1990 K10 Fuel problem

K

K1Shane

Hi there, my girlfriends 998cc k10 micra has recently developed a stutter when she tries to accelerate.

I've been and taken it out for a spin. it seems with the clutch down it'll pretty much rev freely. but when in gear such as pulling away or out of a junction, it stutters and judders.

Ive checked the plugs, leads, air filter. plugs were ok, starting to get black deposits on the tips, leads are almost new so they are fine. air filter is still fairly clean.

I found the fuel filter attched to the wall of the engine bay, it finally came off with some wd40, it seems fairly clean too.

the car will start 85% of the time, and idles fine. but i cant work out where the hesitation is coming from.

Whilst i had the air filter off, i was looking down the chamber and noticed if i rev hard its fine but softly it sounds blocked. Without sounding any more stupid, would this be the sole cause? a blocked injector?

if so would i be ok to just giv it a good ol' soak with some carb cleaner and see how it goes or will it need stripping? if so it'll have to go to someone as im not supremely confident on doing that myself. im confident with basic servicing etc but i've never dealt with a carb before so its all new to me lol

any help is much appreciated as i want to get the mrs back on the road again.

thanks
Shane
 
take dizzy cap off spray wd40 in it, and all over the ignition components, in the end of the leads everywhere, i gaurentee it will go away
 
Change the dizzy cap and rotor arm as they tend to wear our before the service interval anyway. You won't need to do any stripping unless your into kinky stuff like that :p

Cap and rotor arm are no more than £5 each, very simple job too so you don't need a garage to do it. Just make sure you swap over the leads from the old cap to the new cap one at a time so you don't mix em up and you'll be sorted. (Y)
 
I had similar symptoms with my 998 K10 stuttering etc. My thread clicky
i got my stuff from halfords off the shelf dizzy cap was £7 rota arm was £7 new nissan HT leads were £17 sound abit expensive all in one go but the old leads n stuff were 20 years old and needed replacing.

You could change one thing at a time maybe your leads have life in them yet. I just changed them all.

Not played up once since and its been over a year now :p
 
bobsp16 said:
the pump jet is blocked in the carb
Click to expand...

I did think this, also thank you everyone for suggestions.

I took air filter cover off and looked down the carb whilst blipping the throttle. Sometimes it'll get a generous squirt, other times it barely gets a spray coming from the jet. So i'm assuming this is what it could be.

as mentioned previously carbs aint my forte so is there an easy soloution for unblocking it?

Oh and one last thing, STUPIDLY i put some red-ex into the fuel tank, and went and had dinner. Left the car for a few days before starting it again (it got dark so left it for the night) Now it wont start at all, i'm assuming this will be due to my idiocy and now red-ex is blocking the fuel lines :|

Although, with the engine not running if i (using the throttle on the carb) look down the carb, i can see at wide open throttle, it is getting very small amounts of fuel, so maybe the lines arent blocked??

Very confusing i know, and any further help is very much appreciated. I wana get the car back on the road ASAP so thanks to all who replied
 
If the carb is asking for fuel and the pump can't supply you end up with starvation.

To check to see if the pump is working properly disconnect the pipe to the Carb inlet Then get a jam jar and lid and make a hole in the lid which is the same size as the pipe, put pipe in.

Then get someone to crank the engine for 3 or 4 seconds. The spurts of fuel from the pump should be consistent each time the engine turns over.
 
Check the little float window at the front of the carb (a small dentist style mirror is ideal for this) and check that the fuel level is on or slightly above the centre of the window. If it's too low then the blockege is before the carb (i.e. it's not comming in), if the level is way too high then the float is sticking. If the level is pretty much bang on the money then the blockage is down-stream within the jets of the carb itself.
Usually a small amount of fuel-cleaner and a good long run down the motorway (100miles or so) will give it a good clear-out and draw the crap (if there is any) out of the jets and float chamber, burn em up and blow em out the back. It does all cars good to have a good run out on the motorway every so often. It certainly does my ma12 good.
(Y)
 
Great suggestions. Will have a look in a while. One thing I wanted to ask. If standing looking toward the rear, the right throat chamber does not seem to get fuel and the left does. By I assume this was ok as it's the right aide that has the 'butterfly'

Myself and a friend spent a few hours on it yesterday. Got a bit familiar with the way a carb works. Cleaned all fuel lines with a compressor. And also put the air through the carb into the throat. Did chuck out some crap I'll admit. But it still won't turn over. Checked arm, dizzy, leads and sparks, all working. fine. I noticed there are 2 wiring looms on each sides of the carb. The right side gets 8v on ignition. The left side is dead. What are these for as I believe this may be the cause?

