EPS Power steering column, what ACTUALLY goes wrong?

[spacecabbie]

I do have the schematics, know how and details but it’s not something I would publish on here due to I.P. I would be careful in clearing the faults and expecting that to fix the issue, the steering system is a safety critical component and I was involved in the set-up of the remanufacture of these products in Czech for 24 months, but it was decided that remanufacture and repair was not a path TRW was gonna take.

Thanks for your answer, Not expecting clearing the codes will fix the issue but repair/rebuild/replace in all those cases I need to clear the codes eventually. I have rebuild diverse car electronics just wanted to have a go before i chuck it in the bin. Repair might not be an option for most commercial applications but as a hobbyist I am able to spend time one it. This car has had this fault for years it was usually cleared about every 6 months so i am very keen to see what's going on in the unit.

I do understand your reservations though,

 

[Fairlady]

Hey all,

Now I am on my laptop I can reply properly.

I used to work at the manufactures of ther EPS System (TRW Automotive), where I worked in the Warranty Department analysising all UK and a percentage of international Warranty Returns to improve Manufacturing of the product. I also did some dealer visits and vehicle investigations in my time aswell.

So basically, I know everything there needs to know about the Nissan K12 EPS System.

You are correct, you cannot fit a second hand unit to a vehicle because the system handshakes with a dongle to the BCM and restricts ignition on if the dongle does not match. I know people who have fitted second hand units to their vehicle and it's worked, but not sure how they did this (I do have my opionions how you could possible do this but wouldn't want to broadcast on an open forum - becuase I am not total convinced and never tried it). I don't think TRW ever released the knowhow on clearing the dongle, when I visited Nissan Technical Centre to do some testing on a vehicle - not even Nissan had the ability to clear the dongle on the EPS System.

Next Subject, Fault Codes. The System has many internal fault codes which only display to a handful of DTC on the vehical. If the system identfies a failure it will generate a internal fault code and reduce the asssistance to 0% by disengaging the moter relay for safey. On ignition cycle the fault will be cleared unless it's a hard failure and the fault code will regenerate. If the fault code is generated 3 times in a row then the system latches and generates a System latch and can only be cleared by a diagnostics machine over CAN. These fault codes are Level A, Level B and Level C failures within the system. Level A Failures are normally CAN Issus (Communication Protacol), Level B are hardware failures and Level C are Latch Faults.

During the production there were known hardware and software issues within the system which was resolved during manufacturing. Earlier Systems are more common to fail then later systems. Software failure are normally intermittent and fails but when cleared would normally not fail again.

The system is designed in 3 blocks, ECU, Motor and Torque Sensor. The Motor was manufactured by Globe Motors and are very reliable apart from the Relay that is fitted. The Torque Sensor is an optical system produced in a clean room environment and the ECU was manufactured internally by a sister plant. I wouldn't recommend anyone trying to repair or opening the system without knowning what they are doing. I have questions a few of the re-manufacturing companies that state they repair the systems asking what exactly do they repair (just out of interest) but never got a reply. I would really question their intentions because I know TRW would never release the source Code or Database Files for any external site to repair the EPS. I was working in Prague for 1 year to estblish a Re-Manufacturing process for the EPS Systems and to be honest, it never hit off due to safety and the manufacturing plant didn't want to release the source code - it's agood job I had all what I needed! TRW always said that no system would ever be released if a Failure ever occured regardless of cause; I remember we had a production failure where the test machine was created internal fault codes into the system and all the systems were scrapped (over 200).

The system works on the CAN System of the vehicle and transmit and receives data to and from the ECM, BCM etc.. The system can be interigated with TRW mapped databases and internal parameters can be monitored and configurated over the CANbus. This was never released (as I'm aware) to the general public or Nissan.

Unforntunatly TRW lost the contract for the K12 system in 2009 (I think - if I remember correctly) which was unforntunaity becuase by 2006+ the system was really good and I would recommend the system to anyone. I beleive Delphi now produce the system for the K13 and also a retro fit for the K12 for the TRW replacement. I left TRW in 2010 and went on to bigger and better things.. but I do still know alot about the system and could really help someone if needed with reading the internal fault codes and resetting the dongle if required.

