Suspension system.

[Deleted member 31521]

Could paint them grey i guess with spare I have left.
I have plenty of primer I could be using.
It might look nice in grey. Only problem is its another task and I don't know if I will have the time to prep and paint them.
So the lower cushions will need to be replaced if they are not worth of re using.
Also I did have painting the springs in mind.To add some type of colour but I'm guessing that will flake off or not look nice in time.

Drilling requires patience. I have some rivets to remove still and have bought drill bits.
I'm aware of the way to use a drill. And it's a lot different than with woodworking.
Some set I bought last time. Were with hex bits and they were completely blunt from the start with any type of metal they handy for drilling wood and plastic.

My granddad was a professional Carpenter,Joiner/engineer it would have been great to gain all the skills from what he learned.
One thing he did pass on to me was the passion and mindset of great genius.


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[Mach1]

Yes I think you will get there, just one day at a time is my best advice, experience and skill builds of over time, so do the tools, don't waste too much time on painting at this stage.

 

[Deleted member 31521]

True its only a minor scuff I will touch it up in a few seconds but the paint might have a slight carbonic look to it.

Something I need to workout is. How to determine the left one from the right strut. I was guessing at it will look the same orientation as the one I'm removing.
And was looking at the bump stop for the spring or at least where its ment to sit when placed.
Probably part number will determine it to be correct side.

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[Deleted member 31521]

It's easy for me with years of experience in Engineering, but I know it can be daunting at first, best to build your experience up in stages. a quick note is that running a drill bit at excessive speeds bill burn the end out with the wrong material. My struts were resprayed in grey to give them better rust protection, but that personal choices. I also put some bottom rubber cushion at bottom of springs as the original one were a joke and perished anyway.

The rubber cushion If its okay I will try to clean up and re-use along with the dust boots. if they are really bad I will try and get new before the installation goes ahead

 

[Mach1]

The struts should have a R or L stamped on them, failing that put them in a position to where they are going and line up where the steering knuckle is bolted and make sure the flange that the drop link is bolted to is facing forward you will then have them identified. As you said if part numbers are a present then this should also help. dust cover can be cleaned in a bucket of warm soapy water and leave for ten minutes as the crud that has attached itself to the rubber over the years will need time to soften.

 

[Deleted member 31521]

Yeah I done same thing with the exhaust hangers cause they were rather messy it almost ruined my new padded work gloves.

Thank you, For the smart info on the cushions for bottom of springs. I will definitely be getting those. As I'm sure the originals will be messy if they actually survived all this time.

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[Mach1]

If you go for the Ford ones, they are much more tougher for the job.well worth the couple of £ for them.?

 

[Deleted member 31521]

Wondering if I should get a ball joint separator tool.
The splitter tool would work but I really want to preserve the originals if possible as they might still be reusable although I won't be in a hurry to reuse I don't want to be hitting them with hammer because that will probably ruin them.
This and it kinda looks like beating up the car with a hammer.
Any how the fork ones look okay but what a bout one of these and if they are worth getting would I have to get a specific size.

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[Mach1]

I have tried and broken lots of ball joint splitters, yes you will need a splitter as any impact from a hammer blow could affect the steering and wheel knuckle which houses the ABS sensor! the one I use at the moment is super tough and adjustable in claw size:
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/450711B-Expert-Ball-Joint-Separator-Splitter-Puller-Track-Rod-End/283599652661?hash=item4207db4735:g:-VUAAOSwYUZdak6

 

[Deleted member 31521]

That's fine if it does not last for long.
I just want to be making sure the the install is done properly and not to make too many errors or mistakes by forgetting the important things.
I'm also thinking this will save me some time. Not to mention a lot of exhaustion from working without essential tools.

Hopefully I can find one that does not break before I learn how to use it properly

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[Mach1]

You will not go wrong if you take your time and think about any problems that may crop up before you start, The tool that I have mentioned will not give you any problems and will last, and is tough enough for larger jobs than steering knuckles. the steering knuckles are a tapered fit and lock into position once tightened up, they need a good tool to remove and I would not recommend a tool until I have tested them first.

 

[Deleted member 31521]

After I have gotten all the parts so far I think there is one left to arrive.
Just having this idea that some bits I missed off the list.
And if I'm unable to remove the top nuts easy.
I doubt I'm going to face such a problem however. I'm thinking instead of doing this I should just get these. so I can pre assemble the front before fitting.

