Engine Transplants?

L

lee@

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Ok, I'm new here and I haven't tried using the search, but I thought it would be informative to gather together in one thread all known engines fitted into Micras.

That can include factory units, but I'm more interested in units from other cars.

So if you have something unusual fitted please post here, with pictures if possible.

Thanks

K10=
MA09ERT =110hp
MA10 =50hp
MA10S =55hp
MA10T =75hp ?
MA12 =60hp

E15ET =115hp (N12)
SR20 =120-227hp (N14/P10)

K11=
CG10DE =54-59hp
CG13DE =75hp

GA16DE = (N14/B13/P10)
SR20 =120-227hp (N14/P10)

N12 = Cherry
N14 = Sunny
B13 = 100NX
P10 = Primera phase1
 
Why dont you do the work rather than let everyone try and do it for you?
 
The ET Blue was on about is our plan for eventually trying to fit a CA18ET out of a Bluebird.

I'd heard of K11s with SR20s fitted, but hearing that some K10s are being done exites me.

How far along are the convertions?

Umar, I'm guessing your CherryK10 on the ZXOC forum?
 
Hasn't anyone tried fitting a CA18 yet then?

Thanks everyone for you help.

Is this worthy of being given a sticky Kev?
 
Blue_Neon said:
I reckon we should play with the MA10, squeeze what we can from it and scare the heck out of a few people
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do it and bring it to the pod please, Dont think i'll be scared of an one litre to be honest lol
 
i had i k11 with ga16de from a 94 primera,

its currently breaking in for sale section,,:)
 

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Mark said:
do it and bring it to the pod please, Dont think i'll be scared of an one litre to be honest lol
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:) Yeah sounds like fun Mark! The 'scare' wasnt directed at anyone here (you know who you are...!)

The point of this project is to make the K10 go as fast as we can for the least amount of cash.

Total spent so far:
Car £4.99 ebay
Front wing £18.00 ebay
Custom Zorst system £0 (had shedloads of stainelss pipe and a nice box)

hehehe its gonna be great fun,

After we blow up the Ma10 then CA18ET will be shoved in and that will scare both you AND me!!!
 
the best way to go is to put a CA18ET for cheapness and a bit of big end reliability, doubt theres much point for going passed 220bhp unless you want to buy a set of tyres every week due to uncontrollable wheelspin in every gear.

E15ET's are rare a rocking hose #### and personally if i had the choice i would keep it in the cherry

on the other hand a normally asperated E series engine might be a good low buck choice and if fitting in a E series is fairly easy there should be no problem. dont know how much power a N/A E 15 is prob about 75 bhp, probably could tune the lump to 85-90 bhp with a few choice mods.

i like my micra with the 1.0 at the moment as it runs on air and putting a vg30dett in it would be a tad stoopid as it functions as a cheap run about car. the S13 us my other toy

nothing is going to be bolt in but a few choice lumps would be a GA16DE(easy to get hold of)E15S(even cheaper but not really much of a upgrade)SR20DE(Moderatly cheap and a good lump)

i would like to see a write up umar as to the basics of putting in a E series, if its not that hard i might buy a E15S out of a prairie and give the N/A way a shot in the future
 
Mark said:
do it and bring it to the pod please, Dont think i'll be scared of an one litre to be honest lol
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Would you be "scared" of a 1 litre turbo tho!

Seems like a good option. No messing around with mounts, wiring or drive shafts. The only thing is, im not sure how far you could push the gearbox or the clutch etc, and not being fuel injected, im not sure how well you could tune it.

Transplant is probably a better alternative
 
Arnold said:
Would you be "scared" of a 1 litre turbo tho!
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ST may be quick for what it is... but it aint that quick...

my other car would beat it anyway
 

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Mark said:
my other car would beat it anyway
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HAHAHAAAAAAAAAAA. The good old Uno Go-Slow? What's so special about it then? Is it pushing 174bhp with 150lb/ft torque?

I dare ya to take it to pod and race Ed ;)
 
nope its running more than that lol.

and no james its not uno go slow by any means so dont start camper van boy
 
so its not road worthy then.. Ive worked on punto GT engines before. horrid things. My mate has his upto around 180bhp, and more torque than my ST also, (black ST this was) but still couldn't get close to my times. It was able to break better though, just about getting 1g deceleration which is quite impressive. He sold it though (thank goodness)
 
mines not the mk2 engine its the 1301cc mk1. i've always liked them and just waiting til i'm 21 to be able to insure it, i can remember when i first had it it was really fast but it had a smokey engine, was running 1 bar boost with filter and zorst,

been all rebuilt now so is gonna be rapid

still reckon it'd have your ST though ed lol :)
 
whats so spesh about a ma09ert anyways? i bet a tuned up ma10et would be about on par with it
 
whats the point of having a supercharger and a turbo

imo that kind of set up is used on big turbo setups so the supercharger give the initial boost and then when the rpm has built up the turbo takes over

or a supercharger blowing into a big ole turbo to spin it up

i still say a tuned up ma10et would be on par with it
 
Mark said:
ST may be quick for what it is... but it aint that quick...
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I wasnt talking about the ST! The figaro engine with a manual box instead of auto would easily compete / beat your MA12! Even the ST engine as standard would..

