Micra K11 doesn't start after short drive - Start only with open airbox

Kefke

Kefke

Hi guys,

I have a problem with my 1.0 k11 '98.
This has been the 2nd time in a short periode that when I start the car cold, move it some meters and power it off again the car won't start the day after.
When I open the airbox it starts with much effort.
I noticed before that it smokes sometimes black so my conclusion is that the engine is flooded.
I check the throttle body, it's in good shape.
Who can help me?

Thanks!
 
Hi Frank, I read about it!
Does somebody know what resistor it is? Is it something I can replicate myself?
Or can you still buy it with Nissan? Does somebody know what partnr it is?
 
Kefke said:
Hi Frank, I read about it!
Does somebody know what resistor it is? Is it something I can replicate myself?
Or can you still buy it with Nissan? Does somebody know what partnr it is?
Click to expand...
i ran 2 temp sensors on mine to cure it mate, one cabletied inside the engine bay :)
 
resistance increase. and mind the fan may also stay on longer.
on obd device it shows temp higher than it is when 2 are connected proving it works.

first check your sensor is in specification.
 
Ok, I have a Haynes manual of the car so I will check the sensor.
But what I don't understand Frank:
Situation: There is one temp sensor which doesn't work correctly from factory.
Solutions:
-fix by Nissan: Can you still get it?
-Add a resistor: Does anybody knows what the value should be? Serial or parallel?
-Add a second sensor (if I understand correctly): How does this solve it? Because the sensor is in the air?? Or are there 2 sensors? I don't get it :-/
 
the sensor works ok kefke, its the ecu programming that overfuels, affecting the early models, so software corrected after a certain date maybe ?
fitting a 2nd sensor will bump up the temp signal value to the ecu, and leaving the 2nd one out of the coolant wont affect the running temp too much :)
 
Mine would always do the same.
The engine would flood and it would be a pig to start.
Easy fix if it floods is to remove the fuel pump fuse, (15amp blue) turn the engine over and it will eventually start. Then quickly push the fuse back in before it stalls :)
 
wehey said:
Mine would always do the same.
The engine would flood and it would be a pig to start.
Easy fix if it floods is to remove the fuel pump fuse, (15amp blue) turn the engine over and it will eventually start. Then quickly push the fuse back in before it stalls :)
Click to expand...
If I open the airbox it starts also after some throuble.
But the thing is, the mpg is also very bad when the bad starting occurs and the cars smokes a lot.
So it doesn't only start rich, it runs all the time rich.
That is not good for MPG, oil quality, ....
So I'll investigate the values and keep you posted.
 
Hi r-reg-sr, I don't have access to that link.
@frank: 15kOhm resistor in parallel with the temp sensor, that is what i needed to know!
Do you have also experience with the tip about the air idle valve plug like r-reg-sr?

edit: I forgot to mention how fantastic you guys are, thanks!!!
 
Hi guys,

I have finally an update for you! (I was on holiday etc etc)

So, about our little Micra Racer :)

First on-topic:
I found an 15kOhm resistor (like was mentioned before, only the link doesn't work anymore :( ) and I connected it in parallel to the big temp sensor.

2015-08-15 14.34.34.jpg 2015-08-15 14.39.07.jpg 2015-08-15 14.54.49.jpg

I started the car, but I didn't noticed much difference. But we will see in the future. I hope it will work thanks guys.

I replaced the spark plugs and I saw that the the distributor+rotor had some corrosion on the contact points?
When do these need to be replaced? The car has 78.000km - 17 years old and it's still the first set I think.
I'm going to install new ones.

When driving home from the shop I noticed the car was much slower. I stopped and noticed that my handbrake was locked. After investigation the left handbrake cable cracked and was locked. I couldn't get it unlocked :( so I'll need to order a new one...

Also the exhaust need to be replaced. A lot of costs for the little Micra....

IMG-20150816-WA0003.jpg IMG-20150816-WA0005.jpg

2015-08-15 16.24.20.jpg
 
before any modding I usually first test & diagnose if the sensor is operating properly within the original spec tolerances.
simply remove the 2-pin ECU coolant sensor, check resistances whilst submerged in a tub of boiled water with thermometer and plot if its Ohms/DegC is close to this graph

https://www.micra.org.uk/threads/pollymobiles-rebuild.35251/page-119#post-704079

if the dizzy cap has a thick white oxide inside, wirebrush it off to bare metal preferably with a dremel cos this affects how strong it ignites during cold starts.

check if the idle control valve is clean & working smoothly
 
pollyp said:
before any modding I usually first test & diagnose if the sensor is operating properly within the original spec tolerances.
simply remove the 2-pin ECU coolant sensor, check resistances whilst submerged in a tub of boiled water with thermometer and plot if its Ohms/DegC is close to this graph

https://www.micra.org.uk/threads/pollymobiles-rebuild.35251/page-119#post-704079

if the dizzy cap has a thick white oxide inside, wirebrush it off to bare metal preferably with a dremel cos this affects how strong it ignites during cold starts.

check if the idle control valve is clean & working smoothly
Click to expand...