This being the bump stops and dust covers that in reluctant rush into buying because of course they are just a rubber boot and well I'm not sure about the bump stop.
These I was not finding. When searching so must be another one that fits different models that so far I have noticed on a few items.
And obviously for what they are I didn't want to buy them and later find they are ripping me off for a dust cover.


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[Deleted member 31521]

This is the ones I just found and they look like they might be made from a cheap plastic.
I'm not very sure if they will fit but it says compatible with k12

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[Micratec]

Here are photos of my top mounts, same issue as here, new Eibach Sportline springs now on their way from Germany so revisiting this matter now too.

I intend to experiment and use the standard shocks to see how the car feels before I commit to buying a new set, I was fretting about that happening because of the rusty top not however I am assured these top will come off with an air gun and I can reuse the shocks once the threads are sorted. I have ordered new top nuts.

Updates to follow...

 

[Deleted member 31521]

I will try to remove the rust with a wire brush attachment.(Dremel tool)
Spray it down good with penetrating fluid.
Then I'm going to hit it with the impact.
I will post a video of the difference between the two struts. (New and old)
And hopefully find that it wasn't a wasted effort to replace the whole lot.
I'm pretty sure they won't be that much life left in them if any at all over 100k miles

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[Micratec]

I intended to do exactly the same with a wire brush however my mechanic guy said don't even bother, they'll come off easily with an air gun, hopefully his confidence isn't misplaced, he did say spray them with WD40 or similar a few days before the work.

I am completely aware of all the horror stories regarding lowering, general consensus seems to be that Eibach springs are allegedly progressive and supposedly not any less comfortable than standard springs so I decided to go with the standard shocks and even re-using the current top mounts for an exact as I can get direct comparison between the standard and Eibach springs, no expectations either way, prepared for any outcome. I intended to get the poly bush set fitted at the same time but decided against that to for the comparison reasons too.

My car is a 56 plate with just 69k miles.

 

[Deleted member 31521]

Your mechanic is right it will come off easy they ain't that bad.
I removed something much worse from the exhaust.
Once I had it off the car I was testing to see if I could remove really bad nuts and bolts.
And this one was terrible it took a few spins then just let go.
My next task was a dual monitor stand and that was easy but with anything else it was going to take every hit I could manage.
The thread was rounded off hex stripped so put a line down with the grinder and gave it one turn that was all it took and not even pressing the button fully.

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[Micratec]

Your mechanic is right it will come off easy they ain't that bad.
I removed something much worse from the exhaust.
Once I had it off the car I was testing to see if I could remove really bad nuts and bolts.
And this one was terrible it took a few spins then just let go.
My next task was a dual monitor stand and that was easy but with anything else it was going to take every hit I could manage.
The thread was rounded off hex stripped so put a line down with the grinder and gave it one turn that was all it took and not even pressing the button fully.

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Well that's me convinced, what new parts are you fitting?

 

[Deleted member 31521]

I have TRW front and rear stuts.
(These look really good and should be okay for future changes if needed)
Conti D coils for front.(Cheap ones for now can be upgraded to lowered later without loosing an arm and a leg)
(Napa boxed got me thinking what on earth are these)
The top mounts for a clio they look identical to stock.
New Lower arms that are German built
(Not sure the name)
Anti roll bars just looks oe
Spring cushions ford
And in search if new bump stops and dust covers. (Labour saving idea so I can preserve the old and replace back if I'm not happy with results)

Will photo them when assemble time is here.
Should be soon but might wait till after MOT to give me extra time to install them along with new belts and plugs.


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[Mach1]

I will warn you that until the front shocks are removed (COMPLETE)from the car DO NOT ATTEMPT TO UNDO THE TOP BEARING NUT!!!!!!!!! this nut is designed to hold the front Shock Absorber to the bearing and is under extreme pressure from the front spring, you will damage the threads and maybe your selfs.
The procedure is that you unbolt drop link, then the leg of the front strut from the drive knuckle two 12 mm bolts, then unbolt the 3 bolts holding the top bearing from the car. ONLY WHEN YOU HAVE DONE THIS AND REMOVED THE WHOLE UNIT, can you then compress the main spring thereby taking pressure off the top bearing, ONLY then can you remove the top nut and disconnect the bearing from Shock Absorber, ?
the following dust covers I recommend as they are synthetic rubber with the bump stop built in.
/www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2x-Monroe-Front-Axle-Shock-Absorber-Dust-Cover-Kit-Boot-Gaiter-Bellow-Genuine/352245475716?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649?

