Leaking/Burning Oil
- Thread starter Turtle
- Start date
Its done 123000 and I have on occasions revved it a lil'e bit... :blush: but thats only since ive used for the past 6 months. (after passing).
I guess i'll get under it and give it all a good clean then I'll be able to see where it is leaking from.
The oil on the bottom is pretty black and sludgy really... what does this mean?
Its not overfilled now, no.
Thanks everyone, appreciate it!
I guess i'll get under it and give it all a good clean then I'll be able to see where it is leaking from.
The oil on the bottom is pretty black and sludgy really... what does this mean?
Its not overfilled now, no.
Thanks everyone, appreciate it!
if its sludgy, then you can rule out out transmission.
as well as the sump gasket, it could be the oil filter rubber o-ring not making a good seal....if the filter is dead old?
I reccon you should do a routine oil change (including a new filter) if you havent done one in the last 6 months.....you can check out all of your seals and give things a good clean up like you sugested after oil change...get a good look at the surfaces on the sump drain plug nut and hole too....
Oh also remove your spark plugs and make sure they are light grey/brown...if any of them are wet-oily then you are burning....dont be confused with dry-black sooty plug tips as this shows a different problem
as well as the sump gasket, it could be the oil filter rubber o-ring not making a good seal....if the filter is dead old?
I reccon you should do a routine oil change (including a new filter) if you havent done one in the last 6 months.....you can check out all of your seals and give things a good clean up like you sugested after oil change...get a good look at the surfaces on the sump drain plug nut and hole too....
Oh also remove your spark plugs and make sure they are light grey/brown...if any of them are wet-oily then you are burning....dont be confused with dry-black sooty plug tips as this shows a different problem
H
Herr_spl1ff
Guest
As Sammo says, check your plugs. DON'T clean the oil yet! Look to see what's covered in oil. Is it mainly under the filter, around one of the enine gaskets, one or both ends of the sump, all over the sump or all over the underside of the car? Then you can look at what's wrong as you know where the problem is.
OK. I'll check the plugs and take some photos of the oil on sunday.
Then i'll buy some new oil and filter and do a change next week as this hasnt been done since the end of summer. I'll clean everything up underneath too.
When I change the oil do you think I should flush it out with the special flushing (thin) oil before putting new oil in. Or will this do more damage than good? fwn
The oil ive been putting in is the standard stuff whatever the bloke says in the shop. Although the last 2 times ive topped it up (1 litre each time) with oil from different cars, same type of oil but a different grade. This is probably a bad idea, but its the only oil I had handy :glance:
Thanks for your advice guys!
Then i'll buy some new oil and filter and do a change next week as this hasnt been done since the end of summer. I'll clean everything up underneath too.
When I change the oil do you think I should flush it out with the special flushing (thin) oil before putting new oil in. Or will this do more damage than good? fwn
The oil ive been putting in is the standard stuff whatever the bloke says in the shop. Although the last 2 times ive topped it up (1 litre each time) with oil from different cars, same type of oil but a different grade. This is probably a bad idea, but its the only oil I had handy :glance:
Thanks for your advice guys!
fox1983
Deactivated Account
one thing dont ever use any oil other than new and corect grade and never mix grades as the car will burn it off and it will cause damage and second it was smoking slightly but not exsessivly when u left mine also get ur tappets checked as it was sounding rough and very tappy.
u can also get a garage to get a compresion and pressure check done which aint to expensive which rules out burning oil
but first do oil change make sure its all drained out then put new fresh oil in changing filter as u will probably have contaminated it if u used old oil keep an eye on levels and if it drops check for leaks worst thing that it can be is leaking valves/rings or broken ring then ur best bet is get a new engine like i did as its more expensive to have this sorted as it is to get an engine from a scrap yard and change it urself but like i said mate do these things first and should be ok
u can also get a garage to get a compresion and pressure check done which aint to expensive which rules out burning oil
but first do oil change make sure its all drained out then put new fresh oil in changing filter as u will probably have contaminated it if u used old oil keep an eye on levels and if it drops check for leaks worst thing that it can be is leaking valves/rings or broken ring then ur best bet is get a new engine like i did as its more expensive to have this sorted as it is to get an engine from a scrap yard and change it urself but like i said mate do these things first and should be ok
S
Slim
Guest
whats all this about using the correct grade and not mixing them
i use the incorrect grade (0w40) in both my cars and they dont use a drop.
I've also used mixed oils before as a temporary measure to changing the very black oil after i gotmy carina GTR, and it didnt loose any of that or smoke.
I always though that oil was burnt because the engine was wearing out, not just because the wrong grade of oil was used.
i use the incorrect grade (0w40) in both my cars and they dont use a drop.
I've also used mixed oils before as a temporary measure to changing the very black oil after i gotmy carina GTR, and it didnt loose any of that or smoke.
I always though that oil was burnt because the engine was wearing out, not just because the wrong grade of oil was used.
Well Ive only topped it up with the incorrect grade.
Right, so planned work....
-take photos
-check spark plugs
-change oil/filter
-clean engine bay
-adjust tappets
-check timing
And we'll go from there... :glance:
One more thing... your opinions of flushing out the oil? Is this an old fashioned thing to do? Will it be bad for such an old engine?
Right, so planned work....
-take photos
-check spark plugs
-change oil/filter
-clean engine bay
-adjust tappets
-check timing
And we'll go from there... :glance:
One more thing... your opinions of flushing out the oil? Is this an old fashioned thing to do? Will it be bad for such an old engine?
Andrew
Club Member
Too thin an oil will get burnt or lost quicker. Mixing grades and types is not recommended.
Reading the plugs - the way most people do it doesn't really tell you much unless there is a serious problem. You need to go for a full throttle drive and turn the engine off without idling to see what is really going on.
1 lite in 400 miles is a lot of oil. Place a sheet of paper under the car overnight, and check for any drips on that. But that amount of oil should be obvious, it will leave traces in the engine bay.
I think it's far more likely that the engine is burning oil, especially considering it's age.
Reading the plugs - the way most people do it doesn't really tell you much unless there is a serious problem. You need to go for a full throttle drive and turn the engine off without idling to see what is really going on.
1 lite in 400 miles is a lot of oil. Place a sheet of paper under the car overnight, and check for any drips on that. But that amount of oil should be obvious, it will leave traces in the engine bay.
I think it's far more likely that the engine is burning oil, especially considering it's age.
fox1983
Deactivated Account
one thing andrew, sorry for the lack of punctuation im dislexic and find on things like this its easyer for me not to use any, otherwise il be here for hours writing one message.
2 slim i was always told it was a bad idea to mix oils and as andrew said thinner oils will get burnt /lost quicker especialy if it is burning oil , the main point i was trying to make was the way he worded it was as if he was using old used oil which is what i was sayin was bad
ps andrew this has just taken me 20 mins to write just to punctuate it for u.
this is not ment in a rude way
2 slim i was always told it was a bad idea to mix oils and as andrew said thinner oils will get burnt /lost quicker especialy if it is burning oil , the main point i was trying to make was the way he worded it was as if he was using old used oil which is what i was sayin was bad
ps andrew this has just taken me 20 mins to write just to punctuate it for u.
this is not ment in a rude way
S
Slim
Guest
we'll let you off then paul.
If the engine's burning oil, then yes, a thin oil will get burnt up quicker, but if the engine's in top shape it wouldnt burn it anyway
If the engine's burning oil, then yes, a thin oil will get burnt up quicker, but if the engine's in top shape it wouldnt burn it anyway
I dont think flushing will help that much...but do another fresh change in 6 months
Mixing grades means that you effectively loose what grade you are using (unles you do a volumetric titration evey time you mix!!!)..
in my oppinion, you should stick with a full sump of the same correct grade. The oil is specified by the engine designers so that when it gets up to temperature it becomes just-thin-enough to get in ALL the nooks and crannies (oilways), but stays thick-enough to provide effective lubrication (protection) for the bearing(s).
Use too thin and ultimately to will ovwrheat the bearings as the lubrication will not be effective enough.
Use too thick and the oil wont be able to get to all the bits it needs to get to, again ultimately overheat.
If you have an emergency then yes, top up with something close but (personnaly) i would replace the lot when I got the problem fixed (For the sake of a few quid).
Mixing grades means that you effectively loose what grade you are using (unles you do a volumetric titration evey time you mix!!!)..
in my oppinion, you should stick with a full sump of the same correct grade. The oil is specified by the engine designers so that when it gets up to temperature it becomes just-thin-enough to get in ALL the nooks and crannies (oilways), but stays thick-enough to provide effective lubrication (protection) for the bearing(s).
Use too thin and ultimately to will ovwrheat the bearings as the lubrication will not be effective enough.
Use too thick and the oil wont be able to get to all the bits it needs to get to, again ultimately overheat.
If you have an emergency then yes, top up with something close but (personnaly) i would replace the lot when I got the problem fixed (For the sake of a few quid).
S
Slim
Guest
i think with flushing oil, it depends how gunked up the engine has become.
i think its still recomended if your changing from a mineral oil to a synthetic oil but its not realy necassary. Saying that, i always use a flushing supliment before i change my oil.
i think its still recomended if your changing from a mineral oil to a synthetic oil but its not realy necassary. Saying that, i always use a flushing supliment before i change my oil.
Hi everyone, just an update after the work I did today.
The first thing I did was drive it up our ramps and had a decent look underneath, and took some photos. I wasnt really concentrating on what I was taking photos of, so hopefully I covered everything under the car.
With the engine on idle I also took a photo of the exhaust fumes, this was once the temperature gague was off the cold (pictures 1 and 2).
Having warmed it up, I drained the oil and spent an hour wrestling with the filter... why do those things never come off easily! :doh:
Put the new filter on, and approx 2.7 litres of oil till it seemed to be at the correct level. With the fresh oil there is no smoke at all on idle. :glare:
Dunno if these photos can tell anyone anything?
Next I checked spark plugs... (next post)... and all is not well (the suspense!! :ghostface )
The first thing I did was drive it up our ramps and had a decent look underneath, and took some photos. I wasnt really concentrating on what I was taking photos of, so hopefully I covered everything under the car.
With the engine on idle I also took a photo of the exhaust fumes, this was once the temperature gague was off the cold (pictures 1 and 2).
Having warmed it up, I drained the oil and spent an hour wrestling with the filter... why do those things never come off easily! :doh:
Put the new filter on, and approx 2.7 litres of oil till it seemed to be at the correct level. With the fresh oil there is no smoke at all on idle. :glare:
Dunno if these photos can tell anyone anything?
Next I checked spark plugs... (next post)... and all is not well (the suspense!! :ghostface )
Attachments
The Plugs
OK so next I checked the spark plug, as advised, to see if we can get any extra clues to my oil problem.
The images arnt great, too dark really and my lens was a bit dirty. Hover over a thumbnail to see which spark plug it is. I took the photos while the plugs were in the spanner wrench thingymadoogle so thats what the big metal thing is...
The one which concerned me most was number 3. This one appears to be fairly oily at the top, and this suggests oil is getting past the piston rings right?
The rest were fairly good (4 was the best...) although the dust was slightly darker than the nice light brown powdery stuff the haynes manual goes on about...
OK so next I checked the spark plug, as advised, to see if we can get any extra clues to my oil problem.
The images arnt great, too dark really and my lens was a bit dirty. Hover over a thumbnail to see which spark plug it is. I took the photos while the plugs were in the spanner wrench thingymadoogle so thats what the big metal thing is...
The one which concerned me most was number 3. This one appears to be fairly oily at the top, and this suggests oil is getting past the piston rings right?
The rest were fairly good (4 was the best...) although the dust was slightly darker than the nice light brown powdery stuff the haynes manual goes on about...