Thanks for your respond!

About the temp sensor: It isn't easy to remove it! I measured the value when it was installed.
Without the extra resistor it was 0.85kOhm and with the resistor it was 0.9kOhm
If there is no difference I'l try to remove it and compare it to your sheet, thanks for the documentation!

It had oxide inside, I removed it with some sandpaper. But wouldn't it be better if I replace it?
Because no it has little scratches on the contact points. It's £20 for the dizzycap and £5 for the rotor or something...

I checked the sensor on the throttlebody and it works fine. The TPS I already checked and finetuned.
Where is that ICV located? Because some responses ago somebody was talking about removing it but I don't know where it is located...

Thanks for the effort to help me!
 
Hi guys, the resistor trick didn't had effect :'(
It still starts bad, you need to give it a tick on the throttle otherwise it doesn't start.
The exhaust is black from running so rich :(
Like pollyp said, I'm gonna check the sensor and I'm going to search info about the idle valve-thing...
 
a dremel wirebrush wheel does a far thorough job cleaning the oxide off dizzy cap points down to shiny bare metal for the best spark.
no need to fork out ££ for dizzy cap & rotors if their clearances are still within spec and a simple cheap wirebrush will refresh em.

the Idle Air Control Valve on a prefacelift is the big grey round solenoid at the front of the throttle body

c725uz-206-jpg.30685


btw does your TB have this green spring fast idle waxstat thing at the back?

k750-124-jpg.33770


if so, follow this guide to remove it cos it causes lotsa issues when it's most likely seized (including too low rpm cold starts, high rpm warm idle).

https://www.micra.org.uk/threads/pollymobiles-rebuild.35251/page-19#post-446256

the temp sensor is sooo easy to remove. just drain the coolant out, deep 6 sided socket & extension on the sensor and unscrew
 
It's a pre-facelift with the moustache.
11222134_10207465720818347_1325877067072810351_n.jpg


Thanks (again!) for the explanation! I already bought the rotor and dizzycap. It was like £15 for the set (from Nippon parts), now I have finally a "made in Japan" part on the Micra haha :D
It was never replaced, for that money I didn't doubt because of it's age. It looked like the rotor is worn out and I have removed the oxidation from the contact points but it was corroded.

Anyhow, I'm going to check the valve/idle waxtat tonight. The sensor is much harder for me then for you because I have a LHD car and there is very little room!

About the "datascan" reading, what tool is that? Is it OBDII, because I have a bluetooth stick for that...
 
Okay, so here is an update:

I replaced the dizzycap and rotor. You can see that there is a real difference between the new and old rotor.
I don't notice much difference about it while driving, maybe a little more power in the top end, but I'm not sure.
Anyhow, I'm gonna keep the old dizzycap and rotor, you never know...
2015-09-01 17.13.37.jpg


Then, we removed the thermowax-thingy, that wasn't that hard.
After that we removed the ACV. It wasn't locked and it wasn't that dirty but we decided to open it anyway. We set some markers on it and but it back exact like it was (later)
When we opend the motor, we saw that there was little bit of cuttings in it! We don't know it can happen, but we try to remove everything. The roll bearing etc was still in perfect shape.

2015-09-01 18.12.40.jpg


2015-09-01 18.12.47.jpg


So, now, it's just a matter of testing.
The engine still needs a blip on the throttle before it starts. I don't like it, but if the MPG is okay now and it always starts I'm (and especially my gf) will be happy.

Today I booked the boat to the UK (WITH THE MICRA :D) and orderd the JAE tickets.
Are you guys going to be there too? If so, please let me know what Belgian beer you like and I bring some for the effort.

Thanks and I keep you guys posted!
 
Kefke said:
Okay, so here is an update:

I replaced the dizzycap and rotor. You can see that there is a real difference between the new and old rotor.
I don't notice much difference about it while driving, maybe a little more power in the top end, but I'm not sure.
Anyhow, I'm gonna keep the old dizzycap and rotor, you never know...
View attachment 44639

Then, we removed the thermowax-thingy, that wasn't that hard.
After that we removed the ACV. It wasn't locked and it wasn't that dirty but we decided to open it anyway. We set some markers on it and but it back exact like it was (later)
When we opend the motor, we saw that there was little bit of cuttings in it! We don't know it can happen, but we try to remove everything. The roll bearing etc was still in perfect shape.

