CG10 finetuning advice (Cams, Headers, Injectors, ECU?)

[LordJunk]

Hello Micramaniacs,
I have mine since 2017 and started to like it more and more the longer i have it. Not as a sportscar but as a small extraordinary comfortable (and reliable) car (especially for its size) that you can rev to the limit every now and then without worrying.

it's a preFL 1.0 from '97 with racing stripes! yes they give +5 HP (or minus 5)?



it revs continously/steady to high revs on low speeds, without torquepeaks, but max speed seems really hard to reach. I barely get 145km/h in fifth gear. 4th gear seems to go easier towards 160km/h (Speedreadings on tachometer, gps might be ~10km/h less). Under the right circumstances the 4th even get's to the rev limiter = ~165km/h


now back to topic:
I already swapped the cams against 1.3 cams. didn't feel a difference. I try to use VMAX to determine powergains. With Both 1.3 cams it feels all the same.
Overall it feels like less torque down below.
I'm often testing full throttle in 2.gear on a closed place where i can go ~20-60km/h. without anyone bothering. Just a few pushes...
the 1.0 Cams seemed to pull better, they could surprisingly push me in the chair. Idunno how that makes sense ?

What else i tried:
GA16DE injectors. ->no big difference.
new exhaust (muffler) -> no big difference
as of now, i have a magnaflow M6 Muffler (which is surprisingly quiet an nice, despite it's big look) -> no big difference
GA16 Airbox ->get's a little louder. fit a K&N in it, gets a little more louder... but nothing serious, at least nothing that i notice from the inside.

latest: put on a 4-2-1 Header i found used. nothing written on it, no info about it. Has the oxygen sensor between cylinder 1&4. which i don't like an gonna fix sometime.


put it on and it seems to gain a little more power, especially on higher speeds. felt like it get faster to VMAX. but not much.
found out later that it was a little leaky at the connecting Tubes to the cat.

I fixed that for now with some Exhaust paste. havent tried VMAX yet but 20-60pulls -> and there is a problem: It get's damn loud around 4000rpm like Motorcycleloud but it's coming from the front. Not sure if it was the header or just intake sounds.
as it's a dizzy model i tried playing with the Ignitiontiming -> retarding get's louder and pulls worse // advancing the timing gets faster and the rpm range where it's loud decreases

replaced the GA Aribox with the original CG airbox -> the sound is getting quieter.

checked spark plugs (NGK iridiums) they seem to get hot. the white ceramic seems reddish. running to lean?



Of course the old ECU'S don't help much. figuring out the issue. It just shows an AF-Base of 100 (sometime ~105 or ~98) and O2Sensor seems to do fine jumping around like usual.

Idle is "coughing" a little. And not much adjustable since i swapped the cams. Too much vacuum maybe?


The Questions:
1. Is it possible that a little CG10 micra makes loud intake noises after swapping the exhaust manifold? or coud the manifold have a serious leak?
Problem is: it's only loud under load. I can't listen closer while driving.

2. running lean: should i put in GA16 injectors or get a 1.3 ECU?

Or should i even put the CG10 cams back in or only the CG10 exhaust Cam?


As of now, after trying so many things, it seems to me that the ECU might be the best tuning even for stock engines.
3. how good would a CG13 ECU be? might work harmonically with the 1.3cams?
get a nistune or even a standalone ECU. Recommendations?

4. how high could a stock CG10 rev given a good ECU setup? when do Valves start bounce?


My Main Goal is not max power. But a little more spice. Higher efficiency on the way would be really really appreciated!

efficient at low revs an going very high revs if wanted maybe i should've bought something with VTEC ?

 

[.Maarten]

1.3 cams give a bit but not much.
Id start with checking the timing and put it at 17 degrees. Ive seen them at 10 degrees instead of the factory 15 due to worn chain/tentioners. Setting the timing and idle speed correctly can give alot of driveability

 

[frank]

the cams should have made a noticeable difference, are your lobes set like this ?
and i deleted the road speed signal to the ecu on mine , to cure the lean burn on acceleration

K11 1.0L with 1.3 cams wont start?

