Check engine light flashing, car non starter - help plz!

reflexuk

reflexuk

Just gone to my micra and its engine starts and runs for only 5 seconds. The check engine light is flashing from the moment the ingnition is turned on - before the starter is even cranked. I've seen this type of behaviour before (June ish), it was the immobiliser, but then I was trying to mix ecu keys and ignition barrel and transponders around. The car went to Nissan dealership to be taught 'this is your new key' and it's been rock solid reliable since then.

What should I do to get it running?
 
Lots of things checked, found a blown fuse for the cig lighter socket. Might try unplugging that nats box on the A pillar in the nearside footwell. Last time I didn't have that connected the car would run, but with the CEL flashing constantly, it was only when I plugged it back in again that it wouldn't. Then it wouldn't run either way lol. Blinkin pain in the a*se this NATS.
 
Well, it's the weirdest thing. I went to the car this morning to tow it to the dealership. I started the car and used the 5 seconds to reverse it into a position then attached the tow rope to both vehicles. I went back to it and the CEL had stopped flashing! Naturally I turned the key, the engine started and stayed running. Problem solved, seemingly. It's the first real problem that stopped the car from running in 6 months. I don't understand what's happened, or what to do to prevent it happening again. Scary.
 
my old sr used to do that, did it 3 times, had to get it reset every time, just happened for no reason.

where in chesterfield are you mate?
 
Today I used the car 5 or 6 times for sub 10 minute journeys and it worked faultlessly every time. This gave me the confidence to set off on a 100mile trip I needed to make. The car ran great all the way. 20mins after arriving I needed to go onward. I got into the car, turned the key and the CEL was flashing again. I turn the ignition on and off 25 times without cranking the starter. I had tried disconnecting the 12v for a few minutes (to no avail) last night. It didn't do anything to rectify the situation. I rang for a lift and gave up on the car again.:(

I came back to it at midnight tonight and turned the ignition on. The CEL flashed 4 times then lit solidly. I cranked the engine, it fired, the light went out and the engine stayed running. WHAT THE HECK IS GOING ON?

I made a couple of small adjustments to the car on Sunday. I wonder if I could have caused the problem. I had the throttle body off, checked the TPS resistance and altered the resting position of the IAV. I also changed the ignition timing 2mm on the distributor. Since then the tickover revs have been consistently lower and the engine is quicker to return to that idle speed when approaching a junction. It also makes more power and has returned to a reasonable fuel economy. I found that my IAV, although free, was not fully closing off the window. This is my own silly fault for turning it with the engine running one day to 'see what it would do.' The engine now seems to need some throttle aplication to cold start, before I could just turn the key. It also seems to start running on 3 cylinders, but only for a few seconds.
Could anything I have changed or this missfire be causing this Check Engine condition?
 
it appears to be the nats, the ecu simply fails and to have it fully sorted can cost 400+ as nissan, but give us a call at fusion motorsport and we can help you out with an ECU which has the NATS removed so no more problems.
 
Thanks for the reply will930. No offence intended to Ed or Fusion Motorsport but I find the price of said ECU to be higher than I think it should be and much higher than I'm willing to pay. It IS an option, thanks. But sadly not for the Grape.
 
Check the ignition switch, had this with a previous Micra and found due to the ignition key being on a large bunch of other keys the hanging weight caused all sorts of starting issues. Tried alsorts to fix it, in the end put the key on its own key ring and some wd40 in the lock solved it!
 
