Heater Matrix question

reflexuk

reflexuk

Removed the heater matrix today. Can I simply block the two water pipes that lead to/from it? Will I stop the coolant from circulating properly if I block them? Is it preferable to connect them together?
 
Ha, no driving it in winter months yet!

Note to self, add thermostat to shopping list.

Anyone seen 12v fan heater I can replace that 7.25kg pile of fan, ducting pull cables and last remains of sound proofing that came out? The ducting to the screen has so far survived the cull, it has a rectangular inlet apeture that looks spot on for a fan heater.
 
:)
My current steed was enriching for 2 miles (till the temp gauge needle started to move) your needle must be pretty lethargic lol .
And i ran with a headlight bulb in the fan intake for a while, they kick out some heat eh
 
Yes, if I don't get opportunity to drive at my own pace ;) it can stay cool for ages. The needle normally settles around 1/3rd up and when using 2nd gear up a long steep hill peaks at around 1/2 way up. I have a fan override switch and the only time I feel the need to use it is doing throttle heavy 1st gear low speed stuff like the autosolo at Halewood.

I like the bulb/multibulb idea! The fan isn't going back in so I need something to move the air too. What can I do with the gaping hole, newly opened, from the wiper area vents to the missing fan unit?
 
the heater matrix circuit runs parallel to the engines coolant return pipe so blocking it won't disturb engine cooling.

with matrix removed (if ya don't mind replacing the coolant return pipe o-ring) you could also cap off or crimp in vice the metal ports on the coolant return pipe that the heater rubber pipes goto (eliminates some useless hoses n weight)

while ur there may as well remove the TB coolant lines & crimp up their ports in the return pipe (keeps TB cooler) and remove the TB waxstat mechanism (prevent TB stuck in fast idle since the coolant lines disconnected)
 
reflexuk said:
Yes, if I don't get opportunity to drive at my own pace ;) it can stay cool for ages. The needle normally settles around 1/3rd up and when using 2nd gear up a long steep hill peaks at around 1/2 way up. I have a fan override switch and the only time I feel the need to use it is doing throttle heavy 1st gear low speed stuff like the autosolo at Halewood.

I like the bulb/multibulb idea! The fan isn't going back in so I need something to move the air too. What can I do with the gaping hole, newly opened, from the wiper area vents to the missing fan unit?
Click to expand...

maybe hook up an electric house fan heater to a high watt inverter?
 
reflexuk said:
Ha, no driving it in winter months yet!

Note to self, add thermostat to shopping list.

Anyone seen 12v fan heater I can replace that 7.25kg pile of fan, ducting pull cables and last remains of sound proofing that came out? The ducting to the screen has so far survived the cull, it has a rectangular inlet apeture that looks spot on for a fan heater.
Click to expand...

Cbsonline.co.uk car builder solutions do a 12v heater blower for £26.40 bud.. It's rectangular as well :)
 
reflexuk said:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-CAR-A...402?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item4842d8850a

What do we think? will check dimensions tommorow
Click to expand...

tried those during desperate winters, absolute useless imo. the heater elements no bigger than a 50p and is about as useful as small hamsters breath...ur fingers, toes, entire cabin will still be freezing lol.

my remedy during winter before going to work was to leave a hairdryer on full blast inside the car hooked to an extension for least 5-10mins and then the cabins all warm. keeping the vent fans off and recirc and heater set to cold until the engines warmed up, or else all that heat will be purged out n wasted away.
 
wernt you gonna do away with the standard heavy motor/fan and place another lighter elec one somewhere closer or over the matrix ?
 
