1.3 engine swap

[kennierobo]

very simple I know but a couple of questions anyway,
the ecu unit for the 1.3 and pickup ring are from a V reg going into a R reg pre facelift whilst the ecu unit would be plug and play the pick up rings are not the same I also have a none nats 1.3 ecu unit so to over come the dilema of nats yet again would it be just a simple case of changing the engine side of loom only to a none nats set up.

2nd part realating to another project I have purchased the 1.6 micra from brooney and would like to get it completed and not have to undo all the hard work thats been done so far engine side is complete he removed
the micra wireing loom from front to back replacing it with that from a
primera anyone
that has done this will know what wires need cutting and modding to get it up and running so any info on that front would be taken on board. If i cant get it running then I will break it and sell off all the parts or worse still scrap it. wiring for me is hard at the best of times due to colour blindness so if its simple then great if not then an open book as its not happened yet.

 

[kennierobo]

maybe on 2nd thoughts replace the 1.6 and primera loom and do a refit of original parts 1.3 engine , loom and box that way it will be a good usable car again........mind made up refit it is 1.6 out 1.3 back in less work and much less hassle.

 

[Broony]

If you need a had i'll help you sort it out. I see theres lots of interest in this....

 

[kennierobo]

well I didnt expect anything else. I have all i need to do it so im not that fussed a pointer would have been nice but its not the be all and end all. Its not hard I will scratch wire it job done........anyway its under cover for now as im buying another micra to strip for parts and looms then when its striped I will make a start on the 1.6


Thought I would edit this brooney to let you know about this guy I know ive just off the phone to him (auto electician) and he is going to show me how to modify the existing loom to use the none nats ecu for the 1.3 so thats sorted. I totally forgot about him but its good news he is also going to do wiring in the 1.6 so even better...............whoopie

 

[Swiper]

i don't think anyone posted because you said you was just going to put the 1.3/1.6 back to standard.

"less work and much less hassle"

 

[kennierobo]

Yes I did say that and that was the plan. Until I was talking to my mate when he was at mine, He asked me why I hadnt asked davey for a helping hand (auto electricain) it took a while for the penny to drop as I had forgoten that he did that line of work. I then looked at it again I looked at all the hard work that had been done by brooney and others I then remembered what he had spent on getting it this far and to be very honest it would be an outrage to put it back to stock without first trying to get it built up again, The easy way would have been to just undo everything which is what I had intended to do. But given the time and money spent so far im not going to do that, Given that the dash and everything is allready out gives me the opertunity to fit a pre facelift dash I like these better than the facelift version dont know why I just do. So at the moment when I get a bit time I will give the 1.6 a week to have the engine running again if after that time its still a none runner then and only then will it get put back to stock........I hope

the 1.6 engine thats fitted is nats 2 1996/7 the loom brooney fitted front to back is from the primera now with a little toil and trouble i know this would work but to me its too long would a loom from a micra the same year get it up and running and would it plug straight into the primera ecu unit also i think brooney said that the speedo is electronic on both the primera and the micra its fitted into. Now this throws up other issues can i make the speedo mechanical because if the earlier micra loom works it wouldnt have the wires to power the speedo up. I could be barking up the wrong tree but I would like a tidy job and to me the primera loom is to much in to little a space.....

 

[Ed]

Any decent auto electrician should be able to do this. I have done lots of nats to non nats conversions now. They are very easy systems to maniupulate. Just most people get stuck if a diagnostic unit cannot work out the problem for them (including alot (not all) of nissan dealerships)

 

[kennierobo]

He is a good auto electrian I was trying to simplify it for my self so that the costs of getting both cars done would not go through the roof. I will let him do it if thats the only way but if I can achive the same goals by doing it my self then even better. I think I read on other posts and feel free to correct me if im wrong.....1st car is 998cc in it i would like to fit the 1.3 that was in brooneys car the ecu unit and looms allready in place will run that unit but not to its best, therefore to use his ecu unit and pick up ring would mean changing lots of wiring because the pickup rings are differant. I also have a none nats 1.3 ecu unit now if i can get that to run on that unit by just changing the engine loom to a none nats loom then its only a few hours work and money saved.....As for the 1.6 my dilema is a little nit picky I know the primera looms that are fitted dont look right there to long and will be a pain to lose out of sight so my thinking is to fit looms from pre facelift micra to overcome this the thinking is it would then plug into the primera ecu unit and power up the engine this has its own problems im guessing as preface lift micras are mechanical speedo and the primera was electric. If the gearbox from the primera has a blanking plate where speedo cable goes then that would solve that, at the end of the day I have to get the 1.6 running before i transplant the 1.3 into the 998cc because if it dont run then i will have to refit its original units and wireing........confusing my self now.....cheers

Done some searching of old threads 32 pages back found the answers to my questions (i think) the 1.6 needs the primera loom as it has differant ecu setup and more wires in the loom as for the 1.3 transplant the engine loom needs changing to a none nats loom to run it. so with that i will post when its up and running now i know what needs done its time to get on with it....

 

[Ed]

Thats wrong. Get wiring diagrams and look closer. 1.6 def does not need 1.6 loom. All the sensors are compatible even if they are not wired right.

 

[kennierobo]

just going off whats been done Ed thats why its so confusing. brooney has taken the complete loom from front to back out of the micra and replaced it with that of a primera which I think is far to long to hide away. The reason he did this is that the pickup ring on his micra had 6 wires and the primera had four, he also said that the engine loom would not plug into the primera ecu, so i was taking it as gospel not wanting to doubt him. that is why i was asking could i replace the primera loom with a micra loom from the same year. Thanx for the info though I will look closer and get it sorted

 

[kennierobo]

pics of looms

 

[Ed]

Get a P10 1.6 ecu which I think has no nats. If i have rememberd correctly will save you a huge amount of effort.

