Engine swap?

Which engine would you go for?

  • CG13

    Votes: 5 38.5%

  • GA16

    Votes: 4 30.8%

  • SR20

    Votes: 2 15.4%

  • Zetec 2L Black Top

    Votes: 2 15.4%
  • Total voters
    13
  • Poll closed .
Sdperkins

Sdperkins

Hi guys,

I'm running the standard ma10 in my k10. However, I'm getting a little bored of the shortage of power and top end.
Carrying out an engine swap is way above my knowledge and skill set, let know having the correct tools and equipment for the job. So I'd have to pay someone to do it or it just becomes a dream not carried out.
If my understanding is correct you can fit a cg13 onto the ma10 gear box? But if I'm going to the length of swapping the engine I think I want to go for something more than a 1.3. I know if you stuck a turbo on it etc you'd get more from it.
I also know there is ga16 conversion but I'm unsure if that requires a different gear box or not? And I know some people on here have done an SR20 conversion but I don't know how much work is really required in order to get it working, as I know a lot of you do it yourself. And if you really know what your doing then you could but a 2L Subaru engine and the AWD system in the k10 but that's way way way above me!!!!!

My question is which would be best for money? I don't wish to swap the engine to think later on down the line, I wished I swapped it for something with a bit more power.
I've been looking at prices for different engines and found the following information
  • cg13 with low miles (under 4k it says) for around £650
  • ga16 anywhere from £200 upwards with mileage of 80k upwards
  • SR20 anywhere from £800 upwards with mileage of 100k upwards
Something else that is a little different....
  • Ford Zetec 2.0L Black Top which is about £850 brand new, comes with most parts but still requires extras, like gear box, loom, etc.
I understand the more power you put under the hood that you need to consider bigger brakes.
Something I don't wish to change are the alloys (13's) on my car, as silly as this may sound but I like them and don't wish to change them in order to fit bigger brakes or is this something that cannot be avoided.

I've created a poll to see what a majority of you would pick out of the options above.

I would appreciate all the help and information I can get.

Thanks in advance
 
I paid £26.02 for my cg13, you need a pre facelift cg10 flywheel and clutch. That will then bolt to the k10 box, you'd need to make a driver side mount, that's it.

If you turbo, and wanna keep
The same box (or cg10
Box, jus rotate gear linkage 90
Degrees) to keep mounts same and simple, you'd need to
Make a hybrid clutch out of a cg10 and cg13 LUK clutches, I think @frank said they are good for 140 ponies
 
Anything bigger than a cg13 is gunna be more weight and money, pointless, the cg13 is a good motor, try source a auto engine if possible
 
If you go all out then you can pick any engine. I'm contemplating a 3S-GTE motor next time around. They all require the same amount of effort in the end
Shafts, Loom and Mounts it's the recipe for any swap

If you're thinking future.. pick something you can upgrade just in case you get bored again
 
pork said:
I paid £26.02 for my cg13, you need a pre facelift cg10 flywheel and clutch. That will then bolt to the k10 box, you'd need to make a driver side mount, that's it.

If you turbo, and wanna keep
The same box (or cg10
Box, jus rotate gear linkage 90
Degrees) to keep mounts same and simple, you'd need to
Make a hybrid clutch out of a cg10 and cg13 LUK clutches, I think @frank said they are good for 140 ponies
Click to expand...
£26.02.... wtf!!! how on earth did you manage that!! lol
So your basically saying cg13 would be best for my money and if I get bored of the power, upgrade parts.. and tubro etc.
Would I need bigger brakes, and would they fit 13's?


h701micra said:
If you go all out then you can pick any engine. I'm contemplating a 3S-GTE motor next time around. They all require the same amount of effort in the end
Shafts, Loom and Mounts it's the recipe for any swap

If you're thinking future.. pick something you can upgrade just in case you get bored again
Click to expand...
Sounds crazy... just had a quick look at that engine and found one for £600 with around 45k mileage and comes with everything ready to drop in.... tempting!!!
 