Thanksfor the advice. The key has only a rubber fob on it. I will go unplug replug the ign barrel and spray it. See if it resolves. The car isn't getting much use right now so I can't report how it's developing. It's a b*mmer to contemplate getting stranded nearly everywhere you stop the engine though eh:(
 
my NATS ecu only once blinked when a monsoon and a leak had flooded n shorted out the ECU board. once dried n cleaned it worked fine
http://www.micra.org.uk/threads/pollymobiles-rebuild.35251/#post-381119

my ignition key switch used to stick or have dirty worn contacts.

symptoms were:
eng light stays solid during IGN/engine off (so nats system checking ok),
then you crank start the engine.
when you release the key, the engine and dash lights turns off (switch is neither contacting the START nor IGN state)
but if you apply a slight anti-clock pressure to move the switch back towards IGN it keeps running ok.

here I cleaned up the switch
http://www.micra.org.uk/threads/pollymobiles-rebuild.35251/page-29#post-460614

it eventually started playing up again cos it was too worn so replacing with a newer facelift switch fixed it
 
reflexuk said:
Thanks for the reply will930. No offence intended to Ed or Fusion Motorsport but I find the price of said ECU to be higher than I think it should be and much higher than I'm willing to pay. It IS an option, thanks. But sadly not for the Grape.
Click to expand...

thats fine but its loose change compared to getting it sorted by nissan, its quick and easy and if it gets the car working again and reliably cant complain :)
 
Tried to get the grape running today.

Ignition barrel unplugged an replugged. No issues found there.

Underside ECU. Evidence of it having been wetat sometime
20121220_122504.jpg


Inside top looks fine
20121220_123259.jpg


Inside bottom no evidence of wetness
20121220_122757.jpg


There was the tiniest bit of white corrosion residue inside the bottom case but none on the circuit board.
 
So I checked elsewhere
20121220_121633.jpg


There are no corroded spade terminals and everything looks fine underneath too
The main engine fuse has been replaced with some wire link that has gotten quite hot at sometime though
 
So I decided to pull the plugs. They are pictred in their respective cylinder positions
20121220_132534.jpg

the brown marks caused me some concern

Then look at their noses
20121220_132559.jpg


Last time I looked, just after the incident in the ford, they were biscuit brown.
Something looks wrong to me, I guess I'm burning oil yes?
Dipstick was low though I havn't put any in since service in april. No mayo under the cap, no evidence of oil in the coolant either.

I also doubt any of this would cause immobilisation, if that is indeed my issue.
 
Im sad nobody suggested I dig up the immobiliser control unit from the passenger A pillar in the footwell. I remembered it so decided to take a look
Correct me if I'm wrong but as I understand it this bit is home to the key code and an ecu code. All three have to match for the NATS to allow the car to run.
20121221_141213.jpg

Soaked. How did it work like this?

Inside
20121221_143237.jpg

20121221_143224.jpg


Dried it out and reftted it - No joy same symptoms
Tried starting the car with it disconected - still no joy
For a moment there I honestly thought it was going to run. Feeling quite demoralised with it.
 
reflexuk said:
I dried it with a cloth, then warm air, then a shot of Wd40.



No not yet. What is 'the antenna problem' Frank?
Click to expand...
the little box around the barrel mate, transducer thingy that energizes the keychip and reads the code off it (there are many nissan threads, almera/primera etc)
 
It took a long time but I've finally sorted it.

I was convinced the problem was going to be in the wet immobiliser continuity box.

I towed the car to a garage who took a week to get around to looking at it and couldn't fix it. They gave it me back saying their immobilizer equipment didn't go old enough for NATS2.

Then I bought a replacement Immob Cont Box and had a automotive locksmith on it who spent a couple of hours looking it over couldn't communicate with it using any of his equipment and couldn't suggest any way forward.

Another auto locksmith (who was miles and miles away) suggested I transplant the big chip in the middle of the board onto my replacement Immob Cont Box. That part would host my ECU and Key codes. It sounded plausible to me but looked impossible to achieve.

I gave both boxes to my friend who works in the electronics industry and told him what I wanted. He took a look and said he'd first like to have a go at fixing the original board. Ok I said.