Another thing that I didn't talk about - The system has diffenrent Tune data for different Car configurations, without reading my old notes this was, Perol, Diesal, Sport and C+C Model Range. The system has boost curves, self steering centring and all the good stuff which can be configured with the right tools.

As someone said above, the system does have 2 relays, These are actually called a Link relay and Motor Relay. The Motor Relay is to activate the motor, and to disable the 3-phase motor on failure if required. The Link relay is on the ECU.

I'm trying to answer all the questions above with alittle of information, faults can be caued due to the relays but it's just as likely to be an internal hardware failure. a spec of dust in the torque sensor or a software issue. As I said previously, the system has many faults ( i think around 130ish) and these are assigned to about 5 DTCs so therefore the below DTC might have 100's of root causes. i.e DTC 5606 might be due to the Motor Relay, or the FET Drive for the Mototr the hall sensor which monitor the Motor or the motor feedback circuit. So basically could be either Motor or ECU Fault - in Warranty we barely looked at the DTC unless the system had no internal fault codes because it never helped!

DTC Number Description
5601 Battery Voltage Fault
D000 CAN Bus Fault
5609 CAN Vehicle Speed Fault
5611 CAN RearGearEngaged Invalid
5603 EPS Transient Fault
5604 EPS Operation Fault – Torque Sensor
5606 EPS Operation Fault – Motor
5607 EPS Operation Fault – NVM
5608 EPS Operation Fault – ECU
5604 EPS Internal Fault – Torque Sensor
5606 EPS Internal Fault – Motor
5607 EPS Internal Fault – NVM
5608 EPS Internal Fault – ECU

If someone needs specific details then private message me and I'll try and help.

The TRW System does get some negative feedback - but to be honest I like it. I like it that much I have fitted it to my kit car, this maybe because I can get it working and do some fancy stuff with it - but it's worked really well..

I think I have answered as much as I can - my wife is giving me that look to get off my laptop.

If I can post other helpful stuff I will.

P.S I live in Birmingham - UK so if anyone is around I'm sure I can help. I actually went to a scrap yard yesterday and got 2 EPS off a Micra for spares for my kit Car, knowing if it fails it easier to chnage it. Only takes 10 minutes to remove the EPS (from a scrap car) the bottom of the dash does get in the way and I break it on the scrap car!!!

Hope it made sense and everyone gets alittle information.

Jason

Hi Jason bit of a long shot but I have fitted a nissan note steering column to my classic car Used the existing from the note All works well but doesn't centralise Any ideas
Steve

 

[huttojb]

Hey Steve. Will send you my number, now that has peaked my interest. This is my interest and exact what I do.

 

[Fairlady]

From huttojb: Hey all,

I used to work at the manufactures of ther EPS System (TRW Automotive), where I worked in the Warranty Department analysising all UK and a percentage of international Warranty Returns to improve Manufacturing of the product. I also did some dealer visits and vehicle investigations in my time aswell.

So basically, I know everything there needs to know about the Nissan K12 EPS System.

You are correct, you cannot fit a second hand unit to a vehicle because the system handshakes with a dongle to the BCM and restricts ignition on if the dongle does not match. I know people who have fitted second hand units to their vehicle and it's worked, but not sure how they did this (I do have my opionions how you could possible do this but wouldn't want to broadcast on an open forum - becuase I am not total convinced and never tried it). I don't think TRW ever released the knowhow on clearing the dongle, when I visited Nissan Technical Centre to do some testing on a vehicle - not even Nissan had the ability to clear the dongle on the EPS System.

Next Subject, Fault Codes. The System has many internal fault codes which only display to a handful of DTC on the vehical. If the system identfies a failure it will generate a internal fault code and reduce the asssistance to 0% by disengaging the moter relay for safey. On ignition cycle the fault will be cleared unless it's a hard failure and the fault code will regenerate. If the fault code is generated 3 times in a row then the system latches and generates a System latch and can only be cleared by a diagnostics machine over CAN. These fault codes are Level A, Level B and Level C failures within the system. Level A Failures are normally CAN Issus (Communication Protacol), Level B are hardware failures and Level C are Latch Faults.

