Should it stay or should it go???

D

Djdr1veB1

Guest
Hey Guy's

Seriously considering the 1.2 option for my little puppy!

Problem is my mechanical knowledge engine wise is non existent and I don't want to ruin my pride and joy! Mark raved about the 1.2 when i met him but he also modded that with carbs and the like and god knows what else so when i had a go in the red one (very pacey) it prob wasn't a reflection of a standard 1.2 lump! I've gone over countless forums and still am undecided! Is it literally a take one out and 'drop' the other one in???

I really want a bit more performance and a five speed box would probably save me a small fortune in petrol! Would i need to cange the ECU? The mileage of the 1.2 is a bit less too but my ma10 is only 62K! Someone said that the ma12 is less solid??? is this an exageration cos i do pummel mine a tad revs wise!!!

What i'm after is some opinions (Think i know Marks!) and some pro's and con's. Also any actual metod to performing the transfer and what it would entail!!!

I'm Looking to get my car/ bodykit sprayed so the engine could be my coupe de Etat!

P.s how do i go about getting a webber carb
And how hard is it to custom build a s/s zorst system???
 
Its quite easy to get a custom exhaust made, just go to a custom exhaust specialists such as Powerflow etc and they'l make one :)

With regards to the engine, if you want to save money on petrol then wack the 5 speed box on the 1.0 engine! You'l get lower revs at high speeds.

The 1.2 isnt as good as the MA10 when it comes to taking abuse, but on the flip side of the coin, it produces more power. If you're quite a revvy person, i'd be a bit more careful with the right foot, but still consider the transplant.

Everything i think is the same tho, so it would be the case of taking one out and sticking the other in its place.
 
Was thinking about literally getting the s/s pipes to match the originals on the zorst system buying a s/s back box, thought this might be a bit more personalised and cheaper?? Just dunno about stuff like catalytic converters and how to attatch the back end to the engine monifols!!!

So might not be the best idea to drop the 1.2 then as i have stcky feet and love haering my baby purrrrr! "scream" at me!
 
Well the K10 (either engine) doesnt need Cats so you shouldnt worry about that. You could probably leave the current exhaust as it is and just connect it to the Ma12 engine. Its a restrictive exhaust as standard though so if power / performance is your thing, it wouldnt be a bad idea to chuck it all and start from scratch!
 
DJDriveby - Glad to see your still modifying your k10 mate :) The best thing you can do is drop In a 1.2, Everything else will bolt up to the 1.2 so nothing else will need to be changed, My 1.2 has over 110K on it and is still in really good condition, I've had it for ages and its still fine, I'm selling a weber carb if your interested? also when you drove my red super s it wasnt running right and the car i have now (same engine) is much faster,

if we ever get to meet again you can have another go in it and you'll be suprised how much more powerful the 1.2 is compared to the 1.0
 
Cool mate how much for the carb? remember i'm a poor student now!!!
Pm me with a price, and the condition! Do you reckon the 1.2 to will take my riding it???

Sounds thick but how much difference does the webber carb make???
 
Djdr1veB1 said:
Do you reckon the 1.2 to will take my riding it???
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Probably not by the sounds of things :p The ma12's optimum rpm is 5400 whereas the ma10 is 6000 (mine gets taken to 7000 and she loves it)
 
Sounds like your a man after my own heart!!!!

Is there any way of stregthening the 1.2???

I'm leaning towards the 1.2, i want to take my Little ma10 L model and De standardise it! The 1.2 allows me to do the one thing i haven't touched so far and theat's the power sideso with a decent carb, a s/s system and the 1.2 that will be somewhat redressed!!!

Just worried that i might bite off more than i can handle with the engine!!
 
hi dave, the 1.2 is soo much nicer to drive than the 1.0 and a hell of alot more pokey, i will happily fit a 1.2 engine and gearbox for you for a resonable price, you got my number call me if you want to discuss it

:D
 
I give my 1.2 stick all the time and its fine mate, I it may be a weaker block than the 1.0 but it'll still take a lot of abuse,

As for the Carb I bought it brand new for about £180 a year ago, i still have the reciept somewhere, its in perfect working condition, looking for £50?

