Hi, got my engine rebuilt by engineering shop , cg13 with cg10 pistons, high lift cams etc.. Put it in and after and hour of driving temp shot up and steam puffing out oil cap, dip stick and rocker cover vents, should the head been torqued more than factory settings ? Has my head lifted? Mayo down back of engine block, any advice would be great thanks
Headgasket problems!!!
- Thread starter Finto_GX
- Start date
pollyp
Club Member
water out the cold exhaust or after standing for awhile is normal built up condensation, should clear after a long cruise. black dripping water is just water vapour picking up old soot from pipes. I'd only worry if it continues to steam/smoke after a long good hot blast on a warm day.
first diagnose if it's a failed HG.
- check temp sensors terminal pins r clean.
- remove temp gauge sensor & ecu coolant sensor & test they're within spec resistances.
- make sure after changing coolant system that it's been fully bled, heater dial set fully hot, rad brimmed with cap removed, start engine & hold 2k till it goes 82c and thermostat opens and bubbles purge, keeping it brimmed at all times, keep going till fan runs on/off 3 times, blip occasionally to further nudge the bubbles out the system.
- with the system fully bled n hot, blip the engine few times n spot if it bubbles soon after each blip constantly, which could mean a blown fire-ring.
- a more accurate test would be to get garage to test the bubbles in coolant for monoxide to verify it's a HG failure.
if HG failed it could be:
surfaces wasn't precisely flat or checked,
wasn't clean or dry,
head bolts & threads not fully cleaned,
wasn't torqued to factory spec in factory procedure
have a word with the shop.
first diagnose if it's a failed HG.
- check temp sensors terminal pins r clean.
- remove temp gauge sensor & ecu coolant sensor & test they're within spec resistances.
- make sure after changing coolant system that it's been fully bled, heater dial set fully hot, rad brimmed with cap removed, start engine & hold 2k till it goes 82c and thermostat opens and bubbles purge, keeping it brimmed at all times, keep going till fan runs on/off 3 times, blip occasionally to further nudge the bubbles out the system.
- with the system fully bled n hot, blip the engine few times n spot if it bubbles soon after each blip constantly, which could mean a blown fire-ring.
- a more accurate test would be to get garage to test the bubbles in coolant for monoxide to verify it's a HG failure.
if HG failed it could be:
surfaces wasn't precisely flat or checked,
wasn't clean or dry,
head bolts & threads not fully cleaned,
wasn't torqued to factory spec in factory procedure
have a word with the shop.
pollyp
Club Member
is the steam there after a long drive once everythings warmed up?
constant steam out the warm/hot exhaust and/or bubbling coolant tank could be blown fire-ring.
abit of steam/vapour out the oil cap is norm cos some H20 is byproduct of combustion, unless u have alot of blowby.
faulty temp gauge sensor will just make the gauge itself mis-read.
faulty ecu coolant sensor reading too low will make the ecu run too rich n sooty.
faulty ecu coolant sensor reading too high will make the rad fan turn on frequently.
engine/coolant temp is mainly governed by the thermostat. remove & check that it still works in hot water, check upper pipes hot, check the rad also gets hot and not blocked, check fan works
checking spark plug appearance, piston top appearance, cylinder compression will tell alot.
unless it has so much compression ratio till it detonates, which creates it's own major issues,
a standard HG with perfectly flat & clean faces, torqued properly to factory spec has easily withstood my stock cg13de compression with additional 10psi turbo on past trackdays so should be able to withstand ur ratio.
the genuine victor reinz HG nissan uses is stronger than cheapo ebay composite HG imo
eye for detail in preparation determines success, tis why I never trust other ppl to assemble stuff.
want stuff done to a proper quality, best do it urself unless the other person can prove or warrant their quality standards higher
constant steam out the warm/hot exhaust and/or bubbling coolant tank could be blown fire-ring.
abit of steam/vapour out the oil cap is norm cos some H20 is byproduct of combustion, unless u have alot of blowby.
faulty temp gauge sensor will just make the gauge itself mis-read.
faulty ecu coolant sensor reading too low will make the ecu run too rich n sooty.
faulty ecu coolant sensor reading too high will make the rad fan turn on frequently.
engine/coolant temp is mainly governed by the thermostat. remove & check that it still works in hot water, check upper pipes hot, check the rad also gets hot and not blocked, check fan works
checking spark plug appearance, piston top appearance, cylinder compression will tell alot.
unless it has so much compression ratio till it detonates, which creates it's own major issues,
a standard HG with perfectly flat & clean faces, torqued properly to factory spec has easily withstood my stock cg13de compression with additional 10psi turbo on past trackdays so should be able to withstand ur ratio.
the genuine victor reinz HG nissan uses is stronger than cheapo ebay composite HG imo
eye for detail in preparation determines success, tis why I never trust other ppl to assemble stuff.
want stuff done to a proper quality, best do it urself unless the other person can prove or warrant their quality standards higher
Why don't you just take it back to the ppl that built it?