As far as I can tell. All the diapraghms on the carb work ok. The choke starts moving when trying to run over.

Am really clutching at straws. U guys have been really helpful so any more ideas?
 
Great suggestions. Will have a look in a while. One thing I wanted to ask. If standing looking toward the rear, the right throat chamber does not seem to get fuel and the left does. By I assume this was ok as it's the right aide that has the 'butterfly'

Myself and a friend spent a few hours on it yesterday. Got a bit familiar with the way a carb works. Cleaned all fuel lines with a compressor. And also put the air through the carb into the throat. Did chuck out some crap I'll admit. But it still won't turn over. Checked arm, dizzy, leads and sparks, all working. fine. I noticed there are 2 wiring looms on each sides of the carb. The right side gets 8v on ignition. The left side is dead. What are these for as I believe this may be the cause?

As far as I can tell. All the diapraghms on the carb work ok. The choke starts moving when trying to run over.

Am really clutching at straws. U guys have been really helpful so any more ideas?
 
Ok, i've taken the ignition apart, all seems fine. The car was broken into but they must have been disturbed coz they never quite got to hotwiring it. As a consequence, i thought it may have affected something. It doesn't look like any major wiring damage has been done. Just the cowling around the ignition.

The wiring looms i mentoned earlier, i have pics now:
IMG_0546.jpg

Connector at bottom of photo

Can someone explain what this is please, when i tested it, it gets roughly 8v during the crank
IMG_0547.jpg


Close up of connector:
IMG_0548.jpg


I traced these wires and it appears to go to the back of the ignition:

IMG_0551.jpg

To the plug with the yellow bottom

IMG_0549.jpg

Top down view of engine bay, looking down throat of carb as mentioned earlier [If standing looking toward the rear, the right chamber does not seem to get fuel and the left does. But I assume this was ok as it's the left side that has the 'butterfly' ]



Can anyone see anything obviously wrong?
 
the black plastic cover houses the bi-metalic autochoke shane, and the other wires are probably the anti run-on valve
 
The anti run-on devise is also known as the "anti-dieseling valve" and if the valve is unplugged or defective, the engine will not start or run. If you unplug it while the engine is running, the engine will stall immediately. If for some reson the annti-dieseling valve is not getting power then that would disable your engine, it gets it's power from the starter relay. When you turn your ignition key to stage 2 ("On" i.e. when the oil and battery lights come on) you should hear the relay click from inside the car.

From the photo it looks like the choke is over-adjusted, there is a line on the black casing of the choke. There is also a dot punched into the metal part with the many alignment marks on it (on the driver's side of the centre line), that is where the choke needs to align to.

IMG_0546.jpg


You can't see it from the photo but i just put it there so you don't have to scroll up and down to see what i'm talking about.

There is a test you can do to check if the choke is the problem; press the gas pedal to the floor and hold it there, then crank the car over. If it starts then the choke is the problem, if it doesn't then it's worth checking the anti-dieseling valve.
Just one other thing, if you try to start the engine with the airbox removed, make sure you plug up the vaccum line that you disconected from it (the one that plugged into the bottom of the airbox). With that line left uncapped the mixture is very, very weak and it doesn't help the engine to have it struggle with a pants mixture.
(Y)
 
One other thing (ain't got round to doing car yet as the mrs is in hospital) you say when I put ignition to no.2 I shud hear a click. I don't. I have checked the relay and visually it appears fine. I'm now thinking this may be the cause. Don't know why it never occurred to me before (doh!!)
 
Check the wire at the back of the anti diesaling valve as it might of corroded to the point of 'it's in there but not quite doing it's thing'

Good call on the ADV porkpie

As far as I'm aware these units can't be fixed if the wire has broken as it's sealed.

Quite easy to snap the wires due to the age and the way the wire is routed when unit is removed.