Has anyone on here done a bike engine before? Not sure how practical that would be, and probably more work involved. Would be pretty cool to have a RWD micra
 
Sdperkins said:
Has anyone on here done a bike engine before? Not sure how practical that would be, and probably more work involved. Would be pretty cool to have a RWD micra
Click to expand...
Not me personally, but I have seen one built. A red preface K11 had a bike engine in the back and ran a 4WD system

Have a photo but cant upload at the mo
 
I've seen a couple of polo 6n on youtube that have RWD bike engines and they seem like that have got loads of power and they do sound nice. No idea what the top end is like.
 
What insurance company do you go with for an engine swap. I've been told by my current insurer, I wont be insured with an engine swap.
 
This may sound stupid but because I don't really know what I'm doing I've created a list of things to consider for an engine swap, unsure if I have everything.
After Andy suggested his next project with the MR2 engine, I did a quick search and found one that I cannot beat in price compared to the others I've researched. This engine is ready to drop in and comes with everything for £550. No idea if this will fit, so been thinking rear mounted engine? Anyway here's my list:
  • Engine bay restriction
  • Engine measurements
  • Engine position, front/rear mounted
  • FWD or RWD
  • Engine
  • Gearbox
  • Loom
  • Upgraded Brakes
  • Turbo
  • ECU
  • Engine mounts
  • Drive shafts
  • Power steering
  • Insurance
  • Road tax
  • Weight
  • Chassis stiffness
  • Roll cage
  • Engine cost
  • Labour cost
  • Parts cost
  • Gauges
  • Intercooler
  • Pipes
 
Rear mounted engine makes the project doubly complex from what it could be. They're no bigger than SR20 so will fit no problem. Only difference being the angle they mount at. MR2 / Celica was only a passing thought of a project for myself

With such a short wheel base the micra would be a handful at rear wheel drive with power/torque expected

One thing not on your list, that everyone seems to underestimate, is your suspension. The single most vital component to keeping a car on the road. With the changes in weight the standard setup is just not adequate enough.
I've seen many great n expensive cars turned into balls of scrap clinging to armco because suspension was overlooked in the fight for pure power

My list goes as follows
Get engine
Make my own measurements
Offer into place suitable in the x, y & z axis with drive shaft angle and mounting angle in mind
Fabricate mounts
That's the engine dealt with and in
Larger brakes
Take some corner weights
Suspension base setup
Chassis strengthening
Full engine setup
Re corner weight
Fine tune suspension
 
if your thinking about 3sgte seriously it would need some bracing the k10's are weak for huge power. jacking them up ffs you can see the flex :eek: i would stick to either CG/GA either of them are better suited plus the 3s engines aint a light one.
 
h701micra said:
With such a short wheel base the micra would be a handful at rear wheel drive with power/torque expected
Click to expand...

K10 wheelbase 2300mm
NA wheelbase 2265mm (NB is 2270)

Even a W20 is 2400mm so I wouldn't worry about the k10's wheelbase when it comes to rwd conversions
 
sr20bud said:
if your thinking about 3sgte seriously it would need some bracing the k10's are weak for huge power. jacking them up ffs you can see the flex :eek: i would stick to either CG/GA either of them are better suited plus the 3s engines aint a light one.
Click to expand...
Built correctly it will be fine.
In building the tunnel and structure for the Subaru K10 it gave a housing for the running gear and structural integrity
 
karlj said:
K10 wheelbase 2300mm
NA wheelbase 2265mm (NB is 2270)

Even a W20 is 2400mm so I wouldn't worry about the k10's wheelbase when it comes to rwd conversions
Click to expand...
Wheelbase size isn't my concern
We're talking twice the power of the mazda with 70% weight at the rear and half the weight total of the MR2. Believe me it'll be lively :p
 
h701micra said:
Rear mounted engine makes the project doubly complex from what it could be. They're no bigger than SR20 so will fit no problem. Only difference being the angle they mount at. MR2 / Celica was only a passing thought of a project for myself

With such a short wheel base the micra would be a handful at rear wheel drive with power/torque expected

