MSA Catch Tank

Vulture20

Vulture20

Hi Folks

As you will know the MSA has now decreed that all cars need an oil catch tank. Up until now we've been happy with a filter on the breather that used to go into the air filter from the front right of the engine, and the gearbox breather just in air.

I admit I'm being dim, but.....

The tanks I see mostly have two inlets. What are they for? Many have a vent on the top. This seems to require a filter - so do we use the one we have?

What have folk fitted (especially interested if an MSA scrutineer has approved it!) and where?

Cheers
Jools (first outing this year at start of April)
 
I have done two rallies this year with no catch tank and a standard Group A air filter (the one that runs over the bonnet) and no one has said anything, the car passed both times? I did hear about the rule but haven't seen it done on a Micra yet!
 
I had planned to reinstate the closed loop system to avoid the need for a catch can, though this is just my interpretation of the blue book, not actually done it and been scrutineered yet.
 
Yup all cars must have a catch can now. You've got off lightly so farbut the rule will soon be enforced

There's 1 inlet and 1 outlet
In from the engine oil breather.
Out into your air inlet

Its an emissions thing. Catches oil vapour, condensing it and leaving clean air.
Cannot be vented to atmosphere and it can't have 2 inlets from the oil breathers (daft idea anyway)
 
Thanks for the replies. It looks as confusing as I thought! We don't have an airbox just a foam sock. I think I'll call a scrutineer.

Cheers
Jools
 
Didn't think of adding a photo. Its an old one but clear
1394996886631.jpg

Oil catch tanks are very simple things :)
 
Have you inlet pipe to tap into?
It can't vent to atmosphere that's the main problem
I no longer have an air box and tapped into my inlet pipe but you can buy catch tanks with breathers on that use two inlets instead of one in and one out but I'm not sure how they fair with regs
 
Vulture20 said:
Thanks for the pic. My question is that if I don't have an air box, how does it vent?
Click to expand...

for N/A connect one end to the engine cover PCV breather port and the other end at any point between the air filter and before throttle butterfly valve.
if the filter is directly on the TB, perhaps drill and fit a hose port at the back of the TB above the butterfly?
 
I have read the regulation again, and spoken to a scrutineer. The regulation is:
48.2.9. Engine Oil Systems – Unless equipped with a
closed loop system, a Catch tank of at least a one litre
capacity to be incorporated in the oil breather system.

So, I can take the oil breather into a tank and put the filter on the other side. This has been agreed by the scrut.

Sorted - I just need to find space for it now!
 
Got the old girl back today, so here goes a pic of my set-up its like you are planning, and has been scrutineered this year by a MSA scrutineer who i know was checking oil catch tanks as others got caught without them....

BjHzGzJIYAAkrk3.jpg:large

Note the pipe from the left hand breather goes behind the throttle body, and not linked to it.
 
Great pic, thanks! I did ours today and it's a bit different. I'll try to get a picture tomorrow.

In other news Molly went for a shakedown run today. Ignition timing was way off but she still out accelerated the freelander SD4 up to about 60 mph. A couple of wee bits to do (how the hell do you tension the power steering belt without breaking your wrist?) But looking good for Ingliston at the start of April.

Talk about consequential costs? After seeing the youtube clip about HANS devices we decided to go for them. About £600 the pair. Existing helmets have no posts so new helmets as well. New helmets are peltor compatible, so new intercom required. (Anyone want a terratrip middle whatever level with open face sets and practice headsets?). Add it up. £1500 won't give much change.

However, I rally with my son. I'd never forgive myself if he was neck injured and I'd decided not to spend the cash.


Cheers
Jools
 
Vulture20 said:
However, I rally with my son. I'd never forgive myself if he was neck injured and I'd decided not to spend the cash.
Click to expand...
This bit sums it up for me
Also begs the question of why make such life protecting equipment so expensive
I understand research and development etc etc... but I can't help but think pocket lining is a big factor
 
Hi Matt

You may have seen my reques ton MSC earlier, I need to add a catch tank to the rally car before Saturdays rally, but looking at your photo I am a bit confussed. You have both left and right connections on the rocker cover going to the Catch Tank, what did you do with the other end on the left side which goes down under the carb?

Regards

Peter

SuperUno said:
Got the old girl back today, so here goes a pic of my set-up its like you are planning, and has been scrutineered this year by a MSA scrutineer who i know was checking oil catch tanks as others got caught without them....