R-REG-SR said:
wernt you gonna do away with the standard heavy motor/fan and place another lighter elec one somewhere closer or over the matrix ?
Click to expand...

dont have time money or effort to develop such ghetto electric heater mod.

although further thought...the cabin heater is reliant on engine coolant heat so what bout this?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cooling-Sys...Parts_Accessories&hash=item27c9c6f027&vxp=mtr

!B3(geN!!2k~$(KGrHqQOKnUE)5T1koT5BMl8K(w)Zg~~_35.JPG


simply plumb this into the coolant lines (return hose from thermostat to coolant return pipe) and powered by a high watt inverter connected to the battery/alternator. so in winter you start engine, heater dial on cold to heat up the coolant asap, turn on inverter & coolant pre-heater, wait till the temp gauge warmed up in few mins/sec, turn cabin heater to warm/hot, then turn off preheater to save fuel (though heater is thermal controlled to 60-80C so prob no risk of overheating if left on)

no need to remove dash n heater systems n less work, engine gets upto operating temp alot faster (summer or winter) = heating system works alot sooner = you n passengers get warm & demist windows quicker

listing says it designed for least 15litre systems at 1kW 220V but with my 250W inverter it'll theoretically still handle least 3.75litre systems and the micra system runs bout 3L :p

will be interesting to test this out next winter
 
When i ditched my heater matrix i used 22mm copper and 2 jubilees and cut the 2 coolant pipes and linked them together. Worked really well, as for 12v heaters theyre useless! My plastic windows froze inside and out and had to sit for ages to defrost which was impossible during minus temps. Also steaming up was a big issue
 
one time in winter when picking up my workm8 down the road i remember resorting to the tried & tested ace ventura style sticking ur head out method cos the winscreen kept freezing/misting up lol
engine warmed up moments later n demisted the screen.
 
Whilst we are on the subject (and the temp is dropping) can anyone tell me why my heater only ever gets warm and never hot??
 
^lol

anyway, the lack of heat felt in the air emitted from the vents even when the heater dial is set to full hot and directed to the front vents could be caused by several things in the chain, working systematically backwards (excuse the sheldon bigbangtheory-like description lol):
  • ur perseption of heat on ur hands is outnumbered by the freezing temp of the surrounding cabin air, or ur skin is cold blooded asbestos :p
  • incorrectly adjusted redirection controls leading to hot air partially bled to other vents rather than directed fully to the front vents
  • incorrectly adjusted temperature control vane - the dials set to hot but the vane could actually be at 75% hot so some of the fresh cool air bleeds through making it seem not as hot as before
  • intake air density too high - air flowing through the heater matrix is either too fast or far too cold for the matrix to transfer sufficient amount of heat from the coolant so the low amount of heat energy per cubic volume of air makes it feel though its not hot enough
  • heater matrix blocked by debris resulting in insufficient airflow/heat transfer through the matrix and the built up air pressure would rather take the easiest path around the cool side of the diverter vane hence more % of cool vs % of hot air = warm (can be tested by feeling if airflow seems alot more restricted when set to fully hot vs fully cold)
  • insufficient flow of hot coolant through the heater matrix due to either limescale/debris blockage in the matrix or incorrectly adjusted coolant flow control valve at one of the matrix coolant pipes connected to the heater dial mechanism
  • insufficient heat in the coolant - either cos the engine has just fired up and is still cold = wait abit longer to warm up, or the heat energy from the engine is removed from the coolant prematurely by the radiator before the system has reached 82C due to a stuck open/missing thermostat.
 
ghetto and money ? :)

i always use your 10 second method mate,or start up and drive of imediate. a lil higher rev driving to speed him up to temp, and moister probs on glass leaving it on recirc does
 
It's a competition car, so when in use properly keeping warm shouldn't be a problem, I will remove an exhaust heat shield to warm up the floor I think. The fan heater is only for the screen demisting and day to day practicality when initially setting off. If this 12v one turns out to be toss then I'll let you know in here. In terms of weight the standard ventilation system and controls is a costly luxury. Though you do see lots of rally cars that keep it, maybe it's due to the lack of a workable alternative.? The hot / cold control knob on mine has a broken 'white bit' inside anyway so was left at hot (I think) and the flow direction control looked like it was left on screen / feet but it wouldn't turn to both ends somehow either? I was disspointed to feel air blowing out the face vents when I turned it on so I wanted to get it sorted out somehow anyway. I never tried a car without one so I'd like to give it a go. There are plans C and D forming in the grey matter. One is a pc cooling fan and some headlamp bulbs and the other is now pc fan and a permanently open copper pipe running up behind the dash! Though I don't know how I would bend a suitable copper pipe!? Let's hope plan A is adequate. If not I can see plan B will be mounting it on the dash facing the glass.