One thing not on your list, that everyone seems to underestimate, is your suspension. The single most vital component to keeping a car on the road. With the changes in weight the standard setup is just not adequate enough.
I've seen many great n expensive cars turned into balls of scrap clinging to armco because suspension was overlooked in the fight for pure power

My list goes as follows
Get engine
Make my own measurements
Offer into place suitable in the x, y & z axis with drive shaft angle and mounting angle in mind
Fabricate mounts
That's the engine dealt with and in
Larger brakes
Take some corner weights
Suspension base setup
Chassis strengthening
Full engine setup
Re corner weight
Fine tune suspension
Click to expand...
I know the MR2 was just a thought for yourself, just when I saw the price of one it made me think this is cheap compared to the others I've researched. (haven't looked everywhere)
I just liked the idea of doing something different but I guess with my lack of knowledge maybe I should just stick to whats been done before.
I didn't list the suspension as I thought the polo coilovers would do the job to be honest?
 
there is mixed opinions on the polo coilys not to sure myself as i never got round to fitting them i just sold mine cant remember who to it might of been pork? anyway dude do give up lack of knowledge means nothing its all a learning curve anyway thats how most start out even guys without mechanical knowledge. think about it this way cg's take a fair bit of messing to get in so any engine is going to take some cutting, welding and wiring ect. just have a good think then go in with a clear head. i would say something different would be a 4age or beams 3sge not to forget the little 4efte. or what about a screaming honda lump? b16 or a Frankenstein b16 head on a b20 block? stuff like that is a bit different imo and would be a killer on the track.
 
Sdperkins said:
I know the MR2 was just a thought for yourself, just when I saw the price of one it made me think this is cheap compared to the others I've researched. (haven't looked everywhere)
I just liked the idea of doing something different but I guess with my lack of knowledge maybe I should just stick to whats been done before.
I didn't list the suspension as I thought the polo coilovers would do the job to be honest?
Click to expand...
Nooo I mean it was just a thought for me... meaning I'm not going to be doing it, just a thought. You feel free to do it :) free country afterall

Bolting on coilovers isnt a be and end all to handling, suspension is more complex than any other aspect of car building and there's no definitive answers to one problem
Just be to sure to have modified in a safe manner, and if you can afford it.. re-rate them so that the springs are matched to the weight you're throwing around

Dont stick to what's been done before, if you've got time and patience you can achieve whatever you set out to
 
h701micra said:
Nooo I mean it was just a thought for me... meaning I'm not going to be doing it, just a thought. You feel free to do it :) free country afterall

Bolting on coilovers isnt a be and end all to handling, suspension is more complex than any other aspect of car building and there's no definitive answers to one problem
Just be to sure to have modified in a safe manner, and if you can afford it.. re-rate them so that the springs are matched to the weight you're throwing around

Dont stick to what's been done before, if you've got time and patience you can achieve whatever you set out to
Click to expand...
Ok so the coilovers aren't a waste then, just will need the springs re-rated with a heavier engine?
I will have to see what kind of labor is involved and may do the MR2 engine provided no one buys it by the time I'm ready. If the MR2 comes with the gearbox and I keep the car FWD would it require a different gearbox? Just a thought as the MR2 has it rear mounted. Another thought you may know the answer to, but if the car has a roll cage would that not improve the structural strength of the car enough to couple with such an engine? Or am I getting that wrong?
 
sr20bud said:
there is mixed opinions on the polo coilys not to sure myself as i never got round to fitting them i just sold mine cant remember who to it might of been pork? anyway dude do give up lack of knowledge means nothing its all a learning curve anyway thats how most start out even guys without mechanical knowledge. think about it this way cg's take a fair bit of messing to get in so any engine is going to take some cutting, welding and wiring ect. just have a good think then go in with a clear head. i would say something different would be a 4age or beams 3sge not to forget the little 4efte. or what about a screaming honda lump? b16 or a Frankenstein b16 head on a b20 block? stuff like that is a bit different imo and would be a killer on the track.
Click to expand...
Yeah I've thought about a couple before, its just a matter of what I can find for the right price.
 