Excellent. I didn't want you whipping the head off when its their issue and you losing out. Hope its sorted for you.
pollyp
Club Member
have a read
http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/cgi-bin/glos/con1item.cgi?file=*ADV0046-1011.txt
or call ur local advice bureu bout what to do if the shop caused the fault
http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/cgi-bin/glos/con1item.cgi?file=*ADV0046-1011.txt
or call ur local advice bureu bout what to do if the shop caused the fault
pollyp
Club Member
did you check that the cooling system was fully functioning correctly before starting?
- removed & checked thermostat was working fully,
- check radiator wasn't blocked,
- and importantly you brimmed & fully bled the air out the cooling system before setting off?
these 3 r ur responsibility as a fitter for correctly installing the goods.
if you can prove u checked these fundamental stuff n installed the engine correctly then they could be liable for causing more damage from poor quality work.
if u failed to check them, it could've lead to overheating, which then warps the alloy engine and blows the HG as a result, in which case the shop could say it's ur own fault for damaging the engine.
- removed & checked thermostat was working fully,
- check radiator wasn't blocked,
- and importantly you brimmed & fully bled the air out the cooling system before setting off?
these 3 r ur responsibility as a fitter for correctly installing the goods.
if you can prove u checked these fundamental stuff n installed the engine correctly then they could be liable for causing more damage from poor quality work.
if u failed to check them, it could've lead to overheating, which then warps the alloy engine and blows the HG as a result, in which case the shop could say it's ur own fault for damaging the engine.
Last edited:
OP
OP
Few things from today :
Radiator not blocked
Coolant was clean with no oil contaminants
Re bled coolant system and bled perfect within 5 -10 mins with hot air blowing through vents
Steam was also coming through vents as before but I think its sucking air from rocker cover breather which is blowing steam
Steam still puffing from oil dipstick rocker breather and oil cap
Mayo on oil cap
Car finds difficult to idle and dies nearly straight away
Radiator not blocked
Coolant was clean with no oil contaminants
Re bled coolant system and bled perfect within 5 -10 mins with hot air blowing through vents
Steam was also coming through vents as before but I think its sucking air from rocker cover breather which is blowing steam
Steam still puffing from oil dipstick rocker breather and oil cap
Mayo on oil cap
Car finds difficult to idle and dies nearly straight away
OP
OP
Rang engine builders , told him everything and he reckons to check if vent system within rocker cover blocked? Check rad? Run car without thermostat see if get hot? He also thinks mayo under cap is from the steam hitting off oil causing it cause no mayo in sump, and he also reckons that rings and head gasket still OK that its more related to timing as I got re ground can shafts which he timed to standard spec which I then got a mechanic to advance to 110* starting point as I was instructed by autosprint cams Birmingham , so I've a bit more checking to do before I condemn head or rings.. Your thoughts please
OP
OP
Did a few more tests:
Breather system under rocker cover wasn't too bad but I will clean it as I have it apart
Engine timing hasn't jumped from when I timed it to 110* starting point
I took the thermostat out and done the boiling water test but it only opened on one little spot at 4mm long so I'm going to run it tommorow with no thermostat and see if any different
Also steam is coming from front pipe on engine behind manifold from crankcase up to rocker and out breather pipe and also up where chain is located
Breather system under rocker cover wasn't too bad but I will clean it as I have it apart
Engine timing hasn't jumped from when I timed it to 110* starting point
I took the thermostat out and done the boiling water test but it only opened on one little spot at 4mm long so I'm going to run it tommorow with no thermostat and see if any different
Also steam is coming from front pipe on engine behind manifold from crankcase up to rocker and out breather pipe and also up where chain is located
pollyp
Club Member
Sounds like thermostats sticking shut. When in boiling pan it should be fully open wide, then once at 88c it should be closed. New thermostat & full bleed should stop it overheating but I wonder if the overheat has now warped the head or compromised the hg seal.
Also if its been rehoned with new rings, u should follow machinists bed-in procedure.
Also if its been rehoned with new rings, u should follow machinists bed-in procedure.
