Tb and injector talk again

CMF_sikK11

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Hey guys i know the install is simple and all that i have found a place that has several of the ga15 parts. I just wanted to know what kind of gains are expected from this mod and what you all that have done it thought.
 

CMF_turbo march-rolling shell

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lots of hesitation before tuning. when i fitted the ga15 tb i wasn't like, wow, that's awesome.. more like. awww, is that it? if i had of payed any more then the $50 i got it for, i would of been very disapointed. every little bit counts i guess in n/a form, definately need some sort of tuning thou to get the most out of it, and tune out the surging when the tb is fitted.
 

CMF_frank2

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sikK11

my primera ga1.6 t/b (same 50mm bore) only seemed to show a gain at high revs, and without the primera injectors would probably have ran lean at wide open throttle (the lambda readings looked ok, but for some reason were a bit lower/leaner when cruising (in closed loop), i thought the ecu self corrected ?)
i would think, without a remap you need to match the boresize to the injector size for it to run ok at WOT ?
 

CMF_sikK11

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Wicked thanks guys. ONly just read those others posted and they were different than the others i read through. Sound like the way to go. Parts have been ordered
 

CMF_SSUK

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frank2 WROTE:

"sikK11<BR><BR>my primera ga1.6 t/b (same 50mm bore) only seemed to show a gain at high revs, and without the primera injectors would probably have ran lean at wide open throttle (the lambda readings looked ok, but for some reason were a bit lower/leaner when cruising (in closed loop), i thought the ecu self corrected ?)<BR>i would think, without a remap you need to match the boresize to the injector size for it to run ok at WOT ?
Click to expand...

Narrow band lambda readings wont be accurate enough to show you what the mixture is doing. Besides you never get out of closed loop on the K11 jeccs ecu's anyway. The MAF scale that the ecu is calibrated to will be out from the CG13 unit if using a GA16 body, and using GA16DE injectors isn't a solution to make it work, as there could be potential for it to be even further out.

There is a surpsiring amount of power to be gained from a decent re-map anyway, preferably with the standard ecu, as you can remove closed loop and actually get the car running sensible AFR's that are tuned for power and not economy. Secondly the standard ignition map is very tame, so there's plenty of torque and response to be gained from ignition optimisations.

If you've ever seen a K11 on the dyno, even on a standard engine with the usual bolt ons, (exhaust & intake), the AFR's speak for themselves....a lot of the time they are even leaner than stoich on WOT, which is far from ideal.
 

CMF_frank2

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SSUK

my narrowband lambda readings swing from .4 to .6v in closed loop, and goes up to .9v on wot (tho can drop to near zero in some conditions, eg wot at low revs then recover, and reads zero on lift while the car is moving
i agree a narrowband lambda is,nt ideal but it gives me a lot more feedback than no a/f/r meter at all
i,ve still got the 1.0 ecu in btw, which has 8deg more ignition advance apparently
i did a video of my meter at cruise and wot etc, but my camera has an oddball file format

frank
 

CMF_SSUK

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A narrowband sensor is only accurate to AFR's very close to stoich, (+ or - 0.5AFR).

0.9v could mean an AFR of anything from say 14.2:1 AFR or richer, (no way of telling as the sensor will flatline to 0.9v RICH). I would also expect the sensor to show near 0v, especially over the midrange, which would mean anything leaner than say 15.2:1 AFR, (again the sensor will flatline to LEAN), which is exactly what K11's do on the dyno.

As you say, although not accurate it's safe to say that from your description your car is not very well setup and has no guaruntee of an optimal AFR.

ECU wise, the CG10 units do have more ignition timing than the CG13 but there's still more to come with more mapping.
 

CMF_deNs

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After an install of extractors, GA15 TB and injectors, what would be the best route to take to ensure that the car is tuned correctly? The only ways I can think of at the moment are:

-Piggyback ECU (SAFC, E-Manage, etc.)
-Self-learn with wideband O2
-Re-map standard ECU to suit

I can imagine the top one being the most attractive option for some.. can just pick up a SAFC for 350-400 then finding someone to tune it probably wouldn't be too hard.. but that's a lot of money to put down for

What about setups with standard T/B and injectors, but with modified airbox and extractors? I know some people never bothered tuning theirs, relying on narrowband O2 to correct the changes made, but if I were to say, take the car to a track, is it likely to run dangerously lean?

I can't imagine re-mapping the computer being a worthwhile option for people down here in aus unless someone who knew what they were doing (with the right equipment) provided a service to do remaps.

What to do...

---dens
 

smidge

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jaycar interceptors are a cheaper option, takes a fair bit of DIY'ing

my choice if i didn't want to go the brand name route would be a jaycar DFA kit and a wideband oxy sensor in the tailpipe and do as much research as possible to get the mix right and hope you don't blow it

for how cheap the cars are, that would be my choice
 

CMF_sportsclassic

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go a after market ecu(standalone) tune it on the dyno or road with someone that knows what they are doing. i have used HITMAN in Penrith to tune many rally cars on the dyno and road, he deals with mainly HALTECHS and any other programmable ecu. i noticed the other day he sells SAFC's and i think he can get E-manage. i installed a HALTECH wideband sensor kit the other day, great for tuning
 

CMF_deNs

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Hmm, after discussion with a mate it seems it'll probably be better for me in the long run to go with a full ECU rather than messing around with piggyback or any other kind of intermediate stuff. I do intend to go turbo in future so it'd just mean that I'd have to change management when I go do it. This will just be more encouragement to do it sooner rather than later.

Fiddling with engine management is one of the things I wasn't really looking forward to. Just gotta decide what ECU to go with (haltech, autronic, motec, or whatever else) and find a reputable tuner to help me do it.

---dens
 

CMF_fred

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yeah, a full ecu is the way to go but its just the $ upfront that's the concern....and how long you intend keep the car... but then again its also very impressive to see a nicely done car of any sort especially small cars. As you know (maybe) I use the DFA and works fine, so I've just started building the jaycar fully programmable ignition..then the fun will begin but need some more gauges (knocklite and maybe G-tech-RR,(just put in the egt)) just to be sure everything is ok... but everyone needs to weigh up the time and money thing.....

but back to the thread.... it will be interesting to see what improvement in performance sikK11 will see to encourage him after the T/b injector replacement.
 

smidge

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its pretty cool to be able to build it yourself, the advantages of having factory control of air con and idle etc and then just adding that 25% extra scope for power with a turbo or whatever
 

CMF_sikK11

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Dr Drift can retune the stock Ecu but needs to buy the software. Spoke to him today and he said it is not hard and could be done but need to make it worth while to buy the software.
 

CMF_sportsclassic

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sikK11 WROTE:

"Dr Drift can retune the stock Ecu but needs to buy the software. Spoke to him today and he said it is not hard and could be done but need to make it worth while to buy the software.
Click to expand...

There is till alot of restrictions in the std ecu, he can only tune it to certain level, it depends how much he is going to charge, but i would go aftermarket
 
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