During the production there were known hardware and software issues within the system which was resolved during manufacturing. Earlier Systems are more common to fail then later systems. Software failure are normally intermittent and fails but when cleared would normally not fail again.

The system is designed in 3 blocks, ECU, Motor and Torque Sensor. The Motor was manufactured by Globe Motors and are very reliable apart from the Relay that is fitted. The Torque Sensor is an optical system produced in a clean room environment and the ECU was manufactured internally by a sister plant. I wouldn't recommend anyone trying to repair or opening the system without knowning what they are doing. I have questions a few of the re-manufacturing companies that state they repair the systems asking what exactly do they repair (just out of interest) but never got a reply. I would really question their intentions because I know TRW would never release the source Code or Database Files for any external site to repair the EPS. I was working in Prague for 1 year to estblish a Re-Manufacturing process for the EPS Systems and to be honest, it never hit off due to safety and the manufacturing plant didn't want to release the source code - it's agood job I had all what I needed! TRW always said that no system would ever be released if a Failure ever occured regardless of cause; I remember we had a production failure where the test machine was created internal fault codes into the system and all the systems were scrapped (over 200).

The system works on the CAN System of the vehicle and transmit and receives data to and from the ECM, BCM etc.. The system can be interigated with TRW mapped databases and internal parameters can be monitored and configurated over the CANbus. This was never released (as I'm aware) to the general public or Nissan.

Unforntunatly TRW lost the contract for the K12 system in 2009 (I think - if I remember correctly) which was unforntunaity becuase by 2006+ the system was really good and I would recommend the system to anyone. I beleive Delphi now produce the system for the K13 and also a retro fit for the K12 for the TRW replacement. I left TRW in 2010 and went on to bigger and better things.. but I do still know alot about the system and could really help someone if needed with reading the internal fault codes and resetting the dongle if required.

Another thing that I didn't talk about - The system has diffenrent Tune data for different Car configurations, without reading my old notes this was, Perol, Diesal, Sport and C+C Model Range. The system has boost curves, self steering centring and all the good stuff which can be configured with the right tools.

As someone said above, the system does have 2 relays, These are actually called a Link relay and Motor Relay. The Motor Relay is to activate the motor, and to disable the 3-phase motor on failure if required. The Link relay is on the ECU.

I'm trying to answer all the questions above with alittle of information, faults can be caued due to the relays but it's just as likely to be an internal hardware failure. a spec of dust in the torque sensor or a software issue. As I said previously, the system has many faults ( i think around 130ish) and these are assigned to about 5 DTCs so therefore the below DTC might have 100's of root causes. i.e DTC 5606 might be due to the Motor Relay, or the FET Drive for the Mototr the hall sensor which monitor the Motor or the motor feedback circuit. So basically could be either Motor or ECU Fault - in Warranty we barely looked at the DTC unless the system had no internal fault codes because it never helped!

DTC Number Description
5601 Battery Voltage Fault
D000 CAN Bus Fault
5609 CAN Vehicle Speed Fault
5611 CAN RearGearEngaged Invalid
5603 EPS Transient Fault
5604 EPS Operation Fault – Torque Sensor
5606 EPS Operation Fault – Motor
5607 EPS Operation Fault – NVM
5608 EPS Operation Fault – ECU
5604 EPS Internal Fault – Torque Sensor
5606 EPS Internal Fault – Motor
5607 EPS Internal Fault – NVM
5608 EPS Internal Fault – ECU

If someone needs specific details then private message me and I'll try and help.

The TRW System does get some negative feedback - but to be honest I like it. I like it that much I have fitted it to my kit car, this maybe because I can get it working and do some fancy stuff with it - but it's worked really well..

I think I have answered as much as I can - my wife is giving me that look to get off my laptop.

If I can post other helpful stuff I will.

P.S I live in Birmingham - UK so if anyone is around I'm sure I can help. I actually went to a scrap yard yesterday and got 2 EPS off a Micra for spares for my kit Car, knowing if it fails it easier to chnage it. Only takes 10 minutes to remove the EPS (from a scrap car) the bottom of the dash does get in the way and I break it on the scrap car!!!

