CG10 coilpack to ? engine

[doug77]

Hi guys, first post so feel free to castrate me if i asking something that i could have found here but i have searched high and low and really cant find anything.

I have a micra with a 1.0 coilpack engine in it. I'm going to replace this engine as it inhaled a puddle during the winter!.....however, I'm a bit stuck on what will fit as opinions differ. I'm wanting to keep the 1.0 ecu gearbox/flywheel etc as this is being done on a very tight budget and the close ratio is appealing!
So basically i want to change the engine but retain the 1.0 ignition system, ECU and gearbox.

my sticking points are:

1. Will any CG engine fit mechanically with a 1.0 coilpack gearbox/flywheel? id like to put a 1.3/4 engine in her
2. Can i trigger the coilpack setup using some setup on a pre-coilpack engine?

Im not looking to win any races or even pass an emissions test as the car has 6 months left on the road and its probably going to be the end of the road when it gets MOT'd next as shes got some pretty significant rust coming in now! Thanks in advance for any help, any insight is appreciated.

 

[frank]

you could fit a 1.4 engine, or a 1.3 short block doug

 

[doug77]

thanks for the super quick reply frank! top stuff, id hoped to hear from you as i see you are active and knowledgeable on these forums just to make sure by short block you mean engine without gearbox? or would i have to use the 1.0 head? - do you know if the cg13 has the same cam sensor setup as a coilpack cg10?

couple more things if possible do you know if the exhaust manifold spacings will be the same (so i can use old exhaust) and are the rocker covers interchangeable (so i can use the old one to have something to bolt the coilpacks to!) thanks again much appreciated

 

[frank]

short block mate (headless)
the coilpack head is different, with the cam sensor on the chain end, and no dizzy hole.
the 1.0 cams are very tame tho, so 1.3/1.4 ones needed preferably .
and the coilpack exh mani is just a tad shorter in height

 

[doug77]

great info thanks, im now wondering if they trigger in the same way so i could just splice the cam sensor from the dizzy setup into the current loom? as far as i can find out they are both hall effect sensors with the same impedance and both trigger once per rotation of the camshaft so may be able to get away with this....? the throttle bodies look different between the two as well do you know if they're interchangeable? im off to a scrappys tomorrow for a look around so ill have a look in person im sure this will be better than scouring the internet for pictures!! Do you think id get away with using the current exhaust with a cg13 engine or would it foul the sump or other?

any idea if the cg13 has a blanking plate where the cg10 has a cam sensor? im reluctant to get into changing heads as i dont have a torque wrench and dont want to shell out for a new head gasket!!

 

[doug77]

looking like a 1.4 engine may be the much easier option! shame they're so rare....damn coilpack malarky!

 

[frank]

the coilpack ones have a crank and cam sensor doug, with a very different ecu/loom etc.
the exhaust will fit fine, and 1.3 crank and rod into your block is another option

 

[doug77]

ok cool this all makes sense now, thanks for all the help its much appreciated iv been round and about all local scrappies here all day and i follow whats been said with the coilpack and non coilpack engines. The throttle bodies inc sensors look very different between generations too. So if i were to use a 1.3 short block and cams i think the 1.0 throttle body may be restrictive although i dont know if the 1.0 vs 1.4 TB is a different bore.....

As the current engine seized solid (wont turn even 1 degree either way!!) when it tried to compress the puddle I'm reluctant to rely on its integrity although the valvetrain looks ok from above and the head is most likely ok.....sooo plan B is to get a nice common cg13 and make a frankengine......for now plan A is to try n find a 1.4 and have some plug and play low ratio fun!!

many thanks for the advice

 

[frank]

you probably bent a rod like mine doug and the 1.0 and 1.4 t/b are the same eh

 

[doug77]

holy smokes u been catching sum big fish with that rod how'd u manage that?!! im amazed the TBs are the same but thats v.good to know....kinda wanna build up a motor now!...I'll def strip the old one to see what carnage has occurred if theres anything photo worthy ill get em up

 

[frank]

holy smokes u been catching sum big fish with that rod how'd u manage that?!! im amazed the TBs are the same but thats v.good to know....kinda wanna build up a motor now!...I'll def strip the old one to see what carnage has occurred if theres anything photo worthy ill get em up

overboosted a high comp engine doug and re-used a dodgy head gasket the bottom of the liner was a bit scarred, but was re-assembled with another rod and piston

 

[doug77]

overboosted a high comp engine doug and re-used a dodgy head gasket the bottom of the liner was a bit scarred, but was re-assembled with another rod and piston

hehe cracking effort m8! budget in mind what are your thoughts on head gasket re-use for this relatively low stress application...?

 

[frank]

i,ve re-used loads mate, but this one bit me on the bum (was rotten around that fire-ring eh) i have a £12 ebay one on the current engine (CGA3 block + pistons/CG head)

 

[doug77]

Right we decided on a cga3 engine in the end, got one off the eBay and successfully swapped it in using the 1.0 gearbox n flywheel used a bar and some rope to lift it in and out! gotta love little engines!!

First try the starter wasn't engaging so we immediately assumed something was wrong with the engine/gearbox mating! After significant steam from ears and crying at the thought of taking it all apart again it turned out the bendix in the starter was just seized and not throwing out properly!! Then the whole engine wouldn't turn so we panicked again!! turned out the alternator was seized enough to stop the engine turning even with a push downhill in 5th!! after we took the starter and alternator off and freed them up it fired up no problem

We had to rewire the ignition as some carrot thieves had tried to steal the car and cut thru all the ignition wires, thank goodness all the NATS system stayed quiet and a simple reconnect was all that was required!

Seems to run lovely on the 1.0 ecu!! plenty of power for sure! the EML came on initally for a wee while. After a less leaky exhaust was fitted the light only goes on till the cars moved a few yards then it just stays off! so the ECU seems happy with the larger engine and it runs like a dream!! Having a beautifully running 26k mile engine in a 110k rusty micra is pretty amusing at the lights!!

Id like to extend a big thanks to Frank and the crew for all the advice in this and all the other threads iv read to allow all this to happen, big love to the micra.org.uk massive

Some pics:

Mid swap - the leg bones connected to the, erm....

All in! spot the ageing gearbox!!

The inside of the old engine having inhaled the puddle: rod no.1

And rod no.4

We figured that due to the design of the intake mani that the outer two cylinders were fed more water as they take from the bottom of the plenum!! the tow starting attmepts while it was full of water probably explain why two rods were gone as i doubt this could have happened in one sitting!! the block was also heavily cracked where the rods had impacted it.

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[MicrAde]

Proper job on them rods