OP
OP
Machinist reckons that i havent done hg in , he said the steam is hot water touching cold which coukd be caused by blocked rad, thermostat ,Machinist instructions was drive normal for first few miles and when sure no leaks or problems drive her on as hard as like to bed in and mechanic who builds rally engines said the same
OP
OP
Cleaned out breather system under rocker cover and ran car without thermostat and a little bit of good news ,things noticed:
Car idles now (dies after a few minutes though)
Not as much steam out crankcase or breather (still quite a lot though)
Took spark plugs out again and all were black sutty
Looked into cylinders, cyl 1,2,4 were wet and 3 dry
Waiting to put my wishbones back together then take for a drive and see if any change and if not I'll be back onto engineering shop
Car idles now (dies after a few minutes though)
Not as much steam out crankcase or breather (still quite a lot though)
Took spark plugs out again and all were black sutty
Looked into cylinders, cyl 1,2,4 were wet and 3 dry
Waiting to put my wishbones back together then take for a drive and see if any change and if not I'll be back onto engineering shop
OP
OP
update:
done a few more checks,
-cleaned out vacuum pipe from rocker to inlet manifold (sucking fine)
compression test
cyl 1- 120 psi
cyl2 -180 psi
cyl3-100 psi
cyl4-180psi
now my standard 1.3 march engine from automatic is 150 psi , so ive increased compression 30 psi
engine builders still dont think head or rings gone, think engine still needs bedding in , yet when i blow in vacuum pipe it blows out rocker breather? which indicates rings, valves,headgasket, waiting to take it for a long drive and see how it goes
done a few more checks,
-cleaned out vacuum pipe from rocker to inlet manifold (sucking fine)
compression test
cyl 1- 120 psi
cyl2 -180 psi
cyl3-100 psi
cyl4-180psi
now my standard 1.3 march engine from automatic is 150 psi , so ive increased compression 30 psi
engine builders still dont think head or rings gone, think engine still needs bedding in , yet when i blow in vacuum pipe it blows out rocker breather? which indicates rings, valves,headgasket, waiting to take it for a long drive and see how it goes
pollyp
Club Member
cyl 1,2,4 wet as in oil pooling piston wet? oil ring control issue like mine?
if the O2 was closed looping and mixture running ok all the plugs should look clean brown once warm. was this when warm? maybe the O2 is old or contaminated with oil?
those are low compressions (u gonna force induction?) although from my history it's slowly increases & levels out over time as rings bed (the dip in the middle was after changing gauge valve btw)
but I'm more worried bout the HUGE variation which could be caused by oil pooling in cyl1,2,4 (essentially wet compression testing) while cyl3 was dry and has the lower reading.
haynes says normally should be 11-13bars and must not vary over 0.98bars between cyls. ur cyl3 varying upto 5.5bars between cyl2 & 4 is alarming, could either be very bad rings or blown HG fire rings between the cylinders. whatever it is, it's time to inspect inside cos something is seriously wrong imo.
if the O2 was closed looping and mixture running ok all the plugs should look clean brown once warm. was this when warm? maybe the O2 is old or contaminated with oil?
those are low compressions (u gonna force induction?) although from my history it's slowly increases & levels out over time as rings bed (the dip in the middle was after changing gauge valve btw)
but I'm more worried bout the HUGE variation which could be caused by oil pooling in cyl1,2,4 (essentially wet compression testing) while cyl3 was dry and has the lower reading.
haynes says normally should be 11-13bars and must not vary over 0.98bars between cyls. ur cyl3 varying upto 5.5bars between cyl2 & 4 is alarming, could either be very bad rings or blown HG fire rings between the cylinders. whatever it is, it's time to inspect inside cos something is seriously wrong imo.
wehey
Ex. Club Member
I have a 1mm head skim and mine are 230psi ish
Adding 1.0L Pistons should raise the compression a fair bit higher than this.
OP
OP
spark plugs a black with sut and threads of spark plugs have oil or petrol on them as wet( could be petrol mixing with sut) its as if its not burning all the petrol , my fuel reg is just above 4 1/2 bar , auto sprint cams told me to uprate fuel to get car to idle right , is this too much?
when car starts it wont idle and will konk out, when i hold revs and wait for splutteryness to dissapear , car revs sweet but konks itself out on idle
are you on about the 02 sensor?
when car starts it wont idle and will konk out, when i hold revs and wait for splutteryness to dissapear , car revs sweet but konks itself out on idle
are you on about the 02 sensor?
OP
OP
I have a 1mm head skim and mine are 230psi ish
Adding 1.0L Pistons should raise the compression a fair bit higher than this.
and ive had block skim and head and pistons, something is not right!