Thing is people have all found bodged ways to do it when there are many simpler ones etc...

 

[kennierobo]

I have been on the search for a p10 not found one as yet can you clarify what year they ran from and finished then i could search breakers yards online instead of visiting them in person cheers............ ken

 

[Ed]

I dont know to be exact try wikipedia or NPOC.

 

[kennierobo]

okay.......will give it a try

 

[Retepetsir]

My dad's 1996 P10 Primera SRi 1.6 had NATS....just to warn you.

 

[Ed]

Some are not embedded inthe ecu like later nats however, iirc.

 

[kennierobo]

done search and p10 ran for a couple of years until 95 and ed your spot on with the nats thing as i found well not found as ive known about site for a while but, the nats in early primera was hidden in the A post behind heater motor and is very easily disabled.
copied form site in question.
There are ways of bypaeeing the nats. First you need to know what noats syatem is fitted to your car.
nats 1 has the key fob (black with lock and unlock buttons)
nats 2 onwards will have a red or blue chip in the key by the key blade. (this syatem is very hard to bypass as it runs trough the ecu and control units)
on a micra K11 with nats 1, bepending on factory or accessory fitment, you can simply unplug the nats loom and control unit, and connect the origanal loom back in.

on a P10 primera, these where mostly factory fitted. again if you have the black fob with the 2 buttons, these can be bypassed quite easy. you will need to remove the glovebox and heater motor to gain exess to the nats control unit. ( located on the A pillar) when you disconnect the nats unit you will be left with the wiring loom connector. all you have to do is branch the coresponding wires with each other. and there you have disconected nats.

there was a adapter you could fit onto the loom when you had removed the nats control unit. dealers where surposed to return it to nissan as the adapter had a surcharge of £100.

i may have one laying around somewhere, i will look and see if i can upload a picture (if this forum lets pictures).

Any other nats system you will need to know electrics very well to bypass.

Find and remove the NATS immu, behind glove box.
disconnect and link the following wires.
1&2
5&6
7&8

3&4 leave off.
you should now have disconnected your nissan antitheft.

 

[frank]

japseye

my 95 super s had a 2 button fob, and when it played up a mate disconnected a small square box close to the ecu and i was sorted !

 

[kristian]

Nissans are not exact to their revisions date.. including electrical systems..

A complete loom swap from a donor car is the most Fool-proof way of getting it right..

inclusive of future modifications, repairs, maintenance..

-my opinion

 

[kennierobo]

I am going to use the primera loom that runs engine and try and combine it with that from the micra for rest of car if it fails then I will use other options....worth a try i think....it should work as the ecu pickup ring and ignition barrel are all from donor car........

 

[kristian]

Ive already mentioned this to pete as what I would do with the parts to hand..

Engine loom from prim, with donor Ring and Key hidden inside dash,

..which using 99& of original micra 'behind dash' electrics

This is a little trickier but quicker than the full loom swap.. I would reccommend to a novice, just a full loom swap.. as its pretty much all plug and play..

 

[Ed]

Nissans are not exact to their revisions date.. including electrical systems..

A complete loom swap from a donor car is the most Fool-proof way of getting it right..

inclusive of future modifications, repairs, maintenance..

-my opinion

If you dont know what your doing then perhaps so, or where the car had no loom to begin with. Other than that if the engine is the same type with the same sensors your out of your mind to change the loom over its a complete waste of time.

 

[kristian]

If you dont know what your doing then perhaps so, or where the car had no loom to begin with. Other than that if the engine is the same type with the same sensors your out of your mind to change the loom over its a complete waste of time.

I was refering to Petes exact situation

specifically to a 1.3 micra loom.. with partial engine loom...

Fitted with engine from primera of unsure specification with only partial engine loom

+ complete loom + Keys + ECU from Primera of known specification..

 

[kennierobo]

I know what im doing. and to be very honest im not a novice, the reason behind the post is that the complete micra loom has been removed and replaced with that of the primera nothing is conected exept the engine part everything else is just a mish mash of wires loosley laid in place, Now not been involved in the removal of primera loom or the micra loom I have no idea what is what which is why I was asking the best way to get it up and running, The engine ecu pickup ring are all from the donor primera the primera loom was taken from another car the same year. I was going to my mates scrap yard to remove a loom for myself and label the connectors as i removed them making the task of firing the car up much more easy. Again I was asking questions to see if it would be prudent to seek out a micra loom and try and combine the 2, Im reading all the posts made here and i am taking on board what everyone has to say im paying paticular attention to those that have allready done this conversion and those that know there stuff. As I have the matching ecu pickup ring and key I think is a bonus all I have to do is re wire the car using either the primera loom thats in place all be it jumble or sorce a new one this time putting labels on or combine both the primera and a micra loom.......I dont think the job of running a new loom is hard having had 4 kit cars under my belt the hard part is knowing what to do for the best....starting from scratch I think will give me a better understanding of whats what and what goes where so if im doing that then its best to get as much advice and try and combine everyones input to get the best outcome. Again I thank all who has replied on this subject and I will get around to it within the next few weeks when the breakers yards open for trade once again....

 

[kennierobo]

Well removed a complete loom from a micra in breakers yard today after first removing the seats and carpets sound deadining it took longer to remove these items than removing the dash and loom so when i get the 1.6 striped out i will lay it in place im hopeing that i wont have to many conflicts with the primera side of things but you can only try at worst it just wont work at best we will be dancing in the streets....