52 plate micra 1.0 s auto mods help

D

Dinky DK

Heya guys, decided to re post this here as i havent had many replies in 'general' this also seems the better location to post. After trawling the forums and doing as much reasearch as possible on the little k11s i decided to join the forum and ask the questions i cannot find answers to without upsetting to many people. I am due to be getting a 52 plate coil pack 1.0 auto micra s on the road in approx febuary 2014. However i am likley to take ownership of it in a few months. My plan is to carry out most of the mods before i put her on the road so as to not interfere with my daily commute, however i have come across a few hurdles during my research.

I would like to free up the breathing with a few basic mods as follows: EBBDude style ga15 or similar TB, ga15 injectors, a p11 primera 1.6 airbox with green cotton filter, cg13 cams and frankspeed exaust manafold if avaliable, adj fuel pressure reg and uprated fuel pump. I am also considering a capacity and C/R increase by using 1.0l pistons on a 1.3L crankshaft. along with a suitable remap using a nistune board loaded with a 1.3 map modified to suit my modifications. A few cosmetic mods will folllow including tinted rear windows, coded rubstrip and bumper trims, window wind deflectors and hopefully flocked dash and door cards with some primera GTI seats (no fowling issues in reverse gear due to auto box). Also a FREE set of white 16" 5 spoke white momo wheels :). suspension, braking and cat back exhaust will then be tackled later on when money is less tight.

First hurdle - unfortunatley i think the TB on my car is the bosch unit with built in MAF and have no idea if the ga15 unit will be a suitable replacement. Also i beleive the auto box requires an aditional mechanism on the TB to work properly, which would mean finding a rather rare GA15auto TB. however i may be wrong.

Second hurdle - I cannot find a p11 (or other suitable) airbox anywhere in wiltshire.

Third Hurdle - I have read a few times that the N-cvt gearbox dosent cope very well with tuning, and a manual conversion isnt within budget. In peoples opinions would the box cope with the power from these mods? im expecting maybe around the 70-75bhp mark inc the 1.3conversion?

any help would be greatly appreciated.
 
micra momos.jpg
 
Problem with an auto box is that no matter what youd never pull the skin off a rice pudding tbh.

You'll waste your time with the 1.3 crank, no difference iirc.

Nistune and a map will set you back about 500.

16s? Sweet Jesus. Maybe they were free for a reason.
 
the g/box will be the later type DK (fitted to various nissans i believe) so should be fine :)
and it will have the motronic ecu (no nistune option)
 
You'll waste your time with the 1.3 crank, no difference iirc.

16s? Sweet Jesus. Maybe they were free for a reason.
Click to expand...

Surely a 250cc increase will make a difference, even if only a small one? (silly question but what does iirc stand for? kinda new to forums lol). whats wrong with 16s? my lil bro couldent be bothered to fit the longer studs required to fit his corolla so he gave me them :).


and it will have the motronic ecu (no nistune option)
Click to expand...

If theres no nistune option for this ecu what other options are avaliable? (excluding an aftermarket system like omex as on a tight budget). im assuming a 1.4 auto ecu wont transfer over due to NATS without replacing locks n ignition barrel etc.

anyone have any ideas regarding the T/B setup? im realy stumped by it.
 
Dinky, save money and get a 1.3 manual. Literally no point in any of those mods on a 1L auto, no offence.

TB, injectors etc all pointless without a proper map (like skymera said, 500 min), they give you the potential for extra power not bolt on "extra power"

16s will put the gear ratios wayyyy out which with an auto box isn't the best idea.

Only reason to have a 1L auto would be for the extra strength of the engine, and to swap the GB for a manual in order to turbo.
 
Dinky DK said:
Surely a 250cc increase will make a difference, even if only a small one? (silly question but what does iirc stand for? kinda new to forums lol). whats wrong with 16s? my lil bro couldent be bothered to fit the longer studs required to fit his corolla so he gave me them :).
Click to expand...


The crank isn't different. It's the rods and pistons. Crank wont gain you cc or get you laid.

What's right with 16s? Too big for such a small car.

