Timing Chain let go??

[CMF_Tony]

Wanting to throw this out there for your advice/help. My brother brought a 1995 SLX Micra with 97 000km on the clock which he picked up on the 24th of April this year.
The safety certificate was dated the 31st of January, And today he was traveling to work from the Sunshine Coast, And the car stoped about 35 minutes from home. He had the car towed to his Mechanic,Who serviced the car about a week ago, And the mechanic told him that the timing chain has let go and the motor will need to be replaced.
But the mechanic also told him that after removing the cover from the timing chain that he noticed alot of blue sealer that looked fresh.

The questions i'm asking are- is the safety certificate valid from a car yard for more than 30 days?

Is it covered for this kind of failure?

Should he have to falk out for this problem?

He has done about 5 000km since he brought the car and thats all freeway driving,It is also a one owner with log books. Also does anyone no of any good engines local to Brisbane or the Sunshine Coast?

Thankyou for your help in advance.

Tony

 

[CMF_Snoopy]

Safety certs don't really check things like timing chains, they are there to check whether the vehicle is safe, i.e tyres, suspension, mods, seat belts etc. Sounds like someone (not nessesarily the car yard, as it could have been dodgied up to be used as a trade in) has done a dodgy on the chain tensioner to keep it quiet for sale.

Try ringing the car yard as I'm pretty sure they have to give at least a one month warrenty on there car.
If there not too dodgy they generally try & help out with the cost, however your brother could be stuck with it.
Sorry to here.

 

[CMF_Tony]

Thanks Snoopy, I just found out myself that the timing chain is not part of the saftey certificate check, But what i'm asking is that are they allowed to sell the car with it is not current,by law??

My brother told me that the chain had gotten lounder the last month or so.

 

[CMF_jamm'n]

yeah sounds like really bad luck here. i've never heard of a timing chain letting go only after 97,000. thats just insane. my timing chain was rattling real bad and i had nissan service and replace the 2 chains and both tensioners. this cost me all up $900 but thats because they quoted me 4 hours of labour where infact it took them 9 hours. so i'd have to say that realistically, that it would cost more like the $1200.00 mark to have it done properly. this is of no use now to you i know but if yours or anyone elses chain is rattling its best to have it fixed then to have to go thru all the drama of replacing the motor and being without your little daily for weeks on end.
i real sorry to hear about this.

 

[CMF_Tony]

His mechanic told him, Push in drive out-new motor 5200

 

[CMF_jamm'n]

new motor. forget that go to a wrecker. or look for low km jap motors. i picked one up for $400.00 but that was under very unusual circumstances. i think wrecked motors are around the $850 mark. that plus that price to take old one out and put new one in, which is between 500-600.

 

[CMF_Snoopy]

Tony WROTE:

"Thanks Snoopy, I just found out myself that the timing chain is not part of the saftey certificate check, But what i'm asking is that are they allowed to sell the car with it is not current,by law??<BR><BR>My brother told me that the chain had gotten lounder the last month or so.

Safety cert are only valid for a certain period of time (around one month I think). If the cert was out of date, it would not be accepted by the rta & car could not be registered. I would double check the time (ask anywhere that does qld safety certs), but im sure they only last a month.

 

[CMF_Nissanmania]

The timing chain may be a weak point with the Micra. Mine (done 160K) certainly makes a fair bit of noise.

The guy building my new motor was concerned about the small amount of tension provided by the factory chain tensioner (bottom-left on the photo). This means as the chain wears etc there is not enough available movement in the device to stop the chain thrashing around leading to breakage. He's considering adding a spacer plate under the tensioner to increase the ability to take up the slack created by the inevitable wear that will occur more quickly in a performance application.

 

[CMF_jamm'n]

i'm not sure but if you replaced that tensioner with a newer gen nissan one it would be a good idea also. i think that it has been improved since the micra had issues with them.

 

[CMF_jamm'n]

oh yeah, and that bottom tensioner was the same one on my car that was seized open. there was NO movement in it at all. and where is the top tensioner???
has it been removed?

 

[CMF_makes]

Sorry to hear about this problem... It's very unlucky for a timing chain to break at such low mileage. Perhaps the car was poorly maintained early in it's life ?.

The following company in Brisbane advertise replacement motors in the trading post for $790, http://www.brisbanemotorimports.com.au

I have seen a crashed micra at "Pacific Hwy Auto Wreckers" with a motor in but I am not sure what condition it's in. It was a front end crash so might be stuffed ?.
http://www.phwautorecyclers.com.au/

"A1 Nissan Spares" would probably also be able to supply one.

Good luck with it.

 

[CMF_jamm'n]

yeah A1 nissan have them but i think they want $850 for one.

 

[CMF_Nissanmania]

Yes Jammin, the top tensioner hasn't been replaced yet.

That's interesting about an improved factory tensioner. Any ideas from what year onwards this applies?

 

[CMF_jamm'n]

all i can tell you "Nissanmania" is, that if your looking at the chain/tentioners and its noisey...REPLACE THEM!!!!
going to the effort of pulling it all down and not replacing them seems silly to me, especially when you consider that its well known that they do break.

 

[CMF_Tony]

Thanks for your help guys. My brother has sourced threw a mate a motor only with 60 000km on it for just over 500 and can get it fitted for about the same amount.

Do any of you out there no if there is a aftermarket one available? or is there another one from a different car suitable? Would now be a little concerned if my motor was boosted right up,May not last very long with a standard timing chain.

 

[CMF_MyZBU]

Hi there,

Believe it or not - I've just had the same problem happen in my 1995 Super-S (45 mins walk from home!) my car has 98,500 on the clock!!!
Mechanic says replace the motor - which I'm looking for right now (noted all advice above! Thanks!) I'm going into the mechanics tomorrow for the final post-motum on the engine so it will be interesting to see if there are any similarities in the cause!