 

[Deleted member 31521]

I'm fully aware that it must be done while the spring is clamped down with the compressors that I got some gloves with for free.wow actually only one free item.
And would not dream of undoing that nut with out removing from the car first.

That and I intend to keep them intact. But others may wish to give them a last check to see if they still working. In the case of the 60k mile one that may well have 20 left or more of good use before they need to be replaced depending on overall condition and previous usage.

I do want to see if mine are as bad as I think though because it will show a good example from a high mileage strut.

Those Monroe ones don't include the bump stops. While I know what the dust boots are for.
The bump stops I'm kinda confused with what they actually needed for?


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[Mach1]

glad to hear that, I have seen many an accident from front shocks.?

 

[Deleted member 31521]

Well if I'm going to do it I'm definitely going to be using as much safety precautions as I can.
Springs can be strong on lots of different things but car springs are super strong looking.
The warnings and safely methods are always welcome. And will not ignore such important information. Although I may not have described that they need to be compressed I did mention that the spring compressors are something I would be using.Even if I am kinda disappointed that they smell awful.
Maybe that explains the free gloves

Thank you for the info on the bump stops I'm just looking those type up. That is both and I found them for a lower price that look the same as what you have linked to.. Bit of over spend it will be worth it tho.
Dry cornflakes with some water for the rest of the year i guess.?

(The only area I'm not completing fully with new parts is the rear)

Okay that's everything I'm going to need to complete the install.
Will list each part by number when I take a snap of everything soon.


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[Mach1]

Hope all goes well, if you get stuck, take a break think about it and you always have the forum for help.

 

[Deleted member 31521]

Here is what I got so far can't show the last item as its not here till few more days.
Listing part numbers here :-
Springs - GS7045F CD Auto Parts Coil Springs (these are not in perfect condition the coating is damaged) should be new perfect conditions. (Enquiring why they are damaged)
Anti roll bars NK Pro- N5112521N
Strut Top mount - AEM5173 Right/Hand
-AEM5172 Left/Hand

Lower control arms (HDAG) - HD6325 FCA6325 HD6324FCA6324 Left & right

Front suspension Struts (TRW) -JGM6034T Left and right kit.
(They seem to be same but must be different because the break line is held at the rear side facing toward the cabin.) This is just trying to identify L and R..

Rear suspension Struts (TRW Nos) - JGT450T Pair. Not show in picture but I have then maybe they are slightly different from the front set however they look as though they match visually?
Again L and R isn't clearly labeled unsure here but read one should be left and one right?

With this I can only say how hard can it be for them to stamp it With L and R.

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[Deleted member 31521]

Smelly spring compressors very important item for safe removal and install of springs. Unsure why they need to smell so badly.

Thought I'd show them so you can see I'm not trying to work without proper tools and safe methods.
I have also made some protective sleeves with hose pipe for these when they get used.

Bit gutted that I cannot assemble them yet but I guess it gives me time to familiarize my self with all the kit.

Unsure how much all this was its getting close to 300 tho. Will find out soon so others get to see a rough estimate for full replacement of front suspension With standard parts in 2020.
I will deduct the rear and it might be around 250 ish if you shop around.
Also includes the tools I needed that their are only 2 types of.

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[Mach1]

your picture shows a "right hand" drivers side front Shock Absorber there should be either L or R stamped on the inside of the flange that the drop link bolts to. every things looks OK, looks like you have done your homework and sourced a lot of good quality bargains. Your spring compressors are a decent length, which you will need, the reason why they smell is because the black threaded bolts used on spring compressors have been hardened after machining so they don't strip their threads when under load, after this process they coat them in cheap protective oil to stop them from corrosion.?

 

[Deleted member 31521]

After checking an image on my blog it shows that one is the Left. I'm saying this because it should look the same as in the anti roll bar connecting area will face in the same direction as the one on the photo.
And I know the photo I'm looking at is the right hand side Driver side.
I may be incorrect but I have labeled that one with an L in marker pen.
From what I can see of the L and R there are no signs of any stamp or pointers.
But that area does show orientation.
And they will only install properly in that direction otherwise the. Bolt holes would be in the wrong area.


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[Deleted member 31521]

This is current front right drivers.
And image of what I'm calling R the driver side right strut.

I'm going with the theory that the bolt on parts should be in the same area as no visible markings apart from what I've labeled them as with a dry wipe marker pen.
And as far as I can see if it was mixed up the curve at the top for spring seat would be back to front when installed if it were incorrect.
Because its flat at the inside nearest the wheel inner arch or engine.