i was tempted to do a zetec conversion at one point just because of the tuning parts available and i think there not bad engines to work on :)
 
Sdperkins said:
Ok so the coilovers aren't a waste then, just will need the springs re-rated with a heavier engine?
I will have to see what kind of labor is involved and may do the MR2 engine provided no one buys it by the time I'm ready. If the MR2 comes with the gearbox and I keep the car FWD would it require a different gearbox? Just a thought as the MR2 has it rear mounted. Another thought you may know the answer to, but if the car has a roll cage would that not improve the structural strength of the car enough to couple with such an engine? Or am I getting that wrong?
Click to expand...
They're oversprung from the factory if you get the cheaper sets. They may be more comfortable with the heavier engine :)
But that's something I can help you wish if you wish when the time comes
Gearbox will be fine its just the linkage you need to fabricate as normal. MR2s have a cable setup to change gears

It certainly would. But a roll cage isnt the be and end all to chassis stiffening, stitch welding or seam welding, gussets and beams all play a part
K10s have a very soft, weak roof. Gusseting the cage to the roof and adding the X brace in the roof part of the cage will help
The front chassis legs can do with an upper brace, strategically placed as not to hinder their structural fold design :)
I 've put some steel tubing in the sill recently after watching a video of a mini being built, and strengthened them there and giving good anchor points too
You can go mental with it, but you have to consider the weight penalty.
Although 3S-GTE will handle a stiffened K10 no problem
 
would be awesome to a see a 3sgte k10 would be even better to see a 4wd k10 3sgte :cool: i say go for it like h701micra said bit of stiffening it will be right :)
 
Sdperkins said:
Ok so the coilovers aren't a waste then, just will need the springs re-rated with a heavier engine?
I will have to see what kind of labor is involved and may do the MR2 engine provided no one buys it by the time I'm ready. If the MR2 comes with the gearbox and I keep the car FWD would it require a different gearbox? Just a thought as the MR2 has it rear mounted. Another thought you may know the answer to, but if the car has a roll cage would that not improve the structural strength of the car enough to couple with such an engine? Or am I getting that wrong?
Click to expand...
The mr2 gearbox will work but u will need parts from the celica box using the linkage and drillin few holes,
 
Ok well I'm defo more into getting this engine now, would the roll cage be something you can help me out with? or I can ask a couple of places near me and see what the cost is like.
 
think they are the same way round just because its mid engine either the selector cables are longer or the selectors themselves are different and need modding or swapping? i really cant remember its been that long lol. i would personally go for the 4wd box and go for 4wd its not really that hard if your nifty with a welder and handy with fabrication but fwd 3sgte even a ge would be nuts in a k10. :eek: i was going to go with the 3sgte with mine but at the time was just pissed off with a lot of things and just bought a corolla instead but i can say i regret losing the k10 if i had space i would 100% have another one they are so much fun haha
 
sr20bud said:
think they are the same way round just because its mid engine either the selector cables are longer or the selectors themselves are different and need modding or swapping? i really cant remember its been that long lol. i would personally go for the 4wd box and go for 4wd its not really that hard if your nifty with a welder and handy with fabrication but fwd 3sgte even a ge would be nuts in a k10. :eek: i was going to go with the 3sgte with mine but at the time was just pissed off with a lot of things and just bought a corolla instead but i can say i regret losing the k10 if i had space i would 100% have another one they are so much fun haha
Click to expand...
U should go with 3sgte corolla might be something what will fit easy and make a big Diffrents, it's the cost behind power and handing, mainly insurance
 
would of done but the corolla ended up going as well lol way way to much need replacing and i had no choice to keep it in the gateway at my mums field but the neighbors started wining on about it so it had to go as i didn't have anywhere else for it and if it had gone on the field it would of only been smashed up by kids. ive got an mx5 now so going to be toying with that for a while :)

i know a few people who have done the 3sgte into a corolla and they are completely bonkers haha would love to see a 4wd one done but guess money and sometimes thought of it puts people off. k10 would be seriously cool though lowered and ultra wide although a sleeper would be pretty sweet as well
 