Mark.
 
did an engine change in pauls k10 on saturday took me 2 and a half hours to get engine and gearbox out and engine and gearbox back in (bloddy gearbox was damn pain!) running like a dream :D
 
Arnold said:
Probably not by the sounds of things :p The ma12's optimum rpm is 5400 whereas the ma10 is 6000 (mine gets taken to 7000 and she loves it)
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Redline on both is at 6000rpm though. If you are going above that, you are both damaging the engine and not using it to it's maximum potential, as you could be getting more wheel torque in the next gear.
 
i find the best time to change gear with the ma12 is about 4800rpm after that its not really pulling much.....
 
Andrew said:
Redline on both is at 6000rpm though. If you are going above that, you are both damaging the engine and not using it to it's maximum potential, as you could be getting more wheel torque in the next gear.
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Yes i've heard that before and in writing i'd agree, but from personal driving experience, i dont believe it ends at 6000. There is power beyond 6000 which is greater than the power you could be achieving in the next gear up doing the lower rpm. You may disagree, but ive done this for the past 20000 miles (not constantly!) and theres absolutly nothing wrong with her...

I just need another ma10 to race against to see if im right or not!
 
Arnold said:
Yes i've heard that before and in writing i'd agree, but from personal driving experience, i dont believe it ends at 6000. There is power beyond 6000 which is greater than the power you could be achieving in the next gear up doing the lower rpm. You may disagree, but ive done this for the past 20000 miles (not constantly!) and theres absolutly nothing wrong with her...

I just need another ma10 to race against to see if im right or not!
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i suggest you race paul then mate took his car out last night with the new ma10 engine in it only done 30k runs beautifully :D although compared to the super s its dman slow! lol
 
theres no point revving the ma10 past 6000, if it makes 50bhp@6000rpm then how are you going to make more power?, unless yuove got a cam. It feels like you are making power because the engine is screaming its nuts off.

Im doing a 1.2 change very soon, ive got the gaskets today so might be doing it on sunday or saturday?? the ma12 dosent feel like the car is struggling so much, it got up to 95 and stayed there and my 1.0 can only do 85 with the wind behind it and its a struggle to do it so it must be better.
 
my orginal ma10 4 speed went of the clock all the time but my higher powered ma10s with a five speed box struggled to get to 95 proabably due to the final drive ratio... i have had 95 from the ma12 drving back from waynes when i picked it up but the car was far from running right, it will be this weekend full service and tune and if i have time replace the ecc inlet with a standard one :D
 
So how fast is the K10 supposed to go my baby sits at a tonne on the clock down the A2 and my mate reckons i was doing 108 as i was matching his clio sport... Will i still be able to do this in a five speed 1.2??? it's not that i race or anything but coming home from college its nice to be able to put your foot down and not feel like a pillark!!!
 
ohc_turbo said:
theres no point revving the ma10 past 6000, if it makes 50bhp@6000rpm then how are you going to make more power?, unless yuove got a cam. It feels like you are making power because the engine is screaming its nuts off.
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Im not just saying it feels faster because its making more noise, thats rediculous, the reason im saying it goes faster above 6000 is because the speedo is still going up! I'l get some exact rpm to speedo figures later.

ohc_turbo said:
Im doing a 1.2 change very soon, ive got the gaskets today so might be doing it on sunday or saturday?? the ma12 dosent feel like the car is struggling so much, it got up to 95 and stayed there and my 1.0 can only do 85 with the wind behind it and its a struggle to do it so it must be better.
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You must have something wrong with your 1.0 as its easily capable of reaching three figures. My ma10 with the 4 speed used to hit 100, and my ma10 with the super s 5 speed hits it even easier!

I think im gonna have to get a GPS speedo and a video camera to prove im not lying!
 
Arnold said:
Im not just saying it feels faster because its making more noise, thats rediculous, the reason im saying it goes faster above 6000 is because the speedo is still going up! I'l get some exact rpm to speedo figures later.



You must have something wrong with your 1.0 as its easily capable of reaching three figures. My ma10 with the 4 speed used to hit 100, and my ma10 with the super s 5 speed hits it even easier!

I think im gonna have to get a GPS speedo and a video camera to prove im not lying!
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lol you come out with some reall ######## sometimes rimmer! lol
 
Arnold said:
You must have something wrong with your 1.0 as its easily capable of reaching three figures. My ma10 with the 4 speed used to hit 100, and my ma10 with the super s 5 speed hits it even easier!
QUOTE]



also muppet if you read it i said i got 3 figures from my 1.0 with a 4 speed but when i changed the engine and put a five speed it barely made 100! plum! im gonna give you digs next time i see you!
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Arnold said:
Im not just saying it feels faster because its making more noise, thats rediculous, the reason im saying it goes faster above 6000 is because the speedo is still going up! I'l get some exact rpm to speedo figures later.
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That's not how it works though. The speedo may still be rising, but it would be rising even faster if you changed into the next gear.
 