15s look alright if they're tasteful and on the right tyre.


The most cost effective mod you can do is to fit a larger engine.
 
skymera said:
The crank isn't different. It's the rods and pistons. Crank wont gain you cc or get you laid.

What's right with 16s? Too big for such a small car.

15s look alright if they're tasteful and on the right tyre.


The most cost effective mod you can do is to fit a larger engine.
Click to expand...
Actually, the crank has a longer throw on the 1.3... only way to increase displacement is larger diameter pistons (same dia betwenn 1.0 and 1.3) and increasing the stroke...
 
Actually, the crank has a longer throw on the 1.3... only way to increase displacement is larger diameter pistons (same dia betwenn 1.0 and 1.3) and increasing the stroke...
Click to expand...

yea, therefore longer stroke same diameter piston = 275cc increase in capacity. flat top (1.0L pistons) instead of dished (1.3L) pistons = increased compression ratio.
coupled with a 1.3 cams and suitable mapping = exactly what Nissan did to make the 1.3L. only diference is the 1.0L lighter pulleys etc releasing (admittedly minimal) power gains and the higher C/R. couple that with any gains from a frankspeed mani and cat back plus the affore mentioned TB/Injector mods and your looking at reasonable gains. also, with reference to the ratios on the wheels affecting the auto box, if as frank suggests, the late model auto box was used on other nissans and will take the power gains then it should follow that either the standard box is suited to a range of ratios OR can be altered to accomodate them, otherwise they would only have been used on the micra and would not cope with the power anyway.

Does anyone know the part number of the late model auto boxes so i can check this and see if and what other cars it is used on. Also does anyone know what diameter the standard 1.0 vales are and what is the lift on a standard 1.3 cam? as i understand it the optimum rate of flow through the valve is achieved at (lift = 25% valve diameter), wanna start doing some sums :). if the lift is higher than 25% then the Valve diameter will need to be increased accordingly. May require some 1.6 vales n some head work. (obviously only if the g/box will be suitable).

i will be willing to use a suitable piggyback ecu and spend some cash on dyno etc when money is less tight. i am also willing to spend time learning and researching how to map ecus myself. however this is preliminary research to find out what is possible and expand on my knowledge. Not an opportunity to belittle a noob and make yourself look ignorant in the process. my mechanical knowledge is reasonable not perfect. however if i am to be corrected at any point, please ensure your scorning is based on FACTS and i will graciously accept the opportunity to learn from you. If you wish to criticize not educate then i suggest typing less and studying more yourself to be a pertinent course of action.
 
the GA valve heads are bigger, but the stems are 3mm shorter, all the CG valves are the same, the 1.0 is 6mm lift/196 deg, and 1.3 is 8mm lift/222 deg, and google came back with the cvt g/box numbers for me in the past :)
 
Taking Optimum rate of flow through the valve is achieved at (lift = 25% valve diameter).

Then

CG exhaust valve is 22.5mm Diameter so optimum flow is achieved at 5.625mm of lift. CG inlet valve is 27.5mm diameter so optimum flow is achieved at a lift of 6.875mm.
To fully utilise the flow available from an 8mm lift, valves would have to have a diameter of 32mm. Do you know what the largest valve diameter is that can be safely fitted without causing damage when cutting out the seats? GA16 Inlet valves are 30mm Diameter, therefore full flow is achieved at 7.5mm Lift and GA16 exhaust valves are 24mm achieving full flow at 6mm Lift.

All in all it would be best to have a CG13 inlet valve (27mm) in place of the STD exhaust valve and a custom valve with a head of 32mm on the inlet side operating via the 1.3 cams if the seats can be cut out that far without any operating issues. This would result in valves larger and freer flowing valves than come standard in a GA16. I would guess that standard 1.3 cam duration would be more than suitable making any 'Wild' cam profiles either redundant or very exciting dependant on your fuelling and ignition set up. Couple this with a ga15 TB and injectors, some port matching and a decent pipe plus mapping and you've got yourself a NA screamer.

Sorry if iv gone on a little here but I think valve diameter to lift ratio is a very important aspect of tuning a motor that is regularly over looked by many people.