Hope it made sense and everyone gets alittle information.

Jason

Hi Jason I've fitted a nissan note electric column to a classic car All working fine apart from it doesn't centralise Is this because it's running in the fail safe mode
Thanks Steve

 

[Kilstrom]

Hello Jason
I have a Nissan Micra K12 1.4l year 2005
The Ps light is on and no power steering. I was at the mechanic and they got a fail code. C1608
They cleared the code but the PS light went on again when I got home and no power steering..
Is this code EPS Internal Fault – ECU ? and do I need to replace the whole eps ?
I do not live in the UK so I am out of luck to come by.. I am in Denmark

What do you recommend me to do ?
Ulrik

 

[huttojb]

If you had a fault on your steering system I would recommend a replacement. As LHD cars do not have the security the RHD cars do I would do a hot swap from a like for like car.

 

[Kilstrom]

If you had a fault on your steering system I would recommend a replacement. As LHD cars do not have the security the RHD cars do I would do a hot swap from a like for like car.

Thank you Jason for your reply.. I have keyless entry but that will not be effected if I do a hot swap ?
Ulrik

 

[huttojb]

No, the keyless ignition module will wrap around the steering column just like any other variant. There were only 3 variants of EPS, 1st variant was the Japan MMJ Nissan March, 2nd variant was the European MME RHD variant and lastly the European MME LHD Variant. All variants have tunes available to tune for engine type; petrol, Diesal, C+C and Sports+. So you need to ensure you pick the correct car as you won’t be able to change the tune and fitting a unit with the wrong tune to a car may have some stability issues.

 

[Kilstrom]

No, the keyless ignition module will wrap around the steering column just like any other variant. There were only 3 variants of EPS, 1st variant was the Japan MMJ Nissan March, 2nd variant was the European MME RHD variant and lastly the European MME LHD Variant. All variants have tunes available to tune for engine type; petrol, Diesal, C+C and Sports+. So you need to ensure you pick the correct car as you won’t be able to change the tune and fitting a unit with the wrong tune to a car may have some stability issues.

Thank you again I really appreciate that you are taking time for this.. Just one more question, if I find one and it is from a 1.2 liters engine petrol but same car as mine, will that be a problem as mine is a 1.4 liters engine also petrol .. European MME LHD Variant

 

[huttojb]

Thank you again I really appreciate that you are taking time for this.. Just one more question, if I find one and it is from a 1.2 liters engine gasoline but same car as mine, will that be a problem as mine is a 1.4 liters engine also gasoline.. European MME LHD Variant

That’s a really good question, there was no difference between the engine capacities. So yes, the same unit and tune was in a Petrol 1.2 and 1.4. The only difference was when you got to the 1.6 and this was a different tune. I see people moaning about the steering is heavy but no eps fault lamp, I would expect that the eps was removed from a different engine car.

 

[Kilstrom]

That’s a really good question, there was no difference between the engine capacities. So yes, the same unit and tune was in a Petrol 1.2 and 1.4. The only difference was when you got to the 1.6 and this was a different tune. I see people moaning about the steering is heavy but no eps fault lamp, I would expect that the eps was removed from a different engine car.

That is great so then I might have a chance to get one, as there are more 1.2 liters here than the 1.4 liters. I can do a hot swap without it need to be pared with the car right ? Just to be sure..
Thank you much..

 

[huttojb]

That is great so then I might have a chance to get one, as there are more 1.2 liters here than the 1.4 liters. I can do a hot swap without it need to be pared with the car right ? Just to be sure..
Thank you much..

Hey Kilstorm, yeah I’m pretty sure the LHD market doesn’t have the NATs on the EPS. Obviously the EPS has the functionality to do it as there is no difference from the RHD & LHD systems apart from the active straight ahead position phase angle and the phase angle the system is inserted in to the column. So if the BCM did pair the NATs the EPS will respond as designed but I am 99.9% sure the LHD market does not have the NATs for the EPS activated on the BCM.