Its very quick considering its only a 0.9 L engine!
 
Superturbos have been known to be 280-300bhp, now i say that is VERY impressive for a 930cc engine. I will be on the fun side of 200bhp by early next year ;) If ANYONE reckons here they can beat me with a 1.0 bring it on :) :) Im up for a laugh.

Ed
 
its all possible with chucking the boost in say 30psi would get you some good figures providing youve got the fuel for it, wouldnt be very streetable though
 
Arnold said:
I wasnt talking about the ST! The figaro engine with a manual box instead of auto would easily compete / beat your MA12! Even the ST engine as standard would..

Its very quick considering its only a 0.9 L engine!
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itdoesnt take a genius to work out a turbo engine is gonna be more powerful than a 1.2 8V.

why dont you race against me at the pod?
 
The point of the supercharger is to give it plenty of low and mid range torque, and the turbo give's it top end. And it works very well.

And as standard, they arent that quick eitheri dont think, but they are only 110 HP, which isn't a lot, and the manufactures 0-60 TIME AND 1/4 MILE have never been proved on a stock set up.

However, its the tuning potential thats interesting, and as ed has proved, you can do a lot with it.
 
Mark said:
itdoesnt take a genius to work out a turbo engine is gonna be more powerful than a 1.2 8V.

why dont you race against me at the pod?
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I've already said why :rolleyes:

But - my car does seem quicker with the 5 speed box, so may consider it at the next run what ya brung day (not japshow)
 
cause you like to go on about how fast other peoples cars are and who can beat whos and what is faster than what but when it comes down to it your all talk?
 
I've already said you'd beat mine!! Im not making it out to be extremely powerful car! - yet ;)
 
i see the point of using a blower and a turbo but really i bet the ma09ert has only got a small turbo to start with, is it a t2?, without the blower it would boost up about 2500 anyway so in theory the blower is only being used for a fraction of the powerband, having a setup on a super turbo like a t28 pushing 16+psi this will then shift the turbo powerband up to like around the 3500 figure, which will be umber laggy thus the blower would be a really good tool to spice up the low down revs.

on the other hand using a ma10et with a t28 from standstill the ma09ert with a t28 would be better off standing start due to less lag but rolling start in 2nd gear there would be minimal diffrence between both engines, thats comparing both engine with the same internal mods and external apart from one engine having a blower.

does anyone know the rally setup for the ma09ert?
 
sorry for bringing this up but really need to know who has tryed to fit in a CA18DET or the CA18ET or a GA16DE or a SR20DE in the K10.

is there much diffrence in engine size compared to the K11? becuse what im thinking is if its the same size there no problem fitting in a SR or a CA lump, its gonig to quite close with the gearbox with a CA.

personally i wouldnt mind popping in a GA16DE, but for the bother of doing a GA swap thres more intellegence in fitting in a SR in the long run.
 
only person i know is quickdraw that has done 2.0ltr and 1.6ltr(no longer on msc),,but the k10 engine bay is bigger yeas
 
RIK said:
only person i know is quickdraw that has done 2.0ltr and 1.6ltr(no longer on msc),,but the k10 engine bay is bigger yeas
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thats a shame as we could all do with the info,

the MA is a good engine but as it only has 50bhp its not vey nice being beaten by fiestas and saxos, i might go for a GA16DE for budget factor and still try to retain a bit of economy in the micra, i would say if i used primera engine mounts for the GA16de for a upgrade in the future these could easily be swaped out for a set of 2.0egt mounts and have the micra nearly a bolt in from the GA16DE.

the only think that is puzziling me a bit is the hubs, are N13, N14 hubs a direct bolt in for the old micra, as this would be definatly neede in such a swap to accept any kind of driveshaft from a GA16DE.

A N14 GA16DE front crossmember in my mind would be smaller than a primera GA16DE crossmember so in theory if possible when doing the swap dith the MA crossmember completely and try and fit a n14 crossmember by drilling new holes(if its nearly the same length)

these are only ideas at the moment as i really need advice from someone whos done the swap already
 
k11 hubs are direct swap onto k10 and then you can fit GTiR brakes on, slim's the man to talk to on this, twas orginally his idea not sure if he ever did it??
 