Hi there guys, I'm bit of a noob when it comes to engines and that type of stuff (self learner) so I need your help here. I have fitted cams from a 1.3L Micra into mine which is 1.0L. Done everything like it was was for example the chain and position of it I made sure it was in the same spot as...

www.micra.org.uk

 

[LordJunk]

The car is well maintained. timing was at raoundabout ~15° btdc. I tried different setting prior changing cams and the Exhaust manifold, and it felt like it would accelerate faster, but behave much worse if it goes uphill or if the car is loaded.

The chain is not worn. i chainged it a few years ago. The old chain was very slacky.

are your lobes set like this ?

Would it run at all, if the cams were installed wrong? ?

The timing is adjustable perfectly as it needs to be. Checked it with a timing light. And as the Distributor is connected to the Exhaust cam, it should be positioned right, shouldn't it be?

i deleted the road speed signal to the ecu on mine , to cure the lean burn on acceleration

That's interesting, read it somewhere before. Was it done by just unscrewing one screw from the dashboard?
Any sideeffects i should be aware of? I mean, there must be a good reason the fine Engineers at Nissan did this.


And how is the difference between 1.3 intake & 1.0 exhaust cams combined versus both cams 1.0 or 1.3 ?

I would consider "downgrading" to the 1.0 exhaust cam if it gets less "loud". Although i have to admit, that the engine overall seemed quieter with both 1.3 cams compared to 1.0.

 

[frank]

Would it run at all, if the cams were installed wrong? ?




That's interesting, read it somewhere before. Was it done by just unscrewing one screw from the dashboard?
Any sideeffects i should be aware of? I mean, there must be a good reason the fine Engineers at Nissan did this.

yes plenty of threads on here with lumpy idle and low power after a cam change, try a search on lobes in my username
and the forced closed looping at lower speeds is there to protect the cat on long steep hills imo

 

[LordJunk]

the forced closed looping at lower speeds is there to protect the cat on long steep hills imo

is that the reason the car might feel slower once the engine is hot as well?
Open loop on cold engine?
It feels snappier when it's cold. But of course the idle speed while it's cold is higher too.

Could be a dirty mod to put in a switch that shows the ecu a colder temperature value ? should only be used for short periods.

i'll try to check the cams in the next time... would it be worth going back to the 1.0 exhaust cam while at it?

 

[frank]

i had a switch on the coolant temp sensor, and did some back to back dyno runs
the 1.3 exh cam probably gives a gain, just not as much as the inlet imo

Advance timing - Cisco's Micra Files

www.micra.com.au

 

[Craig]

1.0 to 1.3 cams should give a noticeable bump beyond 4k or so (were the lobe profiles clearly different between the two sets), what mileage is on the engine?

Sounds like you've an exhaust leak too which won't help things.

Craig

 

[LordJunk]

were the lobe profiles clearly different between the two sets

yes, definitely. Measured they have about 1,5mm more lift. They must be the 1.3 Cams.

The engine has ~170k km (~100k miles), always starts without hesitation, even with the old battery and starter.
never measured compression tho...

i had a switch on the coolant temp sensor, and did some back to back dyno runs

whatever i can think of, you already tried ?

 

[frank]

yes, definitely. Measured they have about 1,5mm more lift. They must be the 1.3 Cams.

The engine has ~170k km (~100k miles), always starts without hesitation, even with the old battery and starter.
never measured compression tho...


whatever i can think of, you already tried ?

here,s the dyno printout, went mega rich then held at 13ish afr
you can see the erratic closed looping on the other 2 runs

Fixing AFR

I have a cg13 on a cg10 with a opened port head and my afr on high rpm raizes alot, any cheap way to fix my afr in high rpm? Enviado do meu MI 5 através do Tapatalk

www.micra.org.uk

 

[LordJunk]

tried to check the lobes... it's actually really hard to tell by looking at the lobes.
Checking the timing marks is easier and it's set right:


the lobes:





The exhaust sound:

the coughing is hearable, though it's a very low tone and my mobiles Camera/Mic isn't suited ideally for the job. It might be misfiring. Can't tell for sure.
you can hear it best at the end:
https://streamable.com/i0jthf

it's much louder at the front under the engine bay:
https://streamable.com/1uovn8


i can barely set the idle rpm lower than ~700. (Idle adjusterscrew fully in; TPS unplugged for adjustment mode, ign. timing set to ~15°btdc):


turning on the light lowers it:


i don't think it's a vacuum leak.?
faulty IACV/AACV maybe?

