Swansea bay rally gearbox?

K

kipsy

Competed in the Swansea bay rally today. Had great fun but found that car was quite difficult to keep on cam. It has a 5.1 LSD with standard gearbox. 1st gear is quite low and once up into third and fourth the gaps are quite large between the gears.
Does anyone on here run a gear kit on their boxes? Straight cut etc? Do you know the ratios etc?
 
Yes it's a 1.3, comes on 'cam' about 4500 and limited is 6500 I think or whatever is standard. It's either on the limiter or off cam on the hills. I know forestry is pretty power sapping also with forest tyres. Was quite impressed as didnt come last and was setting times with the 1.6 205s and protons with sequential boxes etc. Even beat a v8 tr7 on most stages. Did crash on first stage and put car on it's side down a bank.
I've been trying to look on humphries site for info but no joy can't find it anymore on the net. The car is making 116 bhp so not too shabby.
 
hmm, very narrow eh :eek: i had an inlet cam ground to 285 deg that did that too, loads of topend hp but soooo laggy that the 1/4 mile time was pretty much bog standard fwn, and my 260 cam is noticeably quicker overall
have you dialed the cams in kipsy?
 
kipsy said:
I keep getting cars for sale only on that link or am I missing something sorry
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Guessing you mean the Micra pdf link? works for me, although I remember having to email Matt to unblock my ISP address, I think he must prevent large-scale access or something like that
 
Expensive :wow:

Micra Dog Box Gear Kits
Ratio’s
1st 3.08 37/12
2nd 2.28 32/14
3rd 1.75 28/16
4th 1.42 27/19
5th 1.23 26/21
Final drive
3.85 Or 4.35
50/13 61/14
From
2565.00
 
5.1 bit much then. What's the ratios 3.8 n 4.3 fitted too? Is a 3.8 standard 1.3 box. What sort of rev limit is safe? Mine is standard and makes max power on the limit. So maybe more power to come? Is the only way to raise the limit an aftermarket ecu?
 
kipsy said:
5.1 bit much then. What's the ratios 3.8 n 4.3 fitted too? Is a 3.8 standard 1.3 box. What sort of rev limit is safe? Mine is standard and makes max power on the limit. So maybe more power to come? Is the only way to raise the limit an aftermarket ecu?
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yes 3.9 stock eh, and i had my shortstroke 1.0 to nearly 9k but i would,nt like to take a 1.3 over 7.5k personally :eek:
and here,s mine doing an 11 sec 0 to 60 keeping it below 4 k http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HS4azbiQnrM
and there are some threads about the limiter hack
 
Just worked it out with the 3.85. That would be nice gearing! Mmm. Heard of people fitting nova boxes? Cheaper for gear kits but cost of LSD cwp shafts n clutches etc expensive. I drive my car to rallies that's the only problem with having a really low diff
 
Bit of an update. I've found out why my car feels so cammy to drive it's due to a large dip in the torque curve at 4k revs. I was talking to the rolling road operator and he said that the cars respond well to a head skim to up the compression ratio. He said with his experience of lots of 1000 cc micras this almost eliminates the torque dip at 4 and gives quite a few bhp throughout the range. He estimated that my motor could be putting out approx 125bhp with a skim and sorting out the cam timing etc. It's currently putting out 95@ wheels at 6250 and 94@ 6400 so just going past it's peak at the limiter. Maybe this wod help the car more than the gearbox and would be cheaper to start with. Your thoughts please peeps? Cheers
 
kipsy said:
Bit of an update. I've found out why my car feels so cammy to drive it's due to a large dip in the torque curve at 4k revs. I was talking to the rolling road operator and he said that the cars respond well to a head skim to up the compression ratio. He said with his experience of lots of 1000 cc micras this almost eliminates the torque dip at 4 and gives quite a few bhp throughout the range. He estimated that my motor could be putting out approx 125bhp with a skim and sorting out the cam timing etc. It's currently putting out 95@ wheels at 6250 and 94@ 6400 so just going past it's peak at the limiter. Maybe this wod help the car more than the gearbox and would be cheaper to start with. Your thoughts please peeps? Cheers
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thats basically why mine pulls from lowdown with cams kipsy (the 1.0 flat-top pistons and 12:1 C/R :))
here,s my flat torque graph (before the exh cam, QG injectors, and SR20 t/b were fitted)

 

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Been told to skim the head by 23 thou. Unsure what comp ratio it will be or what it is at the moment. Thecar is chip s old car from the forum. It would be nice if had a little more mid range and didn't gave to up to rev limit to make the car last. The 1.0 has same bore as 1275 just longer stroke then? Won't change the pistons as don't really want to be spending too much on this car as its meant to be a cheap replacement for my mk1 escort. Out of interest what is your car making now power wise? Flywheel figure or wheel? Cheers
 
kipsy said:
Been told to skim the head by 23 thou. Unsure what comp ratio it will be or what it is at the moment. Thecar is chip s old car from the forum. It would be nice if had a little more mid range and didn't gave to up to rev limit to make the car last. The 1.0 has same bore as 1275 just longer stroke then? Won't change the pistons as don't really want to be spending too much on this car as its meant to be a cheap replacement for my mk1 escort. Out of interest what is your car making now power wise? Flywheel figure or wheel? Cheers
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half a mil wont raise it a fat lot fwn (1mm headskim is 3cc iirc, there are some online calculators eh).
my previous CGA engine had a 2mm headskim, which was fine.
and i dont know what my hp is atm (dyno,s are very subjective imo fwn) but my 1/4 mile has dropped from 16.2 to 15.7 since that dyno (hoping for a 15.5 on sunday, weather permitting :grinning:)
 