Pic of ADV unit
 

Attachments

  • Anti-diesaling switch.JPG
    Anti-diesaling switch.JPG
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K1Shane said:
One other thing (ain't got round to doing car yet as the mrs is in hospital) you say when I put ignition to no.2 I shud hear a click. I don't. I have checked the relay and visually it appears fine. I'm now thinking this may be the cause. Don't know why it never occurred to me before (doh!!)
Click to expand...

There are 2 starter relays, 1 next to the windscreen washer bottle under the bonnet (blue), and one behind the fusebox.
You know how you have 1 speaker on the passenger side footwell yeah? Well on the drivers side there is also a speaker cut-out in the body behind the little vinyl trim that the fuse box bolts over.
Well behind that trim, on a little bracket are 2 more relays. They live in a damp place and are prone to corrosion, now unscrewing the fuse box is a pain in the ass because you can't see the 2nd screw, but take it off, remove the trim and check those relays. (Y)
 
The saga continues! I had found the 2 relays behind small bit of vinyl. They are mint condition weirdly lol the one in the engine bay(blue) ain't here!!! But I can't say is ever seen it before. The socket for t to plug into is there but no relay. Slightly worrying if I'm honest lol

Did this model always have that blue relay? If so it's either fallen off, or its never been there and still always started/run fine :s

Haven't really had a chance until today to get working due to all the bad weather we've had.

Rang up a main dealer go I normally get parts from. And he told me that in 25 years of working on em he's never heard of a micra this old having starter relays!??????

Really confused now lol
 
Does anyone here know anywhere or anyone that has these relays? I can get the grey one for £40 but it'll be 2 weeks. And that's too long lol
 
frank said:
contact breakers mate (inside the dizzy on the early k10,s ), your original symptoms sound like a classic case of worn points :eek:
Click to expand...

Oooooo lol Erm, I can't remember, I'll check in the morning mate. I dont believe so. Just a standard dizzy. I did check for corrosion etc but it (and the rotary arm) appear ok??
 
frank said:
has this car got points shane ?
Click to expand...

1990 models are reluctor dizzy's not points frank. They did away with points back in 1989 when they launched the facelift k10. If the starter relays don't click when the ignition is turned on then they aint workin' and need to be checked/replaced. Always start with the easy stuff first, relays and fuses.
It might be worth changing the coil though, coz when they start acting up they cause nothing but problems, mostly intermittant stuff but still a headache.

And for anyone else out there unsure about what distributor they have;

Points
1982 - 1988/89 (Pre-facelift)

Reluctor
1989 - 1992 (1L MA10 Facelift)
1989 - 1992 (1.2L MA12 Automatic models)
1989 - 1990 (1.2L MA12 Manual non-cat models)

Fully Electronic (with crank angle sensor)
1990 - 1992 (1.2L MA12 Manual Catalysed ECC Models)

(Y)
 
porkpie700 said:
If the starter relays don't click when the ignition is turned on then they aint workin' and need to be checked/replaced. Always start with the easy stuff first, relays and fuses.
It might be worth changing the coil though, coz when they start acting up they cause nothing but problems, mostly intermittant stuff but still a headache.
Click to expand...

I get one click when put to stage 2 on ignition (albeit it sounds not much different to the noise of me turning the key. But dash has all the correct lights on it), but cant hear the fuel being primed. I am going to a breakers on saturday to get a complete set of relays hopefully. I dont quite know how to test them either, which doesn't help lol

So far this is what i know: fuel is being pumped. Carb is the cleanest its ever been lol Car has new sparks and leads, Dizzy and rotary arm is fine, All fuses are fine. Not sure about that relay in the engine bay though but dont recall it ever being there (blue one by washer bottle) i have had advice from one guy who knows a little bit about these. And he states catagorically its not gonna be the relay. I take his advice with a pinch of salt tho, as he couldn't tell me what it WOULD be lol

I really wish someone lived a bit nearer to me, and could pop down to tell me exactly whats wrong lol Hopefully saturday i will have the new relays and it will be sorted. Watch this space on saturday! lol
 
Got another relay. still nothing. Been told it might be the ignition coil. so want to try that. Anyone know where i can get one cheap?
 
Guys I cannot thank you enough for all the tips/suggestions and advice. It was the coil and lead that go to the dizzy. She runs like a dream again :)

Once again thank you all :D
 
I'm glad your problem is sorted, just so people know you can test a relay by putting a 9v battery on the terminals (perfect fit) and you can hear/feel it click. (Y)
 

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