This is a useful snap to show me what I'm going to encounter condition of the bolts.
Oh the joys of removing old parts.
I know it will be a real challenge will definitely enjoy this task.

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[Deleted member 31521]

A decent guide showing how to use the ball joint removal tool.
This could help save A lot of swearing and cursing.
And a whole bunch of other things that might happen.



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[Mach1]

Good luck removing the old bolts, plenty of penetrating oil should help, go with your photos of old suspension and put your new assembled unit in same way and you have got it right. I would recommend some new M12 x 1.25 pitch nyloc nuts to replace the old ones you take off. there are two m12 bolts holding the shock Absorber to the steering knuckle. the nuts are cheap this will do both sides.
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Metric-Nylock-Nuts-Grade-8-M4-M5-M6-M8-M10-M12-M14-M16-Coarse-Fine-Pitch/112122513840?hash=item1a1b05c9b0:g:jycAAOxydB1Seml3

 

[Deleted member 31521]

That's a good idea will replace those. I was considering replacing the bolts as well. Can Clean them up with wire brush on the drill. If they really bad I will renew tho.
Because I want to delete as much of the rusted parts as possible. Its not nice to look at and it can spread to other areas quite rapidly.
Have just been watching some safe methods of spring compressing.
What to do and what you should avoid. So that will hopefully keep things safe in that area.
While doing this was thinking about what I could have missed. And one item that I may want to check and eventually replace might be time rod ends.




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[Deleted member 31521]

This is what i'm trying to find. I will measure them tomorrow. not sure if they called pinch bolts would only need 4
HEXAGON HEAD BOLTS PART THREADED HEX BOLT M6 M8 M10 M12 A2 STAINLESS STEEL

These don't match the thread of the ones your showing but they are stainless.
If they are different than these let me know. (As a rough guess i want them to be at least 2 inches long or 6CM)

 

[Mach1]

Fitting stainless steel bolts to a suspension leg is not a bolt I would use, the photograph shows a standard pitch of 1.5. The reason for finer thread pitches which you will find all over the suspension system is they can be tightened up with less travel of the nut and are resistant to vibration (used in performance cars motorbikes etc, as they are proven to work)
The bolts fitted to suspension legs need to be tough 8.8 strength and above, to deal with the load stresses and the constant up and down movement of the suspension leg, so go for a M12 x 1.25 x 60mm Bolts from Engineering supplies, then you wont get ripped off with prices, Use some stainless steel washers and you will be OK.
/www.ebay.co.uk/itm/M12-x-1-25-METRIC-FINE-PITCH-HIGH-TENSILE-HEX-HEAD-BOLT-Z-Y/202930048981?hash=item2f3f92cfd5:g:AtQAAOSw3uteZ4Yu

 

[Deleted member 31521]

Okay I just measure the bolt and its total length is 70mm. So 60mm will be correct for the thread length without the bolt head.
My measurement was rough on the car with digital calipers.
Didn't want to just buy anything and waited because I can see its rather an important part of the system.

They look good and its not out of the way in terms of price to replace these.
Many thanks for explaining that they are of a certain thread pitch. because this I would have missed otherwise.


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[Mach1]

Yes good parts at reasonable prices is always what we need to search for, older cars need updates now and again, so shopping around is important. the lower wish bone also has M12 x 1.25 bolts so I always replace the nuts on these also.

 

[Deleted member 31521]

When i was searching i seen these and they look good to cover areas that people find problematic for rust not sure if they would prevent much in such a location but these are useful and they also make things look more tidy
NUT AND BOLT COVER CAPS BLACK OR WHITE PLASTIC DOME CAP M5 M6 M8 M10 M12 M16 M20

They are available in many sizes. I have used them before the downside is sometimes they don't stick on tightly.
But now that i think about this. They would be idea for wheel nut covers that i have been trying to find an alt for. That is cheap cause they are just plastic covers.
Maybe these will interest other users.

For now tho i will just stick to the basics and maybe decide to add later on.

 

[Mach1]

yes good, these plastic nut covers are used in Industrial assembly units and come in different sizes, good for automotive uses too, just bob a bit of silicone sealant inside them before you put them on and you wont have a problems with them coming off!. kays is a good distributor of bolts and nuts, used them for years recommend them.?

 

[Deleted member 31521]

Right I'm trying to compress the spring atm.
I got it near to fitting then decided one of the compressors had moved or slipped.
Didn't get a good feeling looking at it so I've backed it off.
The shape of these makes it hard to get them squared up across the spring.