 

[huttojb]

Let me know if I am correct.

 

[Kilstrom]

Let me know if I am correct.

Yes I will let you know.. If it turns out to be paired, I can get a dealer to pair it right or do it with a scanner that can connect with the bcm or am I wrong. also do I need to reset the ps light in the dashboard or will it go away after the hot swap..

 

[huttojb]

Yes I will let you know.. If it turns out to be paired, I can get a dealer to pair it right or do it with a scanner that can connect with the bcm or am I wrong. also do I need to reset the ps light in the dashboard or will it go away after the hot swap..

unfortunately the pairing and unpairing of eps was never released to Nissan. If the unit you fit does not have a fault the ps light will go out. The ps light is controlled via a direct CAN message from the eps and therefore by removing the faulty unit will remove the ps light aswell.

 

[Kilstrom]

unfortunately the pairing and unpairing of eps was never released to Nissan. If the unit you fit does not have a fault the ps light will go out. The ps light is controlled via a direct CAN message from the eps and therefore by removing the faulty unit will remove the ps light aswell.

so if it is paired there is no hope for it to work ? I will see what happens, fingers crossed.. or I will have to make a swap with the ic I saw in some earlier posts that would work right if it is paired..

 

[huttojb]

. or I will have to make a swap with the ic I saw in some earlier posts that would work right if it is paired..

Don’t be silly, you really want to mess with your your steering and change a IC that has manufacturing data on it unique to that eps. The IC that’s stores the motor trim, motor tolerance??? You really want to take that risk?? It’s a 38Nm motor, trust me if that wants to turn, your not stopping it, trust me I know!! Well, it’s only a safety critical component that steers your vehicle!! Silly!

 

[Kilstrom]

Don’t be silly, you really want to mess with your your steering and change a IC that has manufacturing data on it unique to that eps. The IC that’s stores the motor trim, motor tolerance??? You really want to take that risk?? It’s a 38Nm motor, trust me if that wants to turn, your not stopping it, trust me I know!! Well, it’s only a safety critical component that steers your vehicle!! Silly!

oh no I wont risk that.. Not a good idea.. That would be stupid.. I just cross fingers for the hot swap will work and it's not paired..

 

[huttojb]

If it’s paired, let me know. You’ll have to send it me but I am happy to unpair it if you need

 

[Kilstrom]

If it’s paired, let me know. You’ll have to send it me but I am happy to unpair it if you need

Thank you so much.. I will let you know when I get a replacement and try it out..

 

[huttojb]

I haven't replied to your message properly because frankly I was a little upset of the comment that I Cheat people. But as you think you know better I will guarantee I will not be helping anymore people out with their EPS. Like I said previously, I use the Nissan System in other applications (See here - ) like Kit Cars, boats etc.. and this gives me alot more satisfaction then giving the systems for Micra's. Unfortunately I do not have a Micra and have no interest in Micras, I helped someone, who recommended me to someone else and so on…. It was never planned. I only did this to help people. But as some people think they know better I will step back and see how many people end up in a wall.

I did use to work for TRW and been looking through a few old paperwork’s about NVM and what is configured in them, I found a few old pictures which I can share and show exactly what is in each NVM. Like I said previously, each NVM is tuned to the system during manufacturing to ensure stability of the system. I have attached the NVM contents below what I had found in my old paperwork, but there is more like Tune Data, Memory Maps for different Engine types, Maintenance Data etc... And you really think by hot swapping the NVM IC it won’t cause an accident! I hope you provide people your name so they can contact you afterwards.

The other thing I haven't even SPOKE about is removing the column and the negative impact this will have to Side Load, Absolute Steering Position, Index Position.... I can go on forever, I worked at TRW for 10 Years on the Nissan K12 System, you really think I do not know what I am talking about!!!!.... but I'm sure people will find out the issues they are going to experience. Do you really think there were no sofware updated, what do you think is going to happen if you get the NVM IC from a different Software Unit, do you really think the Configurations are in the same Memory Location....??