Arnold your speedo is obviously out, what is the book time for a ma10's top speed? I bet its not even 90
 
If i recall correctly his speedo was realigned but as I said you are more than welcome to borrow my GPS to test if it is accurate. Just pop over!
 
Calm down boys and girls next you'll be debating who's got the hardest grandad!!!

I Think if arnold wants to go 85 with the wind behind him then that's grand!!!

Personally i would have thought you could get a tonne + easy given a decent run and a bit of a slope, my girls five speed collette doesn't seem to have a great deal of top end but she get's worried driving at 65!!!

If any one wants a nice run, you can hammer it most of the way down the A2 unhindered between chatham and bexley! Great fun!!!

Lot's of flowing slopes and fun hills!!!
 
how comes my t reg k11 CG10DE can only comfortably hold 85 and with the wind behind it down a hill(pedal to matal for 10mins) it WILL just about go to 110.


back to my k10
it probably will do 90mph to 95mph but i would have to have a 5 mile straight level surface, i do run it on 95ron but that shouldnt make any diffrence whatsoever if anything if i put optimax in it will run more crap unless i advance the timing etc.etc.

also i have 14" wheels on mine with larger profile tyres on so my speedo is prob about 3% out as it is, theres no way a 8 valve will match the top speed of the 16valve and my k11 isnt buggered
 
No expert but i can assure you my K10 was doing a tonne over medway bridge about two hours ago!!!
 
My speedo may be out, however even if it was or wasnt, the fact its moving upwards once the rev thingy goes beyond 6000 is still true!

You say i'l get more power from changing to the next gear up, but is that true? We know the optimum figure is 6000rpm / 50bhp, but does anyone know how much the engine is producing at 2000rpm or 7000rpm? When i hit seven and change to the next gear, the engines rpm doesnt drop down as low as it would do if i was changing at 6000rpm. This basically means instead of dropping to 1500 rpm, im changing to 2500rpm (which is producing more power than the 1500rpm) making my car go quicker!

I hope that makes sence. Im gonna read it back and edit it if it doesnt :)
 
Djdr1veB1 said:
I Think if arnold wants to go 85 with the wind behind him then that's grand!!!
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I dont need the wind behind me to get that speed :p. It was OHC who said that
 
Arnold said:
You say i'l get more power from changing to the next gear up, but is that true? We know the optimum figure is 6000rpm / 50bhp, but does anyone know how much the engine is producing at 2000rpm or 7000rpm? When i hit seven and change to the next gear, the engines rpm doesnt drop down as low as it would do if i was changing at 6000rpm. This basically means instead of dropping to 1500 rpm, im changing to 2500rpm (which is producing more power than the 1500rpm) making my car go quicker!
Click to expand...

That mostly is correct reasoning. First, we are looking at torque, not power, as that is what causes acceleration.

We know that it produces 56ftlb at 3600rpm, and that it produces about 43.8ftlb at 6000rpm (using power figure). You can't produce more torque than 56ftlb anywhere, as it is the peak torque figure. It produces 0 torque at 0 rpm, and I think it would be fair to assume it is producing 0 torque at 8000 rpm. So we have 4 points on the torque curve.

Then you have the gear ratios. These otherwise increase or decrease the output torque and also change the speed. So you can plot torque against speed for all 5 gears. From this you find out that the optimum shift point for the MA10, with any of the gearboxes, is just above 6000rpm. Nowhere near as high as 7000rpm.

On top of this, the higher an engine revs, the more wear it will undergo. In my experience of MA10s and MA12s, above 6500rpm they sound really bad, the power starts surging, and oil pressure goes a bit funny. I would avoid it.
 
well said there i think i dont like to push the super s over 5000 absolute max, i love my engine in one peice :D and well lubricated ;)
 
Well if she does blow, it gives me an excuse to get the 1.6 in quicker! lol

I need my speedo verified as according to tonights reading, i hit 62mph in second lol! An impossible figure im sure :)
 
ive got a 4 speed but still the engine runs out of puff at 80? not long untill i put the 1.2 in though, should be seeing 100 then
 
Im surprised you're not seeing 100 from your 4 speed as that is an achievable figure
 
i have never managed to get past 93mph (1.0 4 speed), in my k10. It doesn't seem to have any thing left past 80.
 

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