BjHzGzJIYAAkrk3.jpg:large

Note the pipe from the left hand breather goes behind the throttle body, and not linked to it.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
I'll try to get a picture tomorrow.

In other news Molly went for a shakedown run today. Ignition timing was way off but she still out accelerated the freelander SD4 up to about 60 mph. A couple of wee bits to do (how the hell do you tension the power steering belt without breaking your wrist?) But looking good for Ingliston at the start of April.

Talk about consequential costs? After seeing the youtube clip about HANS devices we decided to go for them. About £600 the pair. Existing helmets have no posts so new helmets as well. New helmets are peltor compatible, so new intercom required. (Anyone want a terratrip middle whatever level with open face sets and practice headsets?). Add it up. £1500 won't give much change.

However, I rally with my son. I'd never forgive myself if he was neck injured and I'd decided not to spend the cash.


Cheers
Jools[/quote]

Hi Jools

have you a picture of your Catch Tank set up?

Regards

Peter
 
Sorry. only just saw this - but I've also seen that you got it sorted.

I still have the loop from below the manifold to the left rear of the cover, so I just take the front right breather to one entry on the catch tank and have a filter on the other. Only 2 connections on the tank.

Cheers
Jools
 
Thanks to all that replied about the catch tank. The car passed scrutineering anyway and successfully finished the D'isis rally. The car ran well even though we were completely out classed, but brought back fond memories even though a lot slower and front wheel drive compared to my escort days.
 
SuperUno said:
Got the old girl back today, so here goes a pic of my set-up its like you are planning, and has been scrutineered this year by a MSA scrutineer who i know was checking oil catch tanks as others got caught without them....

BjHzGzJIYAAkrk3.jpg:large

Note the pipe from the left hand breather goes behind the throttle body, and not linked to it.
Click to expand...

Matt do you know which filter it is that fits the group A airbox?
 
Going to try this weekend, thought using the crank case windage may aid removing air...if that makes sense, keeping atmospheric pressure in the crank case. I fear that there might be a significant amount of oil shooting up there? might be a bad place as oil may exit the engine too easily. high revs would no doubt kick up a stink/
 
h701micra said:
Yea man like a vacuum effect. Should work out
Click to expand...
other andy said that old cars used to pipe a feed to beneath the car to act as a vacuum as wind rushes by it... not his wording, he had something which sounded intelligent. like use that instead of a filter on the catch, will draw gases our crankcase. Also I did see some catch cans with wirewool in, are the official ones like that?
 
SirChris said:
other andy said that old cars used to pipe a feed to beneath the car to act as a vacuum as wind rushes by it... not his wording, he had something which sounded intelligent. like use that instead of a filter on the catch, will draw gases our crankcase. Also I did see some catch cans with wirewool in, are the official ones like that?
Click to expand...
Yea the difference in air pressure draws it out, its where my second pipe ended up after I pit the carbon air box on as I had no connection point on the inlet tubing.
Boost will end up blowing it back through the can into the c cover

Yea man, they have a mesh inside them to catch oil vapour, if the catch can isn't cooled then the oil doesn't condensate enough and carries on through tge outlets without mesh, not a problem if your cars pipe is routed below anyway :)
 
h701micra said:
Yea the difference in air pressure draws it out, its where my second pipe ended up after I pit the carbon air box on as I had no connection point on the inlet tubing.
Boost will end up blowing it back through the can into the c cover

Yea man, they have a mesh inside them to catch oil vapour, if the catch can isn't cooled then the oil doesn't condensate enough and carries on through tge outlets without mesh, not a problem if your cars pipe is routed below anyway :)
Click to expand...
yeah goes to the wheel arch... then i realised it vents on the floor in front of the wheel..watadick
 
SirChris said:
no one thought about venting crankcase to catch can as well?
Click to expand...

Just to revive this - pretty sure the works cars did:
DSC00531_edited-1-1920w.jpg


Couple more photos here if interested:
www.bgmsport.com

Nissan Micra Kit Car – P5 NME

BGMsport is owned and run by Ian Gwynne, who has been in the car industry for over 35 years. Our service's offer expertise and knowledge in the restoration, recommissioning, enhancement, maintenance and preparation of rare and unique, historic and classic rally, race and road cars.
www.bgmsport.com www.bgmsport.com

Ta
 

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