French turbocharged project

[welcometohell38]

Hi MSC !

I'm Chris from France and i will try to present to you my
cheap turbo project (maybe the first in France ?) on my 2000 K11 CG13DE.
(i hope you understand my "frenglish"...)

This car is a "test car" to learn "turbocharged=>NA ECU tuning", welding...
I've got some pieces from other cars to build this low boost project:

old CA18DET 200SX T25 (too big ?)
GA16DE injectors
GA16DE throttlebody
QG18DE Almera injectors
CGA3DE fuel rail
Peugeot (C4?) intercooler
Cheap air intake
Spare CG13DE
Innovate MTX-L wideband
old VDO gauges (oil press/temp + volt + boost + tacho)
...

So i'll make my own top mount stainless steel T25 manifold (+elbow) to fit stock downpipe
(i hope stock exhaust is not too restrictive for the turbo... i'd like to set 0.4/0.5bars on the first old CG13).

And put GA16DE throttlebody + QG18DE injectors on CGA3DE fuel rail + install a Nistune daughterboard.
I hope everything can be fitted on this engine...

I have some questions:

- I can read here that a lot of people bypass the coolant hoses on the throttle body. Why ?

- Where I can put my coolant turbo hoses ?

See you there,
Chris

 

[pork]

Bonjour Chris

Look foward to seeing your progress.

 

[pollyp]

Hi Chris

I bypass/eliminated the TB coolant lines to prevent the hot coolant from heating up TB.
After disconnecting the TB coolant, the coolant operated fast idle waxstat will no longer work (although they tend to age & seize anyway) so the sprung waxstat mechanism that keeps the butterfly open will need to be removed. the electronic IACV at the front does the same fast idle job.

I further isolate the inlet manifold by fitting a PTFE spacer plate to keep the manifold stone cold.

by keeping most of the system cooler, the intake air picks up less heat and would remain cooler by the time it arrives at the inlet port resulting in cooler denser air, reduce detonation.

 

[Magpie42]

You're waaaaaaay too technical for me....but bienvenue all the same!

 

[pollyp]

You're waaaaaaay too technical for me....but bienvenue all the same!

colder air in = more power out
if tuned correctly

 

[pork]

colder air in = more power out
if tuned correctly

It may sound odd, but had anyone ever tried refrigerated intakes?

Stay with me here, for my compressors I work with we use air dryers (which are basically fridges) to cool the air to 5c (to condensate water then remove it)

They ain't that big in comparison to the size machines they are used to cool

So what if you rigged/plumbed in a refrigerated system to chill the incoming air?

Can't imagine the added weight would me anymore than a charge cooler system

 

[--alpina--]

A mate of mine many years ago built an M20 2.5 BMW engine and used his air condition air duct from inside and routed the duct pipe into the engine bay near the air filter and got MASSIVE gains but petrol was an issue..

J

 

[pork]

Yes! Brilliant idea, half tempted to mess around with the family megane scenic lol

 

[Enuo]

The extra air con pump load would negate any powet gains.

 

[h701micra]

Yes! Brilliant idea, half tempted to mess around with the family megane scenic lol

Not something else to chuck at the K10

 

[welcometohell38]

Thanks for your responses guys,

To begin this project, i'd like to test with GA16 throttle body + GA16 injectors + ecu N/A tuning to see the CG13 reactions.

I have to weld a bung on my stock downpipe and find how to connect the GA16 throttle body on the k11 loom.

The problem is: I must weld the bung before the cat to have good sensors values. but I don't know where...

I must keep my cat to pass the "french MOT".
An idea?

 

[pollyp]

if your wideband has an analog output, replace the O2 sensor on stock manifold with the wideband then wire the wideband analog output into the ECU O2 input.

 

[welcometohell38]

I've got a Innovate MTX-L wideband

 

[welcometohell38]

Some news !

Just received my stuff, installed the intercooler and the gauges.

Waitin' for my Nistune board.

Problem: my AFR is not very good, 15@2500 to 6000 rpm on WOT...
It's too lean right?
Ignition? Fuel pump? Tb?

I've tested with afr sensor on lambda plug + lambda emulator to ECU.

An idea?

 

[Daniel_]

What the frick frack diddly drack?

Are you running standard ECU with a turbo?

No wonder your AFR is too lean... It's supposed to be below 12.0 @ Wot

Install a Nistune board before proceeding, or say goodbye to your engine..

EDIT: I saw that you are running N/A still, here are what you should be aiming for:

• Idle/Cruise - 14.7 - 15.0
• Medium load - 14.0 - 13.5
• WOT (NA) - 12.8 - 13.2
• WOT (FI) - 11.5 - 12.0

Still, I would say that getting that nistune installed is your top priority!

EDIT2: I saw that you needed to pass inspection with your car. I am also running a Innovate MTX-L wideband, that I wired into my stock 02-sensor location, and used the simulated narrowband output wired into the stock 02-sensor ECU input.

In Nismotronic (kinda like Nistune), I enabled closed-loop with standard 02 sensor settings (in real life it's the MTX-L)

I passed inspection! Here is a thread with more detail on passing inspection with MTX-L: http://www.sr20-forum.com/nismotronic/74563-how-pass-smog-nismotronic-wideband.html

 

[welcometohell38]

Yes i know that, don't worry, the turbo is not installed, i have to weld the home made manifold. Only gauges (and intercooler) have been installed, I'd like to monitor standard setup to see if everything is fine and... no ! My AFR are bad.

I have to find what is the problem.

 

[Daniel_]

Have you installed any other injectors/fuel rail? Maybe forgotten to plug in the vacuum line to the fuel pressure regulator?

 

[welcometohell38]

Not yet, just received my cga3de fuel rail and almera 1.8 injectors.

I have to modify my ga16 tb (not installed too) to fit the top feed rail.

 

[Daniel_]

Ok. I would not worry too much about the AFR with the standard ECU. They have been proven to not be so good tuned from the factory, that's why aftermarket ECU's are so much better.

Install Nistune Then check the AFR

 

[welcometohell38]

Thanks !!

I hope my NATS gonna work with my Nistune board...

 

[welcometohell38]

Any ideas on my problems: my CG13 runs too lean on WOT (13.5/14 Afr).

Timing is ok.
New spark plugs.
I'll test the fuel pressure... (Bought a gauge on amazon this morning).

My engine vibrate: rear engine mount is dead, I need a new one !

 

[pollyp]

disconnect the speedo hall sensor wire from the ecu loom (either block the terminal with paper, cut the speed wire or fit a toggle switch like mine)

when on, it allows the IACV to keep revs up when above 5mph in-gear for crawling in traffic but it makes it lean-out in 4-5th on boost.
when off, the ecu runs as mapped without knowing road speed but loses the in-gear crawling idle-up but that's a minor thing.

 

[welcometohell38]

My turbo is not installed yet.


Here is a (bad) video of first and second gear. You can see AFRs....
It's good on very high revs but on WOT from 0 to 6000 it's too lean i think...

 

[welcometohell38]

No ideas?

 

[frank]

with intake mods and stock ecu/injectors it will go lean on wot, thats normal

 

[welcometohell38]

Thanks franck that is what i want to hear !

 

[welcometohell38]

Some news about my micra !

Nistune installed, the car have been tuned by myself:

The fuel and timing map have been modified, the gain of torque and horsepower is funny but i have to work on the fuel map to adjust it a little bit.

Now i have to build my turbo manifold: