How to remove K11 AUTOMATIC Starter Motor?

[NickNick]

Hello,

I am having real fun trying to get the Starter Motor out of my K11 Automatic. grr

Those of you who are familiar will know that the starter motor is located very unhelpfully underneath the inlet manifold and is only accessible from under the car. To make a difficult job downright impossible, they have located the bolts that secure it to the engine casing, recessed and hidden behind the body of the motor in a gap that is too narrow for hands or even a socket (trying to find the bolt blind).

I think I have only 2 options left. Lift the engine and get to it - probably how they assembled it in the factory. Or, removed all the inlet manifold etc and expose the starter motor from the top.

Before I do this - has anyone got experience of this job please???

 

[getawaycar]

Take the battery and battery tray out.

I've done a few but cant remember there being any real problem.
Try a 3/8" deep socket (14mm if I remember correctly) and wobbly extension.

Remember there is that stupid Y shaped bracket under the inlet to take off too.

And the wires are easier to remove with the starter fitted than they are with it waggling about!

 

[NickNick]

Hi - I think the battery tray out option would only help with the manual transmission as on the auto it is not located anywhere near the battery. The Y-Shaped bracket under the inlet manifold has been removed to help get a socket onto the electrical connections but still stuck on how to get access to the rest (I'm not sure if it has 2 or 3 holes in the casting)

 

[getawaycar]

They are pretty much in the same place.
Removing the battery tray allows you plenty of space to get a ratchet in.
The bolts go thru the gearbox into the starter. 2 of them.
With the battery tray out you should have enough space to put your hand rount the back to support the starter when you take the 2nd bolt out the last few threads.

 

[NickNick]

Ah - so are the other bolts put in from the gearbox end then? I found one from under the car, the lowest one, which went through the lower starter motor flange and then into the gearbox.
If they are from the other side, that'd explain why I could not see anything from looking under the car from drivers side to gearbox.
I'll have a look tomorrow when it's light!

Thanks for your help in advance:grinning:

 

[NickNick]

Ok so I found the other bolt, as you say it's nestled in under al the pipes on the top of the gearbox next to the engine casing. It's the rear most of the two that are there. I have no managed to remove the starter motor.

I have a question about how to test it now please. It has two connections for the solenoid, one small, one large. If I connect a battery to them, nothing happens. However if I make a circuit by connecting the small terminal and the other to the casing then it shoots out and spins up slowly. The symptom in the car was that it 'chattered' and didn't turn the car over. PS - I have already fitted a new battery.

So am I testing it ok? Granted its not under load so whilst it may spin freely out of the engine, it may not once installed. Just wanting to be sure before I spend £75 on a new motor.

 

[getawaycar]

Use jump leads!

Connect the red one to the large terminal on the solenoid. When you touch the other against the body of the starter motor it should burst into life!

Might have a decent 2nd hand one here. If you have the part off post some pics or PM me the part number. My 2nd hand ones arent £75!

 

[NickNick]

Ok thanks. I just bench tested the starter motor via the solenoid connections and an earth and it all works fine.fwn

So now I just checked the wiring and I get 12.6V at the battery. 12.2V at the starter solenoid when I turn the ignition key so this would seem enough.

Now I'm puzzled what to do next as the battery, wiring and starter motor seem to be working fine. I may just try refitting but I've fixed nothing so it'll surely break down again even if I do get it started.

 

[frank]

Ok thanks. I just bench tested the starter motor via the solenoid connections and an earth and it all works fine.fwn

So now I just checked the wiring and I get 12.6V at the battery. 12.2V at the starter solenoid when I turn the ignition key so this would seem enough.

Now I'm puzzled what to do next as the battery, wiring and starter motor seem to be working fine. I may just try refitting but I've fixed nothing so it'll surely break down again even if I do get it started

faulty inhibitor switch maybe ?

 

[NickNick]

Frank,

Thanks for the reply. Is this likely to cause the clicking I hear from the starter motor? I'd have thought that the switch was either working or not and it doesn't seem to matter if I am in Park or Neutral.

 

[frank]

Frank,

Thanks for the reply. Is this likely to cause the clicking I hear from the starter motor? I'd have thought that the switch was either working or not and it doesn't seem to matter if I am in Park or Neutral.

a constant clicking, or 1 click nick ?

 

[NickNick]

Constant clicking. Like a little machine gun.

 

[frank]

Constant clicking. Like a little machine gun.

my guess would be low voltage (under load) or dirty connection personally

 

[getawaycar]

When you have the starter on the bench it operates without any load. When its fitted it has an engine to turn over. If its on its way out it may work on the bench but not when fitted.

Youc could also have earth problems. When you have the starter connected to a battery with jump leads it gets a decent connection. If the circuit is breaking down on the car the starter may get enough power to operate the soleniod (probably the clicking noise) but not the motor. A good way to check the earth connection is (with the starter fitted) connect a jump lead from the battery negative to the starter housing. If it helps the problem you have a broken or corroded earth cable. You should be able to trace it back to the body and engine mountings now you have your battery tray out.

Personally I would check the earth cable visually. You are looking for badly corroded terminals or mounting bolts. Try removing the earth cable and cleaning the connections back to bright metal. When you rebuild it give them a coating of vaseline (dont use copper grease, it doesnt conduct electricity!) Stick it back together and give it a try. If its better, you have won a watch! If not you can safely assume its the starter, which will take no time to remove as you have had the practice!

If the inhibitor switch or relay was faulty you may get a light, fast ticking from the relay but if it sounds quite loud and its coming from under the bonnet then I'd say it was the solenoid.

 

[NickNick]

Thanks Frank, all help gratefully received.

Would the under voltage be caused by a fault in the starter motor solenoid? I've measured at the solenoid and you get a healthy 12.5 v and also nice clean ,uninterrupted 12v from the ignition line. I can only think of changing the starter motor to make sure it is not that - expensive but the only way to be sure. I'd love to take it to an auto electrician but they are few and far between these days.

 

[NickNick]

Sorry getawaycar, I missed your post as I didn't refresh the page. All good stuff for me to check tmrw before I plump for the motor. I'll keep you posted.

Thanks all for your continued help(Y)

 

[NickNick]

No progress today

Took starter motor to an Auto Electrician who load tested it and said it was ok, a bit noisy but working. I don't feel like forking out for a new one now, not if it is not likely to fix it. Mulling over next step.

 

[getawaycar]

Refit it and try the earth thing with the jump lead!

 

[NickNick]

Yep -that's the first thing I'll try tmrw morning. Thanks.

 

[NickNick]

Update.

Starter motor cleaned up as best I can, running well outside of engine. Installed this morning as well as a general clean and shine of all connections I could find including earths, batteries and terminals to the starter.

First start - fine
Second start - fine

Took for a drive, stopped. Didn't start.grr same issue, machine gunning solenoid

Fitted new battery, no change. Recovery called. He put massive battery pack on, still the same. His verdict was battery = fine. Soleoid = Kaput.

I think the only step now is a new motor & solenoid to be sure. Best quote is £95 from Wes Lancs Auto's (Recon unit).

 

[getawaycar]

I thought the auto electrician tested it?

 

[NickNick]

Yep - he caught it on a good day. It does work occasionally , then just can't cope and stops.

 

[NickNick]

Just to close this one down.

New Starter Motor fitted today and worked once then had intermittent start fault similar to before although not exactly the same. Found that on my frequent disconnections of battery I had loosened the main -ve terminal clamp to the main earth cable so that a spark would jump on cranking the engine. Fixed this and so far 12 trouble free starts! Fingers crossed the new starter motor hangs on in there!

Thanks for all your help