Subaru 4WD for me
Love Toyota setup but I prefer that Subaru sound

Celica has a traditional linkage setup seen in many cars
MR2 has a complex cable setup to use the same gearbox in the rear
The gearboxes themselves are identical :)
 
sr20bud said:
think they are the same way round just because its mid engine either the selector cables are longer or the selectors themselves are different and need modding or swapping? i really cant remember its been that long lol. i would personally go for the 4wd box and go for 4wd its not really that hard if your nifty with a welder and handy with fabrication but fwd 3sgte even a ge would be nuts in a k10. :eek: i was going to go with the 3sgte with mine but at the time was just pissed off with a lot of things and just bought a corolla instead but i can say i regret losing the k10 if i had space i would 100% have another one they are so much fun haha
Click to expand...
I would love to do this myself but sadly I dont know how to weld so I'd need someone else to fab everything up for me, which will cost. 4WD would be awesome but I don't know how much of a difference in price that would be to do.
 
Sdperkins said:
I would love to do this myself but sadly I dont know how to weld so I'd need someone else to fab everything up for me, which will cost. 4WD would be awesome but I don't know how much of a difference in price that would be to do.
Click to expand...
Expect it tripled
Mounting an engine requires little fab work
Mounting a 4WD system in a proper manner that will be strong enough to last takes a whole load more.
You'll spend the same amount planning the firewall back as you would building the whole front end
 
h701micra said:
Expect it tripled
Mounting an engine requires little fab work
Mounting a 4WD system in a proper manner that will be strong enough to last takes a whole load more.
You'll spend the same amount planning the firewall back as you would building the whole front end
Click to expand...
Does 4wd take the rear axle of the car we plan to use, example u are using Subaru engine and the full drivetrain on yours, can't anyone just bolt any engines in and using any 4wd on it? what if the 4wd rear axle is very long and comes out about 5inch ? Each tyres?
 
Azzydot said:
Does 4wd take the rear axle of the car we plan to use, example u are using Subaru engine and the full drivetrain on yours, can't anyone just bolt any engines in and using any 4wd on it? what if the 4wd rear axle is very long and comes out about 5inch ? Each tyres?
Click to expand...
Welcome to car building, all questions you have to answer yourself and prepare and execute a plan to overcome such problems

I'm using the full WRX running gear and wont be modifying any of that so I can use any available Subaru component.
No-one can just bolt a 4WD system onto a micra, its impossible, everything will need to be fabricated to suit the running gear and car in a balanced manner. Ie bolting on a subframes without so much as scratching a chassis member so the shells structural integrity remains intact...
Its a very hard task to complete and one not to be taken lightly. You'll spend more time planning and trial fitting than you will building. If you expect to have it complete in a week then it'll fall apart, guaranteed. I gave myself a year to build Nissanubaru and I might have done it within that year if I didnt keep switching projects
 
h701micra said:
Welcome to car building, all questions you have to answer yourself and prepare and execute a plan to overcome such problems

I'm using the full WRX running gear and wont be modifying any of that so I can use any available Subaru component.
No-one can just bolt a 4WD system onto a micra, its impossible, everything will need to be fabricated to suit the running gear and car in a balanced manner. Ie bolting on a subframes without so much as scratching a chassis member so the shells structural integrity remains intact...
Its a very hard task to complete and one not to be taken lightly. You'll spend more time planning and trial fitting than you will building. If you expect to have it complete in a week then it'll fall apart, guaranteed. I gave myself a year to build Nissanubaru and I might have done it within that year if I didnt keep switching projects
Click to expand...

yeh must be a very hard project cutting and lots of welding, what is Diffrents with k10 and k11 engine bay, are they simlar or would u say k10 is bigger ?
 
Azzydot said:
yeh must be a very hard project cutting and lots of welding, what is Diffrents with k10 and k11 engine bay, are they simlar or would u say k10 is bigger ?
Click to expand...
K10 is wider in general. Engine bay approx 2 inches wider... although I dont think anyone has ever really checked
 

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