FYI the reason why none of the other MA series can make the power of the MA09 is simply the MA09 block is much stronger. The bores are very thick relative to the engine capacity. To put it as simply as possible, that is how come my MA09 can withstand 25psi of boost, and not go bang.
 
Slim said:
The point of the supercharger is to give it plenty of low and mid range torque, and the turbo give's it top end. And it works very well.
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Compared to the power and torque ratings to E15ET, MA09ERT doesn't have pretty much torque. E15ET has 114bhp stock when MA09ERT has 110bhp so they are pretty close to each other. E15ET stock torque is 164Nm when MA09ERT makes only something like 130-135Nm. My E15ET Produces 132bhp and 217Nm of torque because of the little bit advanced valve timing and therefore it has so much torque on lower rpms. The highest power comes already in 5000rpm and torque peak is in 3650rpms. It already has 115Nm of torque in 1300rpms so its pretty driveable :)

I already have bigger turbo (T25G) just waiting to install, but I'm not sure will I install it because the engine acts so well now. For next project I'm going to convert a Micra in to 4wd and use Subaru 1.8 boxer engine for beginning and maybe sometime drop a 2.0 DOHC turbo engine from my Subaru to it and try to get some good quarter mile or 0-60mph times ;)
 
ma09 block wouldnt make it handle any more power than a ma10 block, it only in the extreem cases which a block would crack through power, the factors which would make it handle more power is larger rods tougher crank, or shotpeened rods as standard for example. i would have thought the ma09 does have lower comp as standard though compared to a ma10

back to the Engine conversion Q's, spaeaking to a friend of mine and he is saying theres no way that you can put power through the standard MA driveshafts, with a conversion you would have to uprate them to beefier ones off of a n14, which would accept either the ga or Sr driveshafts
 
Mark said:
cause you like to go on about how fast other peoples cars are and who can beat whos and what is faster than what but when it comes down to it your all talk?
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I'll race you.....
 
great engines, ive got a complete ca18et without loom and a ca18det with loom but that got to go back in the 200sx.

CA series motors are good for power, even a CA18ET is good for 200bhp and bags of torque.

i would love to put a CA18 in the future in there as it would be one damn fast micra, trust me you would only need the 8 valve in a FWD car, no need ofr the 16 valve as over 250bhp would be wasted power as i doubt people would be able to put it down

the SR20DE is a newer engine which has 150bhp on tap standard, the rocker cover looks pretty aswell lol and loads of aftermarket support is avaliable even for n/a form

Im torn between a GA16DE and a SR20DE at the moment, its been said for the K11 its about the same grief for both of them to be fitted. ive had no experiance with the GA16DE but it does make sense that if primera p10 left and right mounts were adapted to fit in the in the k10 a swap between either GA and SR would work, so natural progression from a GA when im bored would be a SR.

also ive see sri primeras go for pennies on the slavage websites,great for a donor vehicle.

ive now got to get some bonafide info re shafts/hubs now
 
Tee Koo said:
Compared to the power and torque ratings to E15ET, MA09ERT doesn't have pretty much torque. E15ET has 114bhp stock when MA09ERT has 110bhp so they are pretty close to each other. E15ET stock torque is 164Nm when MA09ERT makes only something like 130-135Nm.
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Torque is related to displacement though. If the almost 1litre MA09ERT is producing 130Nm, then the E15T should be producing almost 1.5 times as much torque - which would be 195Nm. Now you see it is falling a bit short of the mark.
 
ohc_turbo said:
ma09 block wouldnt make it handle any more power than a ma10 block, it only in the extreem cases which a block would crack through power,
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I think the weak point is the headgasket. The bore walls are very thin on the MA12, and not much better on the MA10. But on the MA09 there is a notable difference. This allows the headgasket to be stronger and take the power.
 
Tee Koo said:
Compared to the power and torque ratings to E15ET, MA09ERT
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Snip....

So your comparing a 930cc Turbo engine, Against a 1.5 turbo engine?

Here I go again...

MA09ERT 930 x 1.7 bar (atm + boost) = 1581cc relative displacment.
E15ET 1.5 x 1.5 bar (atm + boost) = 2250 relative displacment.

Stock power on both:

MA09ERT 110bhp
E15ET 114bhp (4bhp more from a whole 669 extra CC!!)

Now stock torque. Torque is much closer related to engine capacity, so these will be different..

MA09ERT 133N/m (98 lb/ft)
E15ET 164N/m (120 lb/ft)

For those wondering how the E15ET has so much more torque but so little extra power, its due to the fact the E15ET is only efficient around 3000 rpm.

