Tyrie WROTE:
"turbo march-rolling shell WROTE:
"erm, a good computer is more then 2k, just to buy, let alone if you have to pay someone to wire it in and then dyno time aswell. i do everything myself, i've never added up what i spent on my original turbo cg that kovert now has, but i'd say it'd be close to 10k and then some, and the motor was untouched. guess there's 2 ways of doing stuff. cheap and cheerful. or buckets of power and reliability. probably why 3 years later the STOCK engine in koverts car is pumping out almost 160kw from around 16pound, when everyone else seems to be popping headgaskets and ringlands at 10psi trying to crack the 100kw barrier. "</div>
I would say 95% of that reliability is in the tune, and you don't have to have a $2000+ ecu to have a good tune. $300 NIStune could give the same results.
I would be interested in seeing a breakdown of that $10k to see how your extra $8000 makes such a big difference.
Edit: also does that mean the front page of the site should be edited to say that blue monster is not australia's most powerful micra? That article says 144kw @ 17psi, but Koverts car makes 160kw @ 16psi... pretty big difference!
yes, the site cover should have been edited a long time ago. , i have the dyno results to prove it, and they have been posted. but apparently due to the site owner at that time being a skirt, we needed a video to back up the results, which we did not have. however, once the car is back up in brisbane i'll be making sure to crank up the boost further and blow that 154kw out of the water with a ****ing video. i would agree that 95% of the reliability is in the tune. a good chunk of that 95% i would say is 80% driveability. $300 nistune is going to give you no where near the amount of reliability as a sm4 coupled with a 500r and custom crank and cam triggers (a big part that 90% of people miss, massive part of why the car is still going today), u simply wont get this with a lower quality computer, i've tried, used ems, microtech, haltech, adaptronic etc. maybe if the setup wasn't so highly strung, ie 16psi on a stock engine, a cheaper computer might suffice, but i believe the question here is power + reliability. lower quality computers just don't have the brain power and accuracy to CONSISTANTLY control the engine. the absolute worst in my opinion is the adaptronic. only thing id compare to an autronic is a motec, or the hks fcon V pro, some of the new link stuff isn't bad, but there's still quite a few little issues with the ecu's them selves ****ting injector drivers etc. stock computer and ignition is good for exactly that. a stock car. the way you can make the engine come onto boost, the actual car drive, injector and ignition control is uncomparable to a stock setup. anyone who has been in koverts car or even when the setup was in my car was amazed what the little 1.3 can do with the mods. do i honestly need to draw you a picture of how $8000 makes a difference? please compare your dyno graph to koverts for the answer.
1.the engine is STOCK, i don't see cams as being a vital engine modification for the reliability, which was the question at hand. and for the record, the pon cams do **** all for over all power, more improve the midrange torque then anything else. on an n/a car the 256's give about a 4kw gain, around the same turbo'd
2. almost 160kw
3. quick run of the top of my head
autronic sm4 + loom $2499
autronic 500r, cdi coils, leads $1500
vf30 ballbearing turbo $ 1500
turbo manifold + hpc $800
tial wastegate $350
3'' stainless turbo back exhaust, with stainless metal cat hpc and muffler $1200
fuel pump, injectors, custom motec fuel rail, fuel reg, $1000
custom pwr intercooler $850
stainless intercooler piping, turbosmart blow off valve $700
custom intake plenum, bellmouths t/b adaptor etc. $800
already at over $11000 and haven't even began to wire in computer,set and make up the crank and cam sensors, tune, install any of the parts, painting, polishing, clutch, flywheel, cams, few k worth of braided lines etc. at a guess if you had to pay someone you wouldn't get much change out of 20k =154.xkw @16psi
4. i've done 40 laps at 16psi at queensland raceway on that engine when it was in my car. an engine HAS been built for more power and more then twice the amount of boost which will be fitted to the car once his other project is finished
5. it definately is, allthough you cant turn **** into gold. any computer will work, the result and driveability will show. with cheaper computers like for example a microtech, there's simply no where near the amount of tuneability like you would have with an autronic/motec etc. not saying microtechs are ****, you just get what you pay for, good if your on a budget and arent expecting record breaking reliability or power. if you have the means, get kovert to take you for a drive in his car. dont try to tell me that microtechs are good etc. i've fitted a number of cars that have used microtechs and swapped to either an autronic or motec, it sounds stupid, but just by the sound of the engine, the way they rev, the autronic tunes up alot better, with the 500r and sm4, you can put in a new set of plugs, do 20 power runs, pull the plugs out and go return them where you bought them from, they run the engine that clean. cleaner engine = longer lasting. triggers play a massive part in running an engine. the fact that microtechs must be specifically mapped by microtech themselves to run on any specific engine is great, if you just want to wire the computer in, turn the key and drive away. microtechs are MODEL specific, and as such aren't specifically tailored to work with your cars triggers, giving a result that works, but in a high power/reliability scenario is not a desirable way to accurately control the engine. great if you've had very little experience in aftermarket ecu's as they require very little work to get running. higher end ecus require all custom triggers or modified oem trigger units to work. ussually 2 triggers, one on the cam and the other on the crank giving better sync, giving more consistant ignition timing / fueling results compared to oem or cheaper ecus that dont' have the capability to run these sorts of configurations. so please don't compare cheaper ecu's to motorsport ones.
5.1 the iac valve on the new plenum has been deleted, so cold starts arent factory, that and the fact that kovert lives whats basically the south pole regarding temperatures is less then favourable for cold starts.
i apoligize if any of my comments seem somewhat blunt. it just makes my blood boil when people compare something crap, to something good. ie a $300 tune will give the same results as a $2000+ computer etc. yeh... no. that just shows a lack of knowledge and experience on your part