View attachment 44640

View attachment 44641

So, now, it's just a matter of testing.
The engine still needs a blip on the throttle before it starts. I don't like it, but if the MPG is okay now and it always starts I'm (and especially my gf) will be happy.

Today I booked the boat to the UK (WITH THE MICRA :D) and orderd the JAE tickets.
Are you guys going to be there too? If so, please let me know what Belgian beer you like and I bring some for the effort.

Thanks and I keep you guys posted!
Click to expand...

that rotor is pretty worn down. gives the IGN system a hard time getting a good spark, especially cold starts. so good thing its replaced.

that metal debris inside the IACV motor ain't good, but I don't see any metal contact to cause it (perhaps it was opened before and some debris got in?).
as long as the valves ball bearing spins effortlessly and the valve is clean of carbon and preferably calibrated, it should work fine now.

yep going to jae, I'll see you either at Andys bright spark racing stand or MSC and give ur systems a once over ;)
I don't normally drink booze but my preferance are cider (koppenberg/strongbow) or alcopops (wkd/smirnoff).
I heard germany & belgium have some nice beers during my trip to nurburg (when I tried the beer dad got at restaurant, twas smooth). can get me anything u think would be nice :D
 
pollyp said:
that rotor is pretty worn down. gives the IGN system a hard time getting a good spark, especially cold starts. so good thing its replaced.

that metal debris inside the IACV motor ain't good, but I don't see any metal contact to cause it (perhaps it was opened before and some debris got in?).
as long as the valves ball bearing spins effortlessly and the valve is clean of carbon and preferably calibrated, it should work fine now.

yep going to jae, I'll see you either at Andys bright spark racing stand or MSC and give ur systems a once over ;)
I don't normally drink booze but my preferance are cider (koppenberg/strongbow) or alcopops (wkd/smirnoff).
I heard germany & belgium have some nice beers during my trip to nurburg (when I tried the beer dad got at restaurant, twas smooth). can get me anything u think would be nice :D
Click to expand...

Yeah, I read in your topic that you went to the Ring!
To bad I didn't saw it (and I was on holiday :rolleyes:) because I live "next" to the E40 between Brussels and Germany.
The ring is a 2-2,5hour drive.

I'l bring some sweet fruit beers for you, that you will enjoy I think.:cool:

edit: What do you mean with "give your system a one over?" :s
 
Only went on the ring twice cos of endless red flags and terrifying penalty costs. The public roads were so much better.

Fruit beer sounds shweet.

Once over meaning I'll check the conditions of all the sensors, dizzy timing, calibrate iacv & idle with laptop etc.
 
Yeah, i know! I always drive +-100km to the German border and from there on I'l drive through the Eifel. Superb roads!
All the people who take the highway don't know what they miss!

About the check-up, that would be great man! Thanks a lot!!!
I'm curious about the result!

The beer is on the luggage list!
 
eifel roads are awsome.
the E40 interchanges during lunchtime were absolute mental, ppl diving in/out with no warning, quite stressful.
speed limited E40 outside rushhour is quite boring long.
but the unlimited E40 was something else, it felt naughty to be able to go that fast :p

appreciate the beer offer ;)
 
After the setup of @pollyp we didn't had any starting problems.
But yesterday I cleaned the Micra and drove it back in its spot, this morning the car wouldn't start.
Again with the airbox open en then after a LONG time it started very bad....
The idle was going up and down and then it was ok.
I think I'm gonna make a switch on the fuelpump so it wouldn't flood anymore.
The car much to rich when it's cold. I see it when my gf leaves in the morning, it's all black smoke and the consumption is a lot when it's cold.
Maybe a potentio meter is a solution? Then you can adjust it yourself :D
 
pollyp said:
Maybe coolant sensor resistance reading too cold making it cold start too rich?
Click to expand...
I did the adjustment with the resitor and you tested it with your computer?
The strange thing is, it's only when the car drove a small distance.
I think there is something that only "resets" when the engine had been hot or something...
 
Kefke said:
I did the adjustment with the resitor and you tested it with your computer?
The strange thing is, it's only when the car drove a small distance.
I think there is something that only "resets" when the engine had been hot or something...
Click to expand...

the only proper way to test the sensor accuracy is to remove and check its resistances in a pan of water with a thermometer n see if its in spec.
https://www.micra.org.uk/threads/pollymobiles-rebuild.35251/page-119#post-704079

plugging the laptop in will only tell me what the sensor is telling the ecu, not how accurate the old sensor is.
 

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