Today I struggled to temporarily block the water hoses, I ended up clamping a wheel nut in there and blocking that with a bolt. I connected up the instrument panel to start the engine but nothing! The 12v would appear to be totaly flat, at least I hope that's it, not even a light on. :( I'll take another look tommorow. I can't for the life of me think why though?!!:confused:
 
Connected jump leads and the first thing to happen was the wipers went to home. Dunno why but this is the only potential cause of the flat batt that I can find. I'm falling out with the fan heater idea as I'm told they just don't move enough air to be effective, it will also consume over 10A of current from the already hard worked alternator (with spots etc) Plan E involves a high flow pc cooling fan or two and a ducting through the bulkhead hole left by the heater matrix pipes and over to the exhaust manifold. A vacuum cleaner pipe might do the trick. I just hope it doesn't stink or anything. Do we think that will work?
 
exhaust pipe heat exchangers maybe ? (vw beetle-esque) heated screen ? fanless microbore copper pipe between the dash and screen ?
 
20120924_125204_zpsa0cdbbac.jpg


The heater matrix weighs in at 1.1kg full of water. Plan F (it) says it could go back in and the pc fans encouraged to pull air through it or at least from it's general direction.

Everything I've read about this Ebay Maplin Nikkai A75FL unit says you could duct a fart with better effect :-(
 
pauls technique of repairing the rear screen demister lines,?????? make a few for front screen??
taking out existing heater motor is big weight saveing,,like you say pc fans then
 
Here is the progress so far on the heater demister replacement.
Coolant filled matrix element makes it back into use with high volume 80mm cpu fan screwed to it. Gasket is to prevent vibration noises.
20121002_161608.jpg


Here it is back in the car. The fan is set to blow through it. There isn't a feeling of much breeze there so it wont p*ss you off in the passenger seat but I think it will make a difference.
20121002_165134.jpg


And now for the Pièce de résistance. Two more 80mm cpu fans mounted in the bottom of the windscreen ducting. Together these babys really shift some air! I have been planning to install some ducting but because the whole space behind the dash will fill with warmed air it might turn out to be unnescessary.
20121001_233935-1.jpg


Next some testing vids I think.....
 
The cars interior doesn't heat up much so I am currently experimenting with different locations for the fan you see screwed to the heater matrix. It spent a little while on the bulkhead behind the rad but the air still doesn't get out into the car. Now it's in the (absent) glovebox region pointing forward onto the rad, no results yet.
 
It's good to see someone experimenting with this, despite the lack of positive results. A cheap, lightweight but decent heater system would be good if it's possible.
Good luck with it, I'll be attempting something like this, after winter though:p
 
i know this question will be very stupid for me....... i haven't explore inside of dashboard but i want to do it one day soon

have i got this heater matrix in my pre facelift?

Edit: cos I am going to fix this heating soon
 
R-REG-SR said:
more o r less a dash off job, why you have no heat ??
Click to expand...

I was just wondering if I got heater matrix. I think I got a problem with heating so it might be dirt block somewhere. ATM its warmish heating :S
 
reflexuk said:
The cars interior doesn't heat up much so I am currently experimenting with different locations for the fan you see screwed to the heater matrix. It spent a little while on the bulkhead behind the rad but the air still doesn't get out into the car. Now it's in the (absent) glovebox region pointing forward onto the rad, no results yet.
Click to expand...

How did you get on with the pc fan setup mate? i've just been given a handfull of them & fancy doing something similar
 
Still faffing about with it tbh. I don't seem able to shift enough air over the matrix and into the cabin to build up any worthwhile cabin temps. I reckon the heat I release from the matrix disappears up into the screen ducts which work quite well considering there is no 'fresh in' ducting.

I think trapping the matrix in a light plastic box with a fan, possibly two, mounted in its lid? is my next option. This way the box will pressurise and I can run small (vacuum cleaner pipe?) ducts away into the cabin footwells instead of leaving the warm air behind the dash. I'm thinking biscuit box or similar.

I say have a go, there are many more expensive ways to shed 5kg+ and none will give you the entertainment value this is giving me. lol.
 

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