Excuse my ignorance buts what's a cga engine? Is that the 1275? I havnt worked out the compression ratio yet? Do you know what 2mm skim equates to in comp ratio? Don't really want to cock up the head or have to skim it twice etc. Had various problems with this issue on my old pinto with Vulcan. Can't be too bad though with 95 @ wheels?
 
kipsy said:
Excuse my ignorance buts what's a cga engine? Is that the 1275? I havnt worked out the compression ratio yet? Do you know what 2mm skim equates to in comp ratio? Don't really want to cock up the head or have to skim it twice etc. Had various problems with this issue on my old pinto with Vulcan. Can't be too bad though with 95 @ wheels?
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the CGA3 is the 1.4 (1348cc) with very deep dishes in the pistons and 1mm overbored (and stroked too)
and 2mm headskim is about equal to a 1.3 with 1.0 pistons iirc (about 11.5:1)
mine has the CGA crank in a 1.0 block
the 1.0 pistons is a neater solution, because headskimming makes the lower chain slacker eh
 
Still a fair bit of work then. Was hoping a quick head skim and few bits and pieces for about £500 tops? Spent ages developing my duratec in escort and ended up with 232bhp but spent loads and car off the road for ages at a time. That's not what I want. If I'm putting unreliability into the engine with the cam chain etc maybe I'll just use it? Is a standard micra 1.3 safe to 7 if remove the limiter as a short term fix? Cherrs
 
kipsy said:
Still a fair bit of work then. Was hoping a quick head skim and few bits and pieces for about £500 tops? Spent ages developing my duratec in escort and ended up with 232bhp but spent loads and car off the road for ages at a time. That's not what I want. If I'm putting unreliability into the engine with the cam chain etc maybe I'll just use it? Is a standard micra 1.3 safe to 7 if remove the limiter as a short term fix? Cherrs
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as long as your chains are,nt high milage, then 2mm is safe (you can check the stretch if you hold a cam and turn the crankpulley back and forward, 3 notches on the pulley is pretty good, 5+ notches is well worn)
mine was skimmed 3mm actually, but the slack chain gave the cam sensor/spark bad scatter @ idle, so i ended up using 2 headgaskets,
you have to bear in mind that your cams are dumping compression at the low/mid range because of their longer duration and thats what,s costing you the torque eh fwn
 
If you have skimmed the head 3mm then maybe the guy I spoke to had the figures wrong. Was the engine reliable? Did it detonate at lower revs or you using super unleaded etc. Sorry about all the questions but had so many engine issues in my escort, in out rebuild etc. Measure twice cut once haha.
 
kipsy said:
If you have skimmed the head 3mm then maybe the guy I spoke to had the figures wrong. Was the engine reliable? Did it detonate at lower revs or you using super unleaded etc. Sorry about all the questions but had so many engine issues in my escort, in out rebuild etc. Measure twice cut once haha.
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it sounded ok to me, and this engine sounds fine until i run the intake through the baulkhead and into the cabin where it sounds like its pinking like mad under load :eek:. (but i,ve been ragging it for months with no sign of smoke of rattles)
mine seems to sound and go the same on unleaded, but i usually use super unleaded for the sake of a few pence.
and the 1.3 is a fairly long stroke eh, i would stick to 7k personally
 
So that's 12.5-1. Bet it's really responsive. Last time I upped comp ratio from 9.3 to 11.1-1 it was loads more grunt, much more responsive and put out lots more fumes from exhaust. Made your trousers shake if stood behind the car.:laugh:
 
kipsy said:
So that's 12.5-1. Bet it's really responsive. Last time I upped comp ratio from 9.3 to 11.1-1 it was loads more grunt, much more responsive and put out lots more fumes from exhaust. Made your trousers shake if stood behind the car.:laugh:
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aye, people fit wild cams and wonder where all the grunt went, but they feel the powerband kick in and convince themselves the car is quicker, then they sell the cams lol :p
 
Yeh it's torque that makes the car quick, not mega rpm unless you got mega close ratio box. If I do up the comp ratio it should utilise the cams to their full potential. Will delv deeper before I get head off
 
frank said:
aye, people fit wild cams and wonder where all the grunt went, but they feel the powerband kick in and convince themselves the car is quicker, then they sell the cams lol :p
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They also rarely bother to adjust fuelling or ignition timing to suit, and wonder why it runs badly, has flat spots and fails emissions come MOT time too, (seen plenty of that). Shame!
 
If I up the compression ratio to 11.5-1 by fitting 1.0 pistons, have the cams dialled in by removing woodruff keys or pins whatever they are, have the fuelling adjusted (got an fse valve for the 1.6 injectors) and get the distributor turned etc to set ignition timing would I still need to play with the ecu or is there not much to gain in the maps department. Used to run an emerald ecu on last car but quite expensive.
 
kipsy said:
If I up the compression ratio to 11.5-1 by fitting 1.0 pistons, have the cams dialled in by removing woodruff keys or pins whatever they are, have the fuelling adjusted (got an fse valve for the 1.6 injectors) and get the distributor turned etc to set ignition timing would I still need to play with the ecu or is there not much to gain in the maps department. Used to run an emerald ecu on last car but quite expensive.
Click to expand...

is it a stock ecu kipsy ?
 
kipsy said:
Yes totally standard I believe
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mine did,nt like the 1.6 injectors mate (stock 1.0 one) and i got on a lot better with the topfeed QG injectors.
and my cam dowels have a flat filed on them for adjustment (and securely bolted lol)
 
Been trying to find the ratios in the standard 1.3 box. Does anyone know approx what they are? Want to do a comparison with the dog box ratios. Cheers
 

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