P.S. My knowledge of cam duration and overlap etc isn’t as good as my knowledge of Diameter to lift ratio so I may be wrong about the duration of the 1.3 cams :(. However i'm happy to be corrected.
 
yes lift ratio,s are often neglected eh, which is why i usually recommend fitting only the 1.3 inlet cam to the 1.0,s, once those little exhaust valves get to about 6mm lift they max out on flow
 
seems like the 05A and 08A were fitted to the micra and sunny gtir, and the F06 and F10 only on the larger cars (mostly in 4WD guise), however if a 05A/08A can handle the power of a sunny i see no reason why the standard box wouldent take the power gains expected from my list of mods. dosent look like the F06/F10could be made to fit either as there designed for SR20DET engines etc which i beleive have a different bolt pattern. however, one of them fits the GA engines, which would be the same pattern?

only issues remaining are the T/B and ecu. was hoping you could answer this frank, do you know if a ga15 manual tb will work ok or any other potential upgrade.
also what can be done to alter the motronic ecu? cant seem to find any piggybacks suitable for it other than a £125 polish item which seems a bad idea lol? iv heard they can be re flashed but not tuned in real time.? is this correct?
 
you might be able to fit a QG t/b and maf and idle control valve DK (not the later drive-by-wire type) and Ed (fusion) said he can map the ecu,s iirc :)
 
Dinky DK said:
Taking Optimum rate of flow through the valve is achieved at (lift = 25% valve diameter).

Then

CG exhaust valve is 22.5mm Diameter so optimum flow is achieved at 5.625mm of lift. CG inlet valve is 27.5mm diameter so optimum flow is achieved at a lift of 6.875mm.
To fully utilise the flow available from an 8mm lift, valves would have to have a diameter of 32mm. Do you know what the largest valve diameter is that can be safely fitted without causing damage when cutting out the seats? GA16 Inlet valves are 30mm Diameter, therefore full flow is achieved at 7.5mm Lift and GA16 exhaust valves are 24mm achieving full flow at 6mm Lift.

All in all it would be best to have a CG13 inlet valve (27mm) in place of the STD exhaust valve and a custom valve with a head of 32mm on the inlet side operating via the 1.3 cams if the seats can be cut out that far without any operating issues. This would result in valves larger and freer flowing valves than come standard in a GA16. I would guess that standard 1.3 cam duration would be more than suitable making any 'Wild' cam profiles either redundant or very exciting dependant on your fuelling and ignition set up. Couple this with a ga15 TB and injectors, some port matching and a decent pipe plus mapping and you've got yourself a NA screamer.

Sorry if iv gone on a little here but I think valve diameter to lift ratio is a very important aspect of tuning a motor that is regularly over looked by many people.

P.S. My knowledge of cam duration and overlap etc isn’t as good as my knowledge of Diameter to lift ratio so I may be wrong about the duration of the 1.3 cams :(. However i'm happy to be corrected.
Click to expand...

The trouble with basing things on 0.25D is that it is purely theoretical and thus not representative of what you will experience in reality. The main limitation is that 0.25D assumes that the valve is fully un-shrouded, which is rarely he case in any engine and especially not in a CG engine due to the small bores. Therefore you will have to go a fair way beyond 0.25D valve lift in order to reach peak flow.
 
Thats good, was worried I might have hit a brick wall on the tb n ecu. Glad there are some options still :) maybe a ca item might also fit?

Good point lowrider. Hadnt considered that. Do you know the depth of the shrouding? Would like to adjust my calculations suitably so I can get prices for the headwork.
 
Cool cool. Anyone know for a p11 or similar air box for sale? The one I just won on ebay got canceled as seller lost the lid! Grr bin tryin to find one for months!
 
DK was speaking of larger valves Frank, which quickly proves to be a limit of the CG head in terms of room and the benefits become questionable at points depending on what you want to achieve. You will still need to lift beyond 0.25D due to port flow dynamics if you want to maximise flow but this greatly depends on what the end goal is unless you have a very very good port feeding the valve and can solely look at the valve being the only restriction, which just isn't the case here. A good engine guy 'mit flowbench' certainly helps to pave a clear patch from theory to reality.