Ok So lets take the relative capcities and compare them for over all engine performance as if they were both 1.0 N/A engiens.

MA09ERT
BHP Per Liter 69.6 (Pretty good, not many 1.0 NA engines make nearly 70bhp)
Torque Per Liter 84.1 N/m (61lb/ft) Again pretty acceptably by NA standards.

E15ET
BHP Per Liter 50.57 (A MA10 NON turbo is in a higher state of tune than this engine WITH a turbo, how crazy is that)
Torque Per Liter 72.9 N/m (53 lb/ft) This is really not great.

Back to the point. If your going to compare engines - pick ones with the same capacity. Otherwise its pointless. I scaled both of these engines to equilivent 1.0 NA engines. And as you can see the E15ET in its standard from is poor in comparison.
My point in doing this is the MA09, which you said does not have great torque, is infact relativly VERY VERY good indeed - infact even with all the pipework produces the same equilivent torque as a 1.0 16V CG10 engine - thats pretty damn impressive considering its 7.7:1 compression ratio. You can scale any engine in this way to compare them. I do it all the time - It tells you ALOT of information once you remove the differences in engine size.

Currently, my MA09ERT produces around 210 N/m of torque and around 180bhp.

..............
Now ohc_turbo you seem to be commenting on my car as if you know something about it. Sorry if that seems rude. But your sweaping statments are wrong. The MA09 Block is PHYSICALLY stronger than the MA10. For a start, the bores on the MA09 are 2mm THICKER - thats allot of extra metal. They would distort alot less under high loads compared to a MA10.

You mention blocks cracking is what limits power. Godknows where you got that from, perhaps the days of old cast iron blocks, but typicaly a block will bend and warp before they crack (SR20DET for example). THAT is what limits the power - all else being ignored, as clearly when they warp you get failures such as head gaskets, ring and bore damage etc - and its very hard to solve.
 
Ed, you are right about the comparison, but I was just comparing how MA09ERT is compared to some other engine. In it's own class of engines below 1000cc it's just one perfect engine :) I would've also swapped the MA09ERT, but here in Finland we don't have any Superturbos and so there aren't any engines available. Of course, I could've bought and imported one from Japan for example, but E15ET was much cheaper because Cherry turbos were imported to Finland.

BTW, have anyone heard how much is the best power taken from MA09ERT? I've heard some 210-220hp ST:s from Japan but there must some better ones because there are 300+hp E15ET:s
 
Ed said:
)
Now ohc_turbo you seem to be commenting on my car as if you know something about it. Sorry if that seems rude. But your sweaping statments are wrong. The MA09 Block is PHYSICALLY stronger than the MA10. For a start, the bores on the MA09 are 2mm THICKER - thats allot of extra metal. They would distort alot less under high loads compared to a MA10.

You mention blocks cracking is what limits power. Godknows where you got that from, perhaps the days of old cast iron blocks, but typicaly a block will bend and warp before they crack (SR20DET for example). THAT is what limits the power - all else being ignored, as clearly when they warp you get failures such as head gaskets, ring and bore damage etc - and its very hard to solve.
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Ed, im was talking about the ma09ert in general, youre the only one i know on the board who has a super turbo but it aint aimed at you,sorry if you have got offended, i can visualise you having a red face while writing youre last post. youve said that the bore walls are very thick comparing them between other MA's which made me think you were talking about the other MA's impolding at anything other than 50-60bhp.
has anyone or has anyone heard of any problem with the ma10 or ma12 or taken a ma10et to the limit and said "damn this cant handle over 150bhp, i wish i had a ma09"

i suppose its stupid to say that you dont know that the ma09ert was buit to compete in the under 1.6 class and the made it just right cos its just under as youve said

MA09ERT 930 x 1.7 bar (atm + boost) = 1581cc relative displacment.

thats why didnt MR Nissan use a MA10ert.that would be cheaper for him to do

you are right though, i dont know much about MA engines but my lill micra 1.0 is not my first car and i have had many Nissan Turbos and non turbo from big to small before and you can use the same ole principals for all of them. im sure there is not much diffrence between the two bottom ends to be honest,. the bore wall thickness is just a byproduct of decreasing the displacement which is a bonus if there is a problem with the ma10-12. Do you know for sure that they actually made the bottom end stronger(apart from the bore wall thickness) in the ma09ert than the ma10et like putting beefier rods, oil squirters under the pistons for x-tra cooling and crank girdle for example.

its good to know the diffrence between the MA engines i doubt a MA09ERT would be a swap for anyone but a MA10ET might be for someone but its a shame the lumps still go for £1000, that would make even a SR20DE a cheap engine transpant or a E series or CA or GA
 
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