Attachments
Just a few other notes. One of the pictures in the oil changing post shows a worn piece of rubber... I dont think its got anything to do with the oil system, but is it important? (something to do with the gear lever linkage, I think)
Also would accidentally leaving the choke out for 40 miles on the motorway
grinning: ) cause engine/oil problems? :doh:
Also would accidentally leaving the choke out for 40 miles on the motorway
grinning: ) cause engine/oil problems? :doh:
Ok the fact that is has any oil on it at all is bad news. It should be dry and clean like in umm.. well none of them look good actually lol! Its unlikely to be a head problem, (but it can be in some cases) more likely to be piston rings.. I would now go looking for a replacment engine..
Fordy
Ex. Club Member
personally i would put some new spark plugs in and try it for a while then take them out to see if theres any oil on them, as the oil on the spark plug could just be left over from when the engine was burning it,
you dont have anything to lose either way, cause you can put the new spark plugs into the new engine if its needed
you dont have anything to lose either way, cause you can put the new spark plugs into the new engine if its needed
Turtle,
Your pictures and info are good clues! Thanks for posting them
I am with Fordy on this one....give em a clean up or get new and check them again after a week or two of use.
I realise that the pics are dark, but it seems to me that there are no plugs with oil on the parts that protrude into the combustion chamber.
Your No 2 & 3 may be darker, but not excessively darker than 1 & 4. My engine is perfectly healthy from an oil and fuel efficiency point of view and my 2 & 3 plugs are darker than my 1 & 4. I wouldn’t worry about that too much.
The blackness on your plug tips looks more like 'gum' to me. If you’ve got this much gum on 7 month plugs, then you must be the world record gummiest cylinders holder....lol
Also, your No 3 plug is shiny & oily, but not on the centre electrode insulator.....??hmmmm
I panicked on a routine plug check last year. My No 3 plug was well oiled up, but when I looked closer, the bits that protrude into the combustion chamber were dry and healthy! As it turns out....No 3 plug is directly below the oil filler cap! In my opinion, this oil is more likely to have come from a spill-over or miss when you have been topping up. If this is the case, the oil will sit in the plug well forever as there’s no drain holes in the plug wells .....If you still have the plugs out...some well illuminated photos would be ACE.
Interesting though, after your oil clean, the exhaust smoke reduced...this does suggest burning. If you are burning it, then it can be piston rings, valve guide seals or cylinder head gasket.
There does seem to be a hell of a lot of old oil on the underside. I would clean this as best you can now, and see if you can find where this is coming from over the next few days.
Thinking from a different angle:
Are there any signs if 'rust' in the plug earth electrode (the hooked bit)?
When you drained the old oil, was it jet black or did it have any light brown stuff/ bits floating around? Or any pools of water in the oil? Is your coolant level been / is OK?
Is your running temperature normal?
Hell!...sorry for all that its almost a page full!
Your pictures and info are good clues! Thanks for posting them
I am with Fordy on this one....give em a clean up or get new and check them again after a week or two of use.
I realise that the pics are dark, but it seems to me that there are no plugs with oil on the parts that protrude into the combustion chamber.
Your No 2 & 3 may be darker, but not excessively darker than 1 & 4. My engine is perfectly healthy from an oil and fuel efficiency point of view and my 2 & 3 plugs are darker than my 1 & 4. I wouldn’t worry about that too much.
The blackness on your plug tips looks more like 'gum' to me. If you’ve got this much gum on 7 month plugs, then you must be the world record gummiest cylinders holder....lol
Also, your No 3 plug is shiny & oily, but not on the centre electrode insulator.....??hmmmm
I panicked on a routine plug check last year. My No 3 plug was well oiled up, but when I looked closer, the bits that protrude into the combustion chamber were dry and healthy! As it turns out....No 3 plug is directly below the oil filler cap! In my opinion, this oil is more likely to have come from a spill-over or miss when you have been topping up. If this is the case, the oil will sit in the plug well forever as there’s no drain holes in the plug wells .....If you still have the plugs out...some well illuminated photos would be ACE.