Your comment about there is no locking etc, I have seen it all, Self Steering, Notchy Steering, locking and freeing. but you will find this out. To be honest, I'm so set of proving you wrong, I might even Do something on my Kit Car to demostarte exactly what can happen and put it on YouTube just for you...

Anyway, signing off for the last time on this forum and will hope everyone is safe. Please please take this into consideration before doing as suggested because honestly, I am saying this for you, your family and other road users safety!

Hope everyone gets their system sorted one way or another!

NVM Data Parameters

View attachment 62815View attachment 62816

Look at this post #65

 

[huttojb]

Look at the attachments.

 

[Kilstrom]

Look at the attachments.

wow that is a lot of data, no wonder why it is a bad idea to swap the ic.. that would be dangerous..
I do not understand why someone said you are cheating. I can see many people have got help from you and I think that is really awesome and you are using your time to help others.. I am glad that I found this and you have already been a big help to me..

 

[huttojb]

Think it’s because I won’t publish the information, but I have to be careful as there is a lot of IP and the K12 unit was the base for alot of the other builds they do now. I could probably tell people the CAN messages but I rather not get in trouble. Everything I do is over CAN and I only know this information because I worked there for 10 years. You can pretty much do anything over CAN to the unit, no need to remove, disassembled. People have not seen the faults, warranty returns, OE returns, incidents I have seen and investigated. Some investigation had to go to legal and very controlled, it drives me crazy it’s your steering why would anyone disassembled not knowing what they doing. The worse case is self steer, the system ‘should’ trip out before this happens, but if your messing with it, then just don’t put any kids in the car. IF it’s paired, which im convinced it’s not, send it me I’ll clear it and I’ll send it back. Just pay shipping!

 

[Kilstrom]

Think it’s because I won’t publish the information, but I have to be careful as there is a lot of IP and the K12 unit was the base for alot of the other builds they do now. I could probably tell people the CAN messages but I rather not get in trouble. Everything I do is over CAN and I only know this information because I worked there for 10 years. You can pretty much do anything over CAN to the unit, no need to remove, disassembled. People have not seen the faults, warranty returns, OE returns, incidents I have seen and investigated. Some investigation had to go to legal and very controlled, it drives me crazy it’s your steering why would anyone disassembled not knowing what they doing. The worse case is self steer, the system ‘should’ trip out before this happens, but if your messing with it, then just don’t put any kids in the car. IF it’s paired, which im convinced it’s not, send it me I’ll clear it and I’ll send it back. Just pay shipping!

I sure understand why you do not publish the information (CAN messages), If it is done wrong, I can imagine it could be dangerous and people might get hurt.. Yes it would be easy just to connect over CAN and clear it, what a shame I don't Live near by..
I am tankful that you are willing to clear it for me if it is paired.. I will let you know if it is paired also if it's not paired..

 

[Kilstrom]

I sure understand why you do not publish the information (CAN messages), If it is done wrong, I can imagine it could be dangerous and people might get hurt.. Yes it would be easy just to connect over CAN and clear it, what a shame I don't Live near by..
I am tankful that you are willing to clear it for me if it is paired.. I will let you know if it is paired also if it's not paired..

Think it’s because I won’t publish the information, but I have to be careful as there is a lot of IP and the K12 unit was the base for alot of the other builds they do now. I could probably tell people the CAN messages but I rather not get in trouble. Everything I do is over CAN and I only know this information because I worked there for 10 years. You can pretty much do anything over CAN to the unit, no need to remove, disassembled. People have not seen the faults, warranty returns, OE returns, incidents I have seen and investigated. Some investigation had to go to legal and very controlled, it drives me crazy it’s your steering why would anyone disassembled not knowing what they doing. The worse case is self steer, the system ‘should’ trip out before this happens, but if your messing with it, then just don’t put any kids in the car. IF it’s paired, which im convinced it’s not, send it me I’ll clear it and I’ll send it back. Just pay shipping!

Hello Again, I'm going to pick one up tomorrow ,I found a match at a scrapyard (dealer).. I also contacted different Nissan workshops and the funny thing is that they don't know if it have to paired to the car, really strange as I can't be the first one with a defective PS.. However they do say that it have to be calibrated.. So fingers crossed that the the hot swap works..