 

[frank]

cam timing looks ok eh, assuming it was the 2nd notch on the crank pulley

 

[LordJunk]

it was the 2nd notch more or less. not perfectly as it depends on the angle you look etc...

 

[LordJunk]

Been long. there happend quite a few ting in the meantime:

Exhaust cam is now the original one from 1.0.
now: 1.3 IN and 1.0 EX
Idle is much better now.

before swapping back, i did a few test runs and with 1.3 IN & 1.3 EX (and the 4-2-1 header) it felt like Peaq torque was at 5.5k rpm and going.
but it's barely useful on the street. i mean 5,5k rpm @2nd gear is ~80km/h (50mph) not really useful for the street.

With 1.3 IN and 1.0 EX it's not that much different. Peaq torque maybe at 5k rpm. But not pulling as much as with the 1.3EX.
obviously low rev are a dip.
below 2k rpm it's quite random. sometimes pulls better sometimes worse.
from 2k to 5k it feel like a steady curve. nothing really special.

I think 1.0 IN and 1.0EX was way more fun from 2k to 5k. (even without 4-2-1 header)


What felt really torqy down low, was 1.3IN & 1.3EX & 1.3 ECU and a little bit of advanceed timing (not much, maybe ~19° btdc, i didn't measure, was just playing around with it)
that didn't work with the 1.0 ECU and 1.3 Cams.
but as far as i remember 1.0 ECU and stock 1.0 Cams did have the same effect. Maybe it's the injection timing and Valve opening that plays a role here.



i haven't fittled much with the cams afterwards.
Because Times have changed. And so did our goals.
Max power from CG10 is not the main goal right now.
The goal now is, what the CG10 has been intended for, from the start.
Economy! & Efficiency!


i read a lot on ecomodder.com and some more internet research.

Whats possible?
Mainly driving style, though there ain't much to improve, without radical steps, as i often drive like a granny anyway.
Engine... but what? it's the same as with trying max performance, easier flow, advanced ignition, ... thinner oil is the only thing worth experimenting (for now)
weight... yeah, well i already have the Eco version with no extras. so not much to improve. This would only get really expensive (carbon fibre parts etc..) or really uncomfortable (taking out everything).

last, least and most important: Aerodynamic or as i like to call it €rodynamic
Changes mainly the look of the car, not restricting any usability. possible to make subtle changes, with big effects.

i started with looking at the front:


there are lots of gaps. cooling gaps. but to cool what? if at all, the CG10 is running too cool. 4Cylinders with 1 litre capacity. that's what motorcycles usually have, that rev much higher
i don't have AC so half of the cooling intake is just a waste. Working like a parachute.



after a few experimental months this is what i think is safe to use (easily in the winter. And at normal speeds and low temperatures in Summer):



For hot days right now, i took off the upper part (seems fine so far):

Water temps are at 87°C while normal cruising. gets hotter if you wait for a traffic light, but the fan kicks in at 95° and keeps it below 100°C.


i uesd 0.8mm aluminium sheet. Easy to work with and durable for outside use. lightweight as well and not expensive.

also undertray:



a selfmade heatshield for the header:


relatively flat wheelcaps (from a nissan sunny):


and as cherry on top: a spoiler



Some little things (no pictures):
Gearbox oil is synthethic GL4 75W80 (Ravenol MTF2)
Tire pressure is at the amount for maximum load (2.5 & 2.4 bar)
Amsoil coolant booster is added (similar to water wetter)
Hot air intake-> simply disconnected the intake from the airbox. (has the benefit of sucking hot air from the engine bay, AND bruning less fuel.


the result (with some backwind and going downhill):

obviuosly not the Economy goal?
Water even got above 107°C.
But cooled down quickly when going back to normal speeds.

usually the max i could get und good conditions was 170... under normal conditions barely 140 at 5th gear

How i know about the exact watertemperature? i started using a computer with ECUtalk:

and it seems to be quite accurate, but i will have to check after a few fill ups.