Interesting though, after your oil clean, the exhaust smoke reduced...this does suggest burning. If you are burning it, then it can be piston rings, valve guide seals or cylinder head gasket.
There does seem to be a hell of a lot of old oil on the underside. I would clean this as best you can now, and see if you can find where this is coming from over the next few days.
Thinking from a different angle:
Are there any signs if 'rust' in the plug earth electrode (the hooked bit)?
When you drained the old oil, was it jet black or did it have any light brown stuff/ bits floating around? Or any pools of water in the oil? Is your coolant level been / is OK?
Is your running temperature normal?
Hell!...sorry for all that its almost a page full!
SammoHung said:
Will do this soon.
SammoHung said:
I don't really know anything about this? What does it mean? It was suggested to me that I should redex (decoke) the engine. Good/bad idea? Its never been done. Ever. Ever Ever.
SammoHung said:
Yeah oil has been spilled down there, so I'll clean it out and take some decent photos.
SammoHung said:
The car seems to be running much better (perhaps just my imagination/placebo) since changing the oil, with no signs of smoke on idle. I sure hope my engine is OK.
SammoHung said:
All cleaned now, so I'll keep an eye on the underneath..... No no rust or anything. Will take some better photos.
SammoHung said:
Jet black with a little sediment at the bottom of the oil tray, seemed very normal. No sign of water and the coolant is ok most of the time. Car runs at the right temperature all the time, certainly never very hot.
SammoHung said:
Thanks for your advice, I really appreciate that. My advice to you, download "Teenage Dirtbag" and relive 2001. :grinning: (no relavence to anything.)
Turtle said:
haha...lol
Well the good news is that is sounds like you can rule out any head gasket wories...(no rust on plugs, coolant OK...old oil not contamminated etc)
Try not to let any crud drop into the cyclinder while you are cleaning the oil out...its a bit tricky.
Yes, de-coke-ing disloves gum..I'm not sure how effective it is at removing all of the gum though...i gues one treatment just reduces it.. I did a redex "full engine wash" LOL read the label on the bottle for more details....and it was hillarious...I got redex everywere (squirted when i cranked the engine over while sloshing)...and had a slight (MASSIVE) task burning it all out...I had the white smoke stage-effects for god knows how long....good job the police didnt see me on the roads burning off the last of the white smoke...HAHA wacky-racers!
Gumming/coking ain't related to the oil problem anyway, so I wouldn't bother myself with it (having experienced the white smoke blues)...
SammoHung said:
http://www.micra.org.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=3939&d=1145634347
The centre electrode does have oil on it as far as I see. It wont be as much as it runs hotter. You are more concerned by the outer ring anyway since this is more likely to represent the combuston chamber.
If it does look like this, it certaintly can be the head as I have experienced in the past. In anycase, if the car blows out smoke visibly in any sense i.e. after rolling down a hill, or idle for 10mins then accelerating, the engine needs quite urgent attention. Quite often new piston rings will fix any burning oil on a K10, nothing else needed, however, its likely the rest of the engine will be in a bad way as well.
At 123000 miles the engine is more than likely going to be a little bit tired anyway, it probably will take as much time and cash to sort out than if you just replaced the engine with a lower milage one, and you could even push up the performance by fitting a 1200, 1l of oil every 400 miles is an awful lot of oil to use, that alone will cost a fortune if using good quality oil and come MOT time it would probably fail with that much oil contamination around the engine.
The 1l in 400 miles was the worst yet, after driving to brands hatch and hertfordshire the previous week.
Since then its been normal, oil level has stayed the same. I'll clean the plugs and just keep an eye on it for now.
I have done the redex thing before on my dads crx... seen the smoke, laughed at the reaction when you shift down... :laugh: I'll probably do it on this car soon.
Since then its been normal, oil level has stayed the same. I'll clean the plugs and just keep an eye on it for now.
I have done the redex thing before on my dads crx... seen the smoke, laughed at the reaction when you shift down... :laugh: I'll probably do it on this car soon.