 

[Kilstrom]

As I promised, Here is an update, Jason.. I have replaced the Power steering column and it is as you said LHD is not paiered.. no problems at all, PS Light went off too and all works..
Thank You for all your help..

Ulrik

 

[huttojb]

No problem. Glad I could help.

 

[Rut]

Hey Rut. Depends how attached to the car you are, personally I wouldn’t but I’m not you! I can help you if you decide to go that route!

hi thanks so much for your help!..so the mechanic put in a new PScolumn and it works fine now ..except..car is fine but after a mile the red key sign comes on..the car isn't affected.The mechanic is a bit baffled..has tried reprogramming the keybut to no avail.
One suggestion was that I just leave it..
do you think it's ok just to leave.
Thanks again for all your help

 

[huttojb]

hi thanks so much for your help!..so the mechanic put in a new PScolumn and it works fine now ..except..car is fine but after a mile the red key sign comes on..the car isn't affected.The mechanic is a bit baffled..has tried reprogramming the keybut to no avail.
One suggestion was that I just leave it..
do you think it's ok just to leave.
Thanks again for all your help

Hey Rut. That’s the NATs. It’s a massive risk as if you get a flat battery then your car will be immobilised. Sorry, I speak to that many people I have no idea of any previous conversation, where you located.

 

[vexorg]

It’s a 38Nm motor, trust me if that wants to turn, your not stopping it,

That's only about 28lbft, and with the larger diameter steering wheel then that looks easily beatable in a man vs motor fight

 

[huttojb]

… and it has a 32:1 gear ratio. I’m not a motor expert, all I know is I’m a 40 year old 6ft man, and I cannot stop it!

 

[vexorg]

You didn't say it had a gearbox!!

 

[huttojb]

You didn't say it had a gearbox!!

So out of interest, what does that work out to? Where you located and happy to show you? Will give some more details when I get home later.

 

[vexorg]

The gearbox gives it effectively about 1200Nm on the steering wheel.

 

[frank]

a 1200nm 12v motor would be bigger than the car

 

[huttojb]

And people want to change and disassembled the unit…. Good luck, like I said, it throw me across a test lab once.

 

[vexorg]

a 1200nm 12v motor would be bigger than the car

ok, what torque do you get for 38Nm reduced through a 32:1 gearbox?
Dont confuse torque with power

 

[frank]

ok, what torque do you get for 38Nm reduced through a 32:1 gearbox?
Dont confuse torque with power

i use these brushless motors for my grinders that i use daily, rated at 3nm and over 3hp, and they draw 120amps at full chat

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[vexorg]

ok, the basics of angular power, speed and torque is beyond your grasp.

Your link is what you get if non-electrical engineers make up a spec, lots of meaningless junk like hall effect and 170kV

 

[frank]

ok, the basics of angular power, speed and torque is beyond your grasp.

Your link is what you get if non-electrical engineers make up a spec, lots of meaningless junk like hall effect and 170kV

whatever ..

 

[vexorg]

whatever ..

And you can drive a car without a clue how any of it works under the bonnet, and some of us do.
Same with motors it seems.

 

[Joshk1994]

Big thankyou to Jason for sorting my EPS problem out - used unit supplied with the Dongle issue dealt with so it goes straight in the car with no need for a dealer visit. Works and drives great with no fault codes.
Definitely the man to see about this. Really cost effective compared to the ridiculous prices quoted by my Nissan dealer!

Hi Jason,

Not sure if this message will find you, let alone in time before my Mot is due in a weeks time.

My PS light is on and a friend has offered to fit a 2nd hand pump for me. However, from the comments I've read it doesn't seem like the right option.

Any help/tips on what to do?

Josh

 

[huttojb]

Hi Jason,

Not sure if this message will find you, let alone in time before my Mot is due in a weeks time.

My PS light is on and a friend has offered to fit a 2nd hand pump for me. However, from the comments I've read it doesn't seem like the right option.

Any help/tips on what to do?

Josh

Hey Josh, thanks for breaking up the argument above it was getting a little heated. Although i do need to reply to it ??.
Where you located mate, sure I can help.