Having been through a long development process on the CG heads, to all but those with very deep pockets looking for a class winning engines, there's far more bang-for-buck in optimising the port to work best with the standard valve. If you can bag a set of valves cheap, then it's worth a punt, but standard valves are good for a surprising amount of power both N/A and F/I if the head is well ported.

I'd stick with standard sized valves in all honesty, again unless you can bag something really cheap to make it worth your while using the standard seat inserts....
 
Qg tb looks like a good fit if I can find an auto one. Just need to check the sensor connectors. My cousin should be able to do the valve seats if I can get the valves made as hes a cnc engineer aslong as the seats are deep enough to be machined that much.

Have sent a few emails to nistune. They said the type 4 board is compatible with the late modle bosh ecu. They said the new type 5 is finished and is compatible with the half sized k11 ecu. So eitherway realtime tuning here I come :).
 
not the coilpack motronic type tho eh, and the 1/2 size ones are pre-nats
the QG t/b has a square footprint like the SR20 ones, and they share the same maf (and same plug as CGA3)
 
Damn it! Thats a shame! Was looking forward to learning to map myself. I take it I would need a conversion plate for the qg t/b to fit proprely? If the maf & pins are the same as cga3 I take it there not the same as the ones on my model.

Iv heard that the tb and maf on my car are also used on the mk4 golf which would open up some VAG upgrades to use. Not sure how reliable the source of this info is tho.
 
the QG t/b is 50mm, so you may as well fit the 60mm SR one tbh (middle)
and there,s a bosch maf thread with the part numbers etc, and yes same as yours

67461.jpg
 
So to use a square footprint tb il need a sandwich plate made up and a separate maf. Are there any other tbs that are direct replacement for my coilpack tb other than ga units? Would be happy with a ga unit if I can find an auto one
 
yours has a different footprint to the CG and GA, and different maf and idle control plugs too, the QG maf is mounted into a body that is fitted upstream from the t/b (simple rubber hoses)
you would need to fit your kick-down rod (or cable) to the throttle quadrant somehow eh
 
Ok i think i understand. so mine shares maf and idle control plugs with CGA3? but different footprint TB? please correct me if im wrong i get a little confused by the wealth of different nissan parts n what can fit where lol.
i would like to use a P11 airbox or simmilar so not sure an up stream mounted MAF would be a good idea. they need to be mounted after the airfilter or risk damage.
kick down rod should be easily set up using a small tca/ball joint, cable should be a simple fix with basic bicycle cable fixings :).
 
nah, yours is the same setup as the CGA3 (1.4) and shares the same maf and connector as the QG etc (maybe the same stepper motor type i/c/v too ?)
i had a CG auto t/b that had an extra quadrant on the end of the shaft, that pulled a kick-down cable i guess, i just removed the quadrant and refitted the nut and used it as a normal t/b.
the CG has a trapezoid footprint, the coilpack have a rectangle one, and QG and SR have a square one :)
 
oh my god i didnt think fitting a bigger tb would be such a headache! gunna need to make the adaptor plate then arent i :( did you have any running isues without the kickdown?
begining to wish i got a dizzy motor!
 
it was a t/b from an auto, that i used on a manual k11 :)
and my cut-off upstream CG maf was mounted into the airbox, so that i had the 60mm maf body and 60mm SR t/b
(actually, thats a QG one in the pic, but same difference :))

67002.jpg
 
cool cool, just browsing for ideas. Do you know if the RB20 TB is rectangular footprint? the look like it in pics but could be decieving
 

Similar threads

D
New Member
Replies
16
Views
2K
skymera
skymera
M
Dead K11 Micra 1.0 auto
Replies
3
Views
895
mungoscorner
M
G
1.0 Micra Mods for Racing
Replies
7
Views
2K
reflexuk
reflexuk
M
1.0 auto niggle
Replies
2
Views
948
micra-se
M
N
Cg13de mods
Replies
2
Views
2K
Nissan noob
N
Back
Top