +ve boost pressure switch?)
  • weld the WG arm on the opposite pivot side
  • if the vacuum actuator preload spring can be reversed to pull the rod rather than push, could reposition the actuator on the other side of the pivot

imo I'd just fit a similar spring rated +ve pressure actuator from a petrol turbo
Click to expand...
the turbo i have aquired from work a pipe that goes from the w/g actuator to the turbine housing so no vacuum pump needed i will get a pic if you like?
 
yea thats a +ve actuator hooked to the "compressor housing". I got confused when you say Turbine which usually refers to the hot side
 
ah crap. guys i realised i confused myself between a vacuum diesel actuator and +ve pressure actuator.
have corrected posts 15 & 22 :oops:
 
Belly93 said:
i understand congtrol it but higher only tho eh?
Click to expand...
aye, if its a 7psi actuator, then you can use a boost controller to achieve 10 or 14 psi or whatever.
mine has an extra spring fitted over the rod to lower the 10 psi actuator down to 8 psi
 
frank said:
aye, if its a 7psi actuator, then you can use a boost controller to achieve 10 or 14 psi or whatever.
mine has an extra spring fitted over the rod to lower the 10 psi actuator down to 8 psi
Click to expand...
would 7 psi be safe to run on standard internals?
 
long as the MAF, injectors, regulator and pump can still operate at the target bhp and the AFR, boost & engine temperature and timing are controlled within safe zones before detonation by altering fuel/ign mapping or parameters, fuel octane and upgraded cooling, the k11 standard pistons, rod and crank can easily endure ie. 10psi on a trackday with the right upgrades like on mine. dunno what the absolute safe limit is
 

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