This is what he gave me back to 'try.'
20130226_153856_zps53fd5b38.jpg

He said he'd found a number of reasons why it wouldn't have worked.
Several broken tracks, one on the board and 3 that go 'through' the board ie between circuits on top to those on the bottom - hence the link wires.
A couple of broken surface mount resistors.
A wobbly leg on the input plug contacts meet the board.
20130226_153914_zps97141694.jpg

So I plug it in and guess what! It works again! I've mounted it higher and upside down so it can't happen again ;-)
Just goes to show dunnit?
 
98twister said:
If your car is pre-facelift, check the fuel injection fuse and its connectors in the fusebox near the battery.
Very prone to damp.
Click to expand...

Interestingly, when investigating the fuse box near the battery, AGAIN. I discovered my car doesn't have a fuse in that position 98twister. But it doesn't stop it working.

I have also replaced that scabby burnt link wire with a proper 60a fuse.
 
reflexuk said:
Interestingly, when investigating the fuse box near the battery, AGAIN. I discovered my car doesn't have a fuse in that position 98twister. But it doesn't stop it working.

I have also replaced that scabby burnt link wire with a proper 60a fuse.
Click to expand...

Looking at your pic, there seem to be a lot of red wires floating around near that fusebox!
Often people tap into the wiring and add a standalone blade fuse holder when the fusebox corrodes. One of the headlight fuses had been done like that on our 96 K11.
The legs corroded away from the fuel injection fuse body causing cutout after a few seconds along with MIL 141, 143. Luckily, a clean up of the holder and new fuse sorted it.

Had someone replaced a 60A fuse with a piece of wire?:eek:
 
98twister said:
Looking at your pic, there seem to be a lot of red wires floating around near that fusebox!

Had someone replaced a 60A fuse with a piece of wire?:eek:
Click to expand...

Yes, it had been replaced with that luverly burnt blue piece!
Those reds you mention come straight from the 12V +ve. One is for a cooling fan override switch on the dash and the other is for a permanent live terminal in the absent glovebox for navigator goodies such as Interior light, Avanti map light, Clock and Potti.

Interestingly I have still never plucked up the courage to have a go at reading any of those flashing light based MIL codes. I don't know where to look for the light and I'm never sure which two pins to connect in the obd port! I look around in the ecu and can't see a hole with an adjacent led and weren't some of the obd ports fitted upside down too? Now where is that post about this?
 
reflexuk said:
http://www.fusion-motorsport.co.uk/...information/7-reading-nissan-fault-codes.html

Just been to have a go at this, mine complies with Eds guide above. I got codes 141,143 and 146. Then I cleared them and got 55 (no faults). I guess we'll see which come back!
Click to expand...

That's the method I used to get the codes.
141 and 143 I had, caused by the split fuel injection fuse. It is marked on the fusebox and FUEL INJ or something similar. 96 K11 is long gone, so can't check.
I think the legs were electricically in contact with the fuse body before startup and the engine vibrations on startup caused them to lose contact and cut the car out.

Someone else on here had the same errors and it was a corroded ECU. Quite obviously corroded if I remember.
 
Unless I'm mistaken fault code 146 is due to the absence of an airbag. It's hard to find anything on the codes in this number range though my research keeps pointing to 141 and 143 are immobiliser faults, which mine, obviously recently had.

IIRC I have a fuse holder with an unknown purpose in that vicinity. Perhaps someone bypassed the potential corrosion issue there in the cars past.?
 
Looking at the bodge on the 60A fuse, how well has the fuel injection fuse been bypassed?
Have you not got the fuse box cover with the labels on?

It was several years ago I had those faults. It was my post on the Ilexa forum that sometimes gets referenced on here.
I don't know if the fuse problem creates a 'false' ECU error.
I know of other people on here that have had this caused by the fuse/holder and at least one that had a corroded ECU.

I can't find any manuals or wiring diagrams online. Few references to the 14x errors either.
I guess the injectors are pulsed by the ECU. Where the voltage on the injection fuse comes into this I don't know. Unless the ECU pulses ground signals?
There must be some sort of fuel injection feedback on the ECU that is being tripped?????
 

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