 

[Joshk1994]

Thanks for the response. I'm located in Basingstoke, Hampshire.

This might be too far out from where you are (if you're not then great).

I've been driving with the PS steering light since Sept '20 and not had any issues


As I'll get pennies for the car now if I tried to sell it... In your opinion is it worth getting the 2nd hand part fitted just so I can get it to pass the Mot?

Hey Josh, thanks for breaking up the argument above it was getting a little heated. Although i do need to reply to it ??.
Where you located mate, sure I

 

[huttojb]

Dropped you a pm.

 

[James.j]

Dropped you a pm.

Hi Jason,
I have been scrolling through many of the posts regarding EPS failures for over a week and not sure where to start trying to fix the problem that I have with a failed EPS.
I have the classic red PS light up on the dash, plus the NATS light that appears after a few miles. Took it to the local garage yesterday where he scanned it for faults and no fault codes found. He said that the PS wasn't even registering and said the fuse was likely blown. I have checked this and it isn't blown.
Please can you tell me where to start? Thanks

 

[huttojb]

Hey James. Where you located. ?

happy to have a look and give you a definite root cause. The NAT light shows that it’s probably been replaced before and if it’s been replaced by a reman firm then all that’s been done is that a failed unit has been fitted with some major components replace which 95% of the time was not the failure.
Sure I could help and if you travel to Birmingham this weekend I’ll look at it for you.

 

[jaffaman]

No, the keyless ignition module will wrap around the steering column just like any other variant. There were only 3 variants of EPS, 1st variant was the Japan MMJ Nissan March, 2nd variant was the European MME RHD variant and lastly the European MME LHD Variant. All variants have tunes available to tune for engine type; petrol, Diesal, C+C and Sports+. So you need to ensure you pick the correct car as you won’t be able to change the tune and fitting a unit with the wrong tune to a car may have some stability issues.

@huttojb
Curious you mention this.

I have recently acquired a 3-door Japanese March (essentially a JDM variant of the Micra) with the PS light now permanently lit. It's an early-2005 12SR variant. Bought it for pennies as, along with the PS light it has some other issues. But the hope is I get the car fully road-worthy and, eventually wean off and 'upgrade' from my current fuel-guzzler. While at the same time saving the poor K12 from the scrapyard.

I don't live in the UK myself so obviously can't drop by your place, so would be keen on your insights.
1). Like kilstrom, would it essentially be the same thing for Japanese EPS? That is, a transplant with known-working used units will (should) get rid of the PS light? No other work / considerations required? My 12SR does not have the smartkey / proximity feature, being a 2005.
2). Active straight ahead position phase angle. Is this something I should be wary of for Japanese EPS as well? Assuming I went down the transplant route, how would one be able to 'center' this with the transplanted unit?
3). You mentioned tuning. The 12SR being a performance model, is it possible to 'clone' the performance tune to a transplanted part (from a non-performance model) with your magic? Any possibility of doing this long-distance?

The reason I bring up 1). is that Japan is RHD as well. And I have been on Japanese forums and have seen, countless times, that the Japanese overwhelmingly opt for transplanting known-working used units (as brand new units cost more new than in the EU - ouch). And I have not seen a single report of used transplants not working in Japan. It basically sounds like the EU models have more security features than the home country (though the K12 did have a lot of Renault co-development with it so... also probably explains why new EPS units in Japan cost so much more than in the EU).

Happy for a PM as well, as I can't PM being a new member (joined to ask)!

 

[James.j]

Hey James. Where you located. ?

happy to have a look and give you a definite root cause. The NAT light shows that it’s probably been replaced before and if it’s been replaced by a reman firm then all that’s been done is that a failed unit has been fitted with some major components replace which 95% of the time was not the failure.
Sure I could help and if you travel to Birmingham this weekend I’ll look at it for you.

Thanks Jason for all your help, advice and knowledge regarding the defunct EPS on my K12. Today I fitted the unit you supplied and I now have power steering again.
Anyone with EPS issues please ask Jason first before talking to anyone else. Top genuine guy, a real asset to the club?????many thanks.