How should I place the compressors?
Will show a picture of how I'm doing it from side and top.


Anyways the boots came and they don't fit tightly over the strut at bottom where they should be tight fitting?. They do look really nice tho and everything else seems okay.
Does this matter?

When I put the top strut mount on does the washer go above or below this?

Takes a lot of effort to compress the spring and it really does need to compress a lot to get the strut mount to fit on. I may have been around half an inch from it fitting on first time.
Though the side movement made me panic and let the tension back off.
Because it looked to me like one side might snap or something like that.

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[Deleted member 31521]

Post deleted.

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[Deleted member 31521]

Here is how it looks once I start to tighten I'm almost back to the same area and it does not even look like its compressed any vs the spring behind..
Also one of the compressors is facing opposite direction and that looks odd.

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[Deleted member 31521]

Ran into a slight problem that the cushion is crushed by the spring.
I have had to re do it up a few times. And this is as near as I can get it. Want to know if when the spring was back a cm away would that have self seated on the car.
Now I need compress it again because I want them the same.
You can see the difference below.
I had it how I wanted but the boot was upside down

Eventually I got more comfortable compressing the springs its not for the faint hearted lets say..
All I'm unsure of is the washer. I put it on top of the top mount then the bolt over top of that as this is what it looks like in the manual.
In the end I had to use the impact to help aid compressing the spring. Because it was really taking along time.
I am aware this is not the safest proper method but it worked okay for me.

After doing this I would suggest anyone considering doing a spring compression. To get the one that holds from both sides of the spring, At each end because these seem to look a little better. And will not move around as much. I was re adjusting mine occasionally.
"This is a safety point of view and should not be ignored"

I also need to touch up some minor scratches cause by trial and error.

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[Deleted member 31521]

I would recommend these for others over the single position compressor.
This is something to take note on if you are compressing the spring.
Remember to keep safe wear, gloves goggles and take as much care as possible.
Make sure to read guides and do research.

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[Mach1]

Well done on your first attempt, You can appreciate the dangers of spring compression, and yes the double claw compressors are better for the job, but at least all is done now, rear springs are a cake walk compared to the front.

 

[Deleted member 31521]

What would you say about the nut and washer. Should the washer be directly under the top mount?
Should it be on top I seem to have gone with on top but am not 100% sure with this. the guide says top..
Also do you think i should re-seat that spring again. As it could make better contact with that rubber stop to help aid making the shock work more silently. How it stands i think it might tear it and today I'm having a rest but plan to re do that so if the washer needed moving i will also do that.

Does this happen normally with the cushions?

 

[Mach1]

washers usually go under nuts to help with spreading the load and stop the nut from digging in to the mating surface you tightening onto. the bottom rubber cushions are there to dampen the load of the lower spring they will be fine, as they are under pressure from the spring and also stop the metal to metal contact of the spring against the damper spring housing. so next stage is to make sure when you remove the old units is to clean the underside of the tower support as this will be crudded out and you can then inspect for corrosion and if needed put some metal paint inside the tower before fitting your new suspension struts

 

[Deleted member 31521]

Will certainly be checking the strut towers as this is very near an area that has been welded up on the past.
Have not seen anyone point this out in guides before.
And I would think if cleared out and painted
On inside might prevent a lot of the fallout that is showing on the suspension parts.
Fingers crossed they are in good condition.
I will be returning to the install in a few days when the rain clears up.
Firstly though I want to try re seating that spring so it has a proper cushion before the spring stop this in my mind is something that will reduce chances of squeaks or unwanted noises over bumps and pot holes.

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[Mach1]

Yes, unfortunately this area is commonly overlooked until one day if corrosion is so bad the whole suspension leg comes popping through the top into the engine bay. I vital integral part of the chassis so needs to be kept in satisfactory condition.?

 

[Deleted member 31521]

Have re seated the spring to the area I want now they are both identical.
May want to tighten them up so they have exactly the same amount of thread showing at top.
Its pretty close already.
After the re seat I have also touched up the scratches made by me and what was already present with rustoleum and a fine artists paint brush.
While doing so I also touched up any areas that show bare metal on the base of the strut this was minimal but worth a few mins work.


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[Mach1]

yes a little preparation and attention to details pays off in the long run, Once you have installed the new suspension, you can then look at the lower wishbones these may be easy or the lower ball joint may be rusted in, but you will not know until you get round to this.