He did price a Gem Engine for me - $4600+!!!!!!!!!

 

[CMF_jamm'n]

there is NO alternate chain for the micra that i'm aware of. i'm 100% certain that if you change to the new nissan chains and tentioners the car would run for years and years without fault. my car has done 195xxx, and this engine with just keeps going and going now. but have plans now for my spare motor, so if things go the way i want it to that old motor won't be in the car for too much longer.

 

[CMF_Nissanmania]

Not that worried about noisy chain as this motor is being replaced by one being built soon. Chain only noisy at idle when cold.

Have sourced Nissan updated Micra bottom chain tensioner kit. Engine builder has ordered (about $250) and will check out to see if it is any real improvement over current one. Will post an update.

 

[CMF_nz_aj]

At 97,000km I would have guessed the odometer had been wound back.
Maybe it's only the british built models.

 

[CMF_Tony]

The km's where original, The car came with full history logbooks.

 

[CMF_Nissanmania]

This is the comparison between the updated bottom chain tensioner (top) and the original. Gives almost a centimetre of extra travel. The nylon runner has an increased curvature so that the end doesn't suffer excessive wear with the increased travel provided. Makes you wonder why Nissan put out the motor with the original (slightly defective)item?

Can order as separate item from Nissan Australia for $110 as opposed to $250 for the kit with timing chain.

 

[CMF_Geoff W]

Hmm interesting.... So please clarify, What does your $250 Kit get you? Bottom tensioner and lower chain?

 

[CMF_jamm'n]

Hey thats cool!! i was right about the tentioners being improved.
thats one to me

 

[CMF_Nissanmania]

I believe the kit includes the bottom chain and its tensioner.

Don't expect to find the same problems with the top chain's tensioner as it's a shorter chain.

 

[CMF_Yom]

The original item was not defective during the design stages.

They could not have forseen the chains they were supplied to stretch that much...

Same with the dodgey airflow meters. And the N16 Pulsar's crank angle sensor issue. They weren't an intended design fault. It happens al the time with mass production cars.

 

[CMF_jamm'n]

ummmm.....Tom.

who makes intended design faults???

Yom WROTE:

" They weren't an intended design fault.

????????????????????????????????????????

 

[CMF_Nissanmania]

I think Nissan, as highly experienced and proficient engine builders, dropped the ball on this one! My engine builder has never pulled a Micra engine apart before and immediately spotted this as a potential issue! Luckily, as it turns out, Nissan was good enough to admit the error and produce a fix.

 

[CMF_Yom]

There was a lovely period around the late 80's and early 90's when nissan released a few motors which were to be serial timing chain tensioner problem children. SR and KA are 2 model names which spring to mind.

I wonder if they fired the timing chain tensioner guy.

 

[CMF_Nissanmania]

That would be funny if his job title was "Timing Chain Tensioning Guy"! Sounds like a super-hero sort of title..........

"Is it a bird? A plane? No, its Super Timing Chain Tensioning Guy!"

His job reference would read "Works well initially but then tends to slacken off"

 

[CMF_makes]

Thanks for posting up these details NissanMania.... it's comforting to know that Nissan recognise faults in their designs and develop improved replacement parts.

Your motor will be awesome once it's finished !. I look forward to hearing how it goes when you install it back in the car.

 

[CMF_Nissanmania]

Thanks Makes. I'm waiting with bated breath for the first dyno run and drive because it's a bit of an unknown quantity. Should be any month now.

Part supply is a strange affair with a complete build like this. The tensioner was ex Kewdale (10km away)whereas I'm waiting for a water pump ex-Japan!

 

[CMF_Yom]

There's more and more k11 stuff being brought over from Japan lately.

Previously pretty much everything was sourced from the UK.

Now you go into the dealership looking for an airfilter and theres 2 part numbers listed. One from japan and one from the UK.

Strange. You can also get pretty much anything from japan through the nissan fast system if you have a part number. It seems that nissan have done what toyota did when they realised that the number of grey and SEVS imports out there are quite high and so they added the japanese models to their parts program. They win from this as they can supply the required parts easily for the imported vehicle. Try going doing to your local supercheap and finding the right belt or oil filter on the shelf!

 

[CMF_Nissanmania]

There's more to the chain tensioner story.

The new tensioner supplied by Nissan is for the top chain!

The good news it can be adapted nicely for the bottom chain by fabricating a new 3mm aluminium base plate with an oil delivery chanel milled in - sorry no photos as it is already installed.

 

[CMF_Tony]

I spoke to my brother today,And he got his micra back yesterday with the total bill being 1050.
They pretty much pulled the old out and put the new in,the motor had done 37 000km and he reports that his slx is running quiter and better then ever before.

I just like to say a big thanks to everyone that help with there thoughs and info.

Tony

 

[CMF_Yom]

Not a bad price for a new engine with those sort of KM to be installed!

 

[CMF_jamm'n]

$1050. WOW!!!

Thats great news, i'm sure she'll give many many years of awesome, fun, inexpensive motoring.

 

[CMF_nzallblacks1]

Hi,

I've been following this thread for a while, and just a few questions.

- The $250 kit, is this for the top or bottom chain and tensioner?
- if it is for the top, as 'NissanMania' stated, then is there a revised tensioner for the bottom as well? It seems that because the bottom chain is longer, a tensioner for the bottom would be more beneficial?

Mine has done 104km, and I've been panicked into having a look at my timing chains now!

thanks fellas.

 

[CMF_jamm'n]

do the diagnosis first!!

http://www.micra.com.au/technical-articles/